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Yep, we're still here~Nov/Dec '02 mommas&babies~ - Page 6

post #101 of 647
rynna, i'm very familiar with kids that destroy and mess. in a different world like a long time ago it wouldn't be a big deal. i try to suck it up, see them as experiments, and focus on the fact that it is not destructive towards people. i think you have a choice to make here, whether to control him or not. controlling him means more vigilance and having an interfering issue with you and him. i think it is a battle you may be up for in a few months if you really want it. of course you can let him know it displeases you and show him what he cut or not. maybe a mess of water or flour everywhere would be less upsetting for you. but eliyahu is still very little, even though you have a tinier one. i'm impressed with his fine motor skills. it is a little thing that goes a long way. like it is related to reading words and people and him having control over his body is a power that my eldest especially lacks and is frustrating. the reason i have some clothes to send you is because my boys did not have those skills to harm their things (or even notice their clothes) and spent their energy attacking each other when little.

i'm going to get a job. i'm debating about getting a wig! i will probably end up waiting tables. i'm expecting to work 25 hours and make whatever it is i need, at least 1000 so that dh doesn't have to take the fairness meter out anymore. i called dh's parents and asked them to check on him. i also copied some of his friends' numbers to call them and get dh checked on so he doesn't feel so alone.

my rib still hurts when i think about it but is healing nicely, thanks for asking. my body is a little down these days........
post #102 of 647
Thread Starter 
I'm getting a real taste of being a mother of two now. My babies daddy left yesterday, back for his home, and he was helping me out a lot. the older baby wants attention, and the little one wants attention. They seem to sleep at the same time though. well the NB sleeps all the time.... I wish haeven was older when I had samaya, but that is not how it happened. It's a TOTAL juggling act.

Hopefully they will be good to each other. I used to fight with my brother "holy wars". It was not pretty.

Haeven is a little terror to her cousin elwynn. She will pull him around by the hair and push him, and throw (very heavy, dangerous things) at him. I just sit there and pull my hair out. I feel so guilty, cause elwynn is not my baby, and at this age, there is not much we can do via discapline(sp?) So we have to keep them apart, which is sad, because they love each other so much (funny, isn't it). I have tryed "time-out" with her, when it got REALLY bad one time. But she did not learn any lesson, cause she found something to play with.

I never wanted to do time-out's, hearing that they don't really work, but the way that haeven has hurt elwynn, she has to understand that is not acceptable. and if I get angry at her, and tell her it's not o.k., she just looks at me with a blank stare. The only thing that gets a reaction out of her, is when her dad, or my brother just look at her with the disapproving look. and then she will
post #103 of 647
i've been following along, but havent' had the energy to respond. the days have been long, and my emotions have been on the surface. this morning i cried, as i was so tired, and dd was over tired and not napping. it was as close to depression that i'd been in awhile, but after dd's 3.5 hour nap i felt better, as i was able to sleep a tiny bit.

casina- i have some words to say about neurontin but have to go now. i will be back....

post #104 of 647
ok, i'm back.

my brother, who is bi-polar- has taken neurotin. it is supposedly an anti convulsant, but has properties that have proven to be successful w/ cases of depression. (or was it anxiety? hmmmmm ) but in any case, i've read that the clinical trial cases were bogus, so many believe that is is not a useful drug. my brother did go off of it, but slowly. perhaps your dh can ween off it to avoid side effects?
in regards to having to get a job- how do you feel about this? is your husband up to the job of being a part time care giver to the kids? and what will the kids say, do you think? regardless, may you feel my s and feel your inner strength as you go thru this transition.

post #105 of 647

not much anything exciting here. Ava is doing swell. she is becoming quite fiesty and opinionated. She is talking like a crazy person. for some reasn it seems names have just strted to click. She is impressing all of Madelines friends when she squeals thier name when they walk in a room. 6-8 year olds really eat that up. And she sits around all day crying for papa. It is funny my other two kids are crazy about him and he about them but him and Ava have the closest relationship. it is very sweet. It also gives me leverage for babysitting "oh, Ava has been dying to see papa" He never says no :LOL

so anyway. we have started down the road to potty training but she could care. well, so far, for her whole life, every time she has gotten within 3 ft. of a potty someone has run up and shut the lid. So now when we sit her on it she stands up, shuts the lid and looks all proud that she knows exactly what to do with one of those things :LOL

thats it though.
post #106 of 647
actually, as anti - drug as i am, i think the neurontin did quite a bit for my dh's state of mind especially when he started it. he is slowly weaning off of it and is better today.

i went from despondent yesterday to feeling energized after realizing how much dh needed my help. i offered some specific work solutions to him, and i am now okay with the concept, and i think he is realizing that it would not make things easier. he would still have to work. i am offering either way to bring in some kind of income so that he doesn't feel so burdened by the responsibility. i'm just glad i feel assertive about all this.

mamajaza, this is the advice i liek to give the most, but i'll say it again. learn to use the sling, having samaya nurse and sleep in it. i will make you one or find one i'm not using if you measure your shoulder bone to your hip bone. i have pouches and ring ones. you too rynna! it is what saved me having clay. before clay was in the sling reed would just try to kill him. my emotional comfort in being a mother was greatly enhanced by using the sling at all times.

and the hitting. yes, they are too little and she can mind others but your disapproval is not the same thing as others and can interfere with your communication with her. you will have to take it as a compliment that she is so connected to you that your disapproval is a bizarre foreign concept in the land of always love. she is just experimenting and finds it fun and has no malice associated with it....yet. she will consider you getting upset an interesting reaction caused by her actions and my kids learned to enjoy getting a rise out of me. pretend to look the other way. hovering will not keep them from interacting. i have a dear friend where we have both decided we cannot really hang out much because of the toddler behaviour. now since haeven and elwynn are cousins and i assume you see each other often, you can try to let it run it's course. it will take a great deal of courage and both mammas having faith that they are okay, and possibly just leaving them alone for periods at a time and just coming when you hear crying. they can smell fear and your every vibe. if you even think there will be hurts they will try it. at least put a goofy sticker on her head before he comes over so you won't take her so seriously. with this same friend i got to where i was okay with her son pushing ruby and would have to take deep breathe and feel and show nothing or look occupied with something else. and we decided only the mother would comfort the hurt child and not pass judgment and be lighthearted and change the situation like by going into a different room and forget about what just happenned. but on low days the two would be fine until she entered the room. the vibe can be a big thing. focusing on things can make it bigger. they can work it out if they have no audience. either she will tire of it or he will assert himself. it will depend on the personalities of all concerned. this is a very tough thing that requires cooperation and respect from both mammas but it can be done. generally they will not be hurt badly physically, especially since both are walking okay. at least they are about the same size and strength. and they have no malice and little memory so there is no emotional hurt for you to worry about for elwynn, but for mamafern. they are both sweet babies and you must remind yourselves of that and expect and envision that things will turn out fine.

i guess y'all may think i'm loony now. and i am!
post #107 of 647
No, I don't think you're looney Think you make lots of sense

I'm glad you're feeling better today ... yeah, I also can't imagine my SO telling me to get a job (and meaning it). I told him from the start that if I get pregnant, I'm not working... and I have haven't since Calista's birth. Because I know that he is able to make enough for us... he's just been slacking the last few years. He's finally come out of that 'haze' and starting to prioritize right.

I hope things work out well for you all! I've waited tables for a few years myself... know all about that... could be nice, fun... Would your dh be watching the kids while you work?

BTW, I'm going through your webshots photos Love the birth ones (naturally )! Well, love all of them
post #108 of 647
Originally Posted by Mona
my brother, who is bi-polar- has taken neurotin. it is supposedly an anti convulsant, but has properties that have proven to be successful w/ cases of depression. (or was it anxiety? hmmmmm ) but in any case, i've read that the clinical trial cases were bogus, so many believe that is is not a useful drug.
Anti-convulsant drugs are used to treat bipolar disorder because someone discovered (through MRI, I believe) that brain activity during a manic episode is often similar to that observed during certain kinds of siezures. Thus, they are used not only to treat acute manic episodes but to prevent those episodes in the future. They are not generally good at treating or preventing depressive episodes, which is why anti-convulsant therapy for bipolar disorder is most often used in conjunction with anti-depressant therapy.

For some people anti-convulsant therapy is extremely effective in managing bipolar; for others (myself included) it does little or nothing. I'm pretty sure that there's research being done to find drugs that can treat bipolar disorder, but it's very difficult because of the nature of the disease. Brain activity and chemistry change rapidly and are unpredictable, particularly in type I bipolar disorder, so it's hard to know which drug is going to work when.

You know, I wish I could look at the holes in Eli's clothing (this isn't the first time, by any stretch), or even the fact that he always manages to get to the scissors regardless of where I put them, and think "Wow, he's really coordinated," but I always get irritated. Some messes are more impressive to me than others. I was very impressed, for example, when I learned that Eli was strong enough and coordinated enough to turn on the outside water faucet. I didn't want it on, but I was still pretty impressed. Flour and water aren't nearly so bad, that just forms a water-soluble concrete and I can totally live with that! :LOL I'm going to have to get some flour, thanks for the reminder.

I'd heard that fine motor coordination is often correlated to early reading ability, but I never really bought it because I learned to read very early and couldn't color inside the lines or cut neatly along a line until I was around 11. In fact, I remember hearing my first grade teacher tell my mother that I'd have trouble learning to read because I colored outside the lines. My mother gave her a nasty look; I had been reading for four years when I started first grade, and could read anything that was put in front of me and understand it. I have a sister who could draw when she was 2 years old, but she didn't learn to read until she was nearly 6 and even then had issues (dyslexia).

I've tried to nurse Rivkah in the sling, but it's impossible for me. I think my boobs are too big; whenever I try, Rivkah pops off and cries because she can't breathe. Maybe when she's a little bit bigger I'll be able to manage it, but because I'm short and my boobs are huge, if I have the sling adjusted so that she could breathe and nurse at the same time, she's practically in my lap and I have to hold her anyway, so I don't even bother anymore. I love letting her sleep in the sling (like right now! ) but sometimes it's nice to let her sleep and put her down so that I can move a little more quickly. I have to put Eli into a baby cage to manage this, because he likes to share his favorite toys with her, none of which are appropriate for BooBah.
post #109 of 647

I posted a while about about the hitting. Georgia was so bad at our playgroup I was close to not going (and I love those women and children) I don't know what happened or what I did but she seems to be over the hump with it. Maybe it is just a phase and will pass. One thing i tried was when she was hitting to tell her we don't hit people but quickly give her something she could hit like a drum.

I was a little worried about this week b/c I have been away every day from early afternoon until past midnight at the democtratic convention and I thought she would act out a little. I prepared for it by keeping every monring free and spending lots of time on the floor playing with her. She seems a little more clingy to me in the mornings but Andrew has had no problems with her in the afternoon or night. Last night he put her to bed and left my sister with her so he could come see Edwards speak and she woke up crying for me. My sister was able to calm her down until we got home which was pretty soon after. This morning she is more clingy but it's only one more day.

Anyone have any fun playtime suggestions? I would like to have some new fun things to do with her starting firday to reconnect.


post #110 of 647
Thread Starter 
casina~ what kind of sling do you suggest? I find slings very hard to figure out. Thank-you for the advice on fighting. You know, I would be O.K. with letting H and E battle it out, but I don't think fern would be. I guess I should ask her. the thing is that elwynn weighs about 10!!! lbs less than haeven, so there is significant strength differences. And haeven is a head taller than elwynn.

abranger~I hope this is a phase too.
post #111 of 647
casina and eilonwy- thanks for the heads up on the neurotin. it's been awhile since i'd read about it. casiana- why did your dh decide to go off it if it was working well? if he's into herbs, i know a lot of people who had success w/ st. john's wort ticture. the quality has to be good, but it works for many people.

for those w/ experience w/ bipolar- i know it is somewhat heridetary, but don't know how if follows the family line. my grandmother was bi-polar, my brother, and of course i'm worried about my dd. my mom said that she never noticed anything w/ my brother until he was in adolescence, but back then she didn't know what to look for either. i think the way they raised him, controlling w/ lots of limitations, did not help his temperment, and led to the development of many distructive patterns for dealing w/ things. so i think had he been raised differently, the bipolar would have surfaced differently as well. i guess what i'm saying is that i know it has to do w/ chemicals, but i also strongly believe it has to do w/ internal patterning and how you cope w/ the world. i hope that makes sense. anyway, i guess it is just something i will have to keep an eye on w/ kathrynn.
any insights would be welcome.

abranger- how awesome that you've been at the convention!!!i haven't even had the chance to read the paper these days, so i feel totally out of it politically.
as far as playtime suggestions- does she like water? dd loves the hose, and being outside. so i 'd recommend that, or maybe a hike? she also loves animals, so we try to go on walks to see different animals. of course, i live in the country, so that helps. :LOL

casina- i'm glad things are going pretty good. sounds like positive developments....

my goal for this moon is to establish firmer boundries w/ my dh- tell him what i need and hold him to it. in the past i have stated my needs, but then let it go when the needs are not met, making excuses for him, or just not putting energy into getting my needs met. well, it is making me one burnt out frazzeled mama, and not helping our relationship either. while i was on "vacation" i could not believe the lack of boundries that my dh's family had w/ various issues. it made me want to really work on that in myself.

gotta run...

post #112 of 647
Jasanna I would recommend checking out http://www.peppermint.com for slings. She carries a wide variety of slings and discusses the differences between them. I personally like a pouch over a ring sling because there is no adjustment needed. My son is a holy terror as well at times. He is in the pushing, grabbing, shoving, and hitting phase right now and I cringe anytime we go somewhere and there are kids there. I never know how he is going to react. Some days he is a perfect little gentleman and other days he acts like he is possessed by the devil himself. I know he will get over it soon.
post #113 of 647
Thread Starter 

My thoughts on "bi-polar"

I think that bi-polar and other mental illnesses are just a syptom of the sickness of society. I think that people with these illnesses are really just very sensitive, amazing human beings, who are overcome by the stangnancy that is so prevalent in our society.

I have a cousin who was "diagnosed" with bi-polar, but he doesn't feel that he has it any more. He thinks that it really just has to do with his diet (avoiding allergens, such as corn), emotional blockages, and toxins in his system. He needed compassion to get through the rough times.

In the native american world, people with "mental illnesses" were given a special place in the community, and were seen as shamens.

There is also really good results for many people by doing full body cleanses with herbs and clean water.

I really feel sorry for anyone who has gotten the "mental illness" label. Because I don't think it is permanent, yet it's hard to shake the label once you've gotten it.
post #114 of 647
Mamajaza- I pretty much agree w/ you, although i do think for some people there really is a chemical imbalance that goes beyond the external. but for most, i think that balancing out the internal and external can bring one to a place where they can deal w/ society functionally.
bah, dd is climbing on me....

post #115 of 647
Originally Posted by *Mamajaza*
I think that bi-polar and other mental illnesses are just a syptom of the sickness of society. I think that people with these illnesses are really just very sensitive, amazing human beings, who are overcome by the stangnancy that is so prevalent in our society.
I've been bipolar since I was about three years old; I was formally diagnosed at 14. In some respects I agree that people with mental illnesses are in general very sensitive, and I agree that there is an environmental component but I don't think that it's 100% or even 50% environmental. My brain is different from someone who doesn't have this disease, and it was rigged to grow differently. I think that had I had a different kind of childhood, the onset of illness may have been later and less severe, but I still think it would have happened. I've tried all kinds of things, herbs, meditation, you name it I've done it, from the most mundane allopathic stuff to the most far out woo woo stuff. Right now, I'm in remission and have been for a few years, but I know better than to think that it's permanent and I am hypervigilant about my emotional and mental state; I can tell when a true manic episode is coming on or I'm in the midst of one, even though I can't stop it. I can tell the difference between a real depression and something temporary/situational/hormonal. I've become very attuned to my brain, and I maintain a constant awareness of my "level", because I don't want to get psychotic again if I can avoid it. (Anyone who says they're "enjoying every minute" of insanity has never truly experienced it, I guarantee it. ).

Yes, bipolar disease tends to run in families: if an immediate family member has bipolar (or any mental illness) you're more likely to develop it. I can't remember the exact statistic, but I actually know where to find it, so feel free to pm me. I do believe that environment can have an impact on severity and age of onset of bipolar disorder, but again I don't think that's even close to being the whole story. I think that even in the safest, healthiest environment you can imagine, I would have had problems with bipolar disorder from a fairly early age (though probably not three). It isn't "permanent", but it does come and go often in cycles and wiith long periods of remission. People can go for years without a single manic episode and then start having them again for no apparent reason... Even though I haven't been sick in a long time, I still maintain an awareness because I know that it could pop back up again anytime.
post #116 of 647
thanks eilonwy for taking the time to write all that out....
pm'ing you.
post #117 of 647
*solsticemama*-- yes and no to the housing question. We have not been able to find a home of our own mostly b/c I am having a hard time finding a job. However, we have been accepted into a women/children's shelter and I will start calling on sat. to find out about availability. They don't save a place for you; you just have to call everyday until there is a space available. I can look on the positive side and see it as a way to save money and possibly get into some cheap housing once we are out (3 months). But, it is also hard to accept. It is one of those things I just never thought I'd do. It will be a huge lifestyle change and I am afraid my oldest will want to stay with her dad if she is not comfortable there. For whatever reason she doesn't like it where we are now and chooses to stay with him every once and awhile as it is. It make me feel like a bad mama to not be able to provide a place she is comfortable in .
post #118 of 647
so much to say and i should be in bed. answer: dh was prescribed neurontin for his herniated disc pain. we have neither been diagnosed with mental illness though we "could" be since we are sensitive dynamic people but for the most part are not overly sick. i hope that sounds reasonable.....his digestion is now shot and he wonders what else is off kilter and he doesn't want to be on any drugs anyway and feels ready to be in control that's why he has decided to work more even though our income will drop when worker's comp cuts us off. meanwhile, bipolar or not, his feelings of well being are definitely altered by weaning off the drug. and as much as i hate to admit it, he has been overall more pleasant to live with this past year because of it.

labels are weird. i decided to look for this toy that reed loves since his birthday is coming up. they are called pop tubes. i suddenly end up with a search with sites and arrows pointing to apraxia, asperger's, sensory dysfunction, adhd, etcetera etcetera. labels i have always avoided for my child. and the toys suggested for these labeled kids are, of course, the kinds of things he can play. lots of tactile. lots of motion. weighted clothing.

i don't know about what level of coordination is related to reading like coloring in the lines and such. so far reed will make a scribble a few times a year if goaded. he's almost six. ruby can color better than him like she knows that if she doesn't press it down too tight it will make a better line. i watched her expertly riffling the pages in a book today. but he can push letters on a computer keyboard. he's motivated to do it over and over and i think it relates to him needing an exact sense of control.

i have many thoughts on mental illness but they are rambly and it is late. i do tend to agree with you, mamajaza, at least for the new general prozac nation. right now i'm kind of mad at a local friend for her funk. which is of course not helpful. it's a long story......

i remember with the fresh babies, that i would lay them horizontally with their feet towards the load bearing shoulder. and to nurse, i would pop their head out so that the sling edge was between the head and back and support it with my forearm. with clay i was happier having some sort of padding there until i got more comfortable.

heather, you are getting close huh?

hugs to you lilmiss.....

p.s. my dh said nothing today about me getting a job. this evening i thought, what, so now i'm thankful to do all the housework? sometimes i baffle myself.
post #119 of 647
Originally Posted by casina
p.s. my dh said nothing today about me getting a job. this evening i thought, what, so now i'm thankful to do all the housework? sometimes i baffle myself.
:LOL i have had this same thought after discussions with my dh about my getting a job....

hugs to everyone.

We are off in the morning for Cali., so let me say that I hope you all have a great week. and wish us luck!
post #120 of 647
Division of labor in our home is pretty orthodox. Tho dh has taken on the dishes for the past year and a half which I'm so grateful for since the size our kitchen means they need to be washed at each meal. Not that this happens but it means I can look at the pile without feeling the need to do something about it. Even tho I'd like not to see a pile of dirty dishes in the morning.

Lilmiss's mama s, wishing I had a lovely space to offer you and your girls.

Labels are useful as long as you don't believe them. Same goes for coloring inside the lines.

Punk, safe travels.
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