Holding Time

[jempd]

Has anyone ever heard of this? I stumbled on the book, Holding Time, by Martha Welch. I'm posting it here because it is really about a technique, not a book. I've searched a few forums to find any mention of it but haven't. I'm surprised, as it seems to fit in with AP so much. Welch mentions John Bowlby as one of her main inspirations, and Jean Liedloff too. In her book she discusses attachment at some length and in fact this technique that she's come up with is alleged to directly address breaks in attachment, or sort of 'shore up' attachment.

Anyway, the reason that I'm asking is that I read the entire book yesterday and got really excited about it. Because it it does what it says it will do, it would be a huge help to us, as a few incidents have cropped up lately where ds hit another kid and has lately been hittin his father. Of course it's upsetting and I can tell telling him how upset it makes me and how it hurts etc. isn't really getting us anywhere. BUT, I am wondering, can it really be as great as it sounds? It sounds too good to be true. So I am wondering if anyone has ever tried it, or knows someone who has tried it. It's a very specific technique, and though it doesn't sound too hard, not sure whether you would need to see it done or be taught it for it to be really effective. Martha Welch has a web site (she runs an org. called The Mothering Center which has a web site) and you can buy an instructional cd rom but it's $99.

I tried it a little bit last night as ds, upon being taken in from the playground, was semi-tantruming i.e. chucking things, slumping on the floor crying. However, when he struggled to get down from my lap I didn't hang on till he got calm, which you're supposed to do. He was struggling really hard and I didn't feel committed enough to it to hang on.

As far as I can tell, the 'holding time' is very similar to holding a child who is having a tantrum.

I would love to hear from anyone, even if you haven't done it but have an opinion from reading about it.

[Pynki]

Well we did it with ds2.. He's very......... intense.. I didn't know there was a method name for it.. He would throw headbanging on concrete floor temper tantrums.. So, to keep him from hurting himself.. I would hold him.. Usually upstairs on the bed.. It was bigger and easier to contain him.. I would hold him.. not tightly,but enough to keep him in place.. I would tell him as soon as he calmed down I would let him go, but I was not going to allow him to keep behaving that way.. The 1st time we did it... It took like 40 minutes for him to calm down.. He wanted to be very destructive.. And I mean destructive.. He wanted to rip things and hit people, and band his head against the walls, and throw himself down the stairs, and on the floor.. I wasn't allowing that anymore.. So I held him.. repeating calmly in his ear that I knew he was mad, and I loved him, and as soon as he calmed down I would let him go..

The 1st time took 40 minutes.. The next time the next day took 30.. Then later that week it took 15.. Then he didn't do it for a week or so.. And when he threw his tantrum (and they were ALWAYS like the above listed one) I held him again in the same way.. It took 30 minutes again.. But they decreased in frequency, and the amount of time I held him before he could calm himself decreased to.. Now at 4 if he has a melt down like that (and on occasion he still does.. Like I said.. He's a very intense child) I will hold him and he is calm in less than 5 minutes..

I know this has been discussed in the GD forum before.. Part of the problem some of the mommas have is that you are touching your child when they don't want to be touched and physically imposing your will on them.. In the same manner as a time out..

I don't feel like in our family that the holding is a bad way of dealing with our ds2.. But I can see why it could be harmful to some children..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan

[Piglet68]

It almost sounds like some kinds of physical therapy to me. Maybe some children, like Pynki's, have some kind of sensory "confusion" (for lack of a better word), and maybe the holding helps.

I suppose I wouldn't do this unless my child was like Pynki's - getting out of control and risking hurting him/herself.

Hey Pynki...didn't you get hit/whacked while you were doing this and he's flailing around? How did you handle that?

[pamamidwife]

I used this with my dd, who would get very violent towards herself and everyone/thing around her during tantrums. I have to say it took a lot from US to do this (I used to walk out of the room and try to ignore it), but it worked wonderfully. There were many times that I could see that she would have a build up of intensity and this would help release it.

I really liked it. I'm not sure how AP it is, but then again, I'm not into doing things by the book all the time. It certainly felt like the right thing to me.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by Piglet68

It almost sounds like some kinds of physical therapy to me. Maybe some children, like Pynki's, have some kind of sensory "confusion" (for lack of a better word), and maybe the holding helps.

I suppose I wouldn't do this unless my child was like Pynki's - getting out of control and risking hurting him/herself.

Hey Pynki...didn't you get hit/whacked while you were doing this and he's flailing around? How did you handle that?

Sometimes.. It wasn't him hitting me when I was holding him with his fists.. It was usually him banging his head into me.. My lips got swollen some.. I learned to rear back alot when he was in his wind up... We were usually on my queen size bed, so I had a lot of room to hold him, but so we could still move around as needed.. I would become very rigid through my arms when he was really flailing.. Not squeezing him ever, but holding him the same as always, but very confining.. When he would ease up on his fit i would become more soft and yeilding.. It sounds awful writing it out, but it was a last ditch effort that worked best of all, and still works today if it's needed..

I do personally wonder if he has some intergretion issues.. I've known his dad since dh was a child, and the 1st time i read about Asperger's it sounded JUST like dh as a child, and to a point now.. So I think DH probably has a light case of Aspergers, and I wonder if ds2's behavior and personality quirks are somehow related..

I would NEVER use the holding technique on ds1.. He is soo much more mild mannered and sensitive that I think it would break his spirit,and that is NOT what we try to do with the holding.. Ds2 has problems getting back his self-control, so I try to help him until he's in a state of mind where he can..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan

[EFmom]

I did this with my older daughter (still do, once in a great while). She used to have the most unbelievable tantrums--they could go for a good three to four hours at a time and we were starting to really be concerned when they were happening on a daily basis and sometimes more than once a day. It helped a great deal, both with the tantrums and with her behavior and happiness in general.

It is NOT fun to do. Dd has always been incredibly strong and it is a major challenge to restrain her. She would try very hard to hurt us during the holdings. After the first one, I looked and felt like a battered mama the next day. I've learned how to hold her so that her hands cannot scratch me. I worry about hurting her, even though I know that the way I am holding her can't hurt her.

However, it was so worth doing. Her rages greatly diminished, both in duration and in frequency after the very first holding. The change was pretty dramatic. She can communicate much better with me. One of the key things about doing holding time is that the child (and the parent) are free to say anything they want, and she would say some pretty vile things. I think she had some bad stuff bottled up, and she was unable to let it out before. Now she is much more likely to just tell me when something is bothering her.

While she would fight me as hard as she could during the holdings, she also instinctively knew they were good for her. After that first time, if she found herself getting too out of control, she would actually ask me for holding time. She still does once in a great while.

While Martha Welch seems to advocate that holding time is appropriate for all children, I wouldn't feel called to do it unless there were real behavioral or emotional issues. I tried it on the advice of an acquaintance who is a psychologist. My dd was adopted, and while I don't want to attribute every childhood quirk to her adoption, I think it may have contributed to her issues, and I also think holding time gave her some additional security.

[Pynki]

Rages..

That is EXACTLY what I would call them.. Tantrums do not do them justice.. DS2 never tried to bitme or hit me or pinch me.. He was trying to push me away and straining to be free of me to throw himself down and bash himself about.. I have never figuired out where these rages came from, but I am glad they are greatly diminished.. After the 1st holding he calmed down and we just sorta laid on the bed together.. Me still with my arms around him, but not "HOLDING" him.. He said he was tied and went to sleep.. It was like a switch was flipped that day.. He was a completely different child.. And everytime we did it.. It got better..

Warm Squishy Feelings..
Dyan

[jempd]

Actually as I understand it, the technique is not JUST holding, and there's supposed to be 3 phases: confrontation, resistance and/or rejection, resolution. The part I have trouble with is the resistance part. If your kid is screaming to be let go and struggling against you with all his strength, you have to really believe in it to keep hanging on to them. According to the book you're also supposed to maintain very strong, steady eye-contact and, very importantly, express your feelings to the kid as honestly as you can. This is supposed to make the kid feel that he can express HIS feelings and therefore they get released. It's like some kind of intense primal scream therapy almost. It's also supposed to be not just for kids who are having acting-out problems but for those who are withdrawn, for babies who are not responsive, etc. I'm just saying what the theory is. It's supposed to be very AP, or anyway the author identifies it as attachment itself and says that's why she thought it up, from working in training as a psychiatrist with autistic children who were suffering from lack of attachment. She feels it is beneficial to all children, average behaving or not, and all ages, infants through adolescents.

What reading about it brought up for me was: I believe I have attachment parented my son to the best of my ability but it made me doubt that and think maybe he wasn't as attached as I'd thought. The old I-went-back-to-work-too-early (and therefore damaged the attachment between ds and me) feeling came back and also I have to admit teeth-brushing and bed-time are not exactly conflict-free. But I also feel, going by what this book posits, that every day my son and I have some 'hooking up time' i.e. he nurses first thing in the morning and first-thing when I get home from work so he gets this solid block of touching time twice a day. Even if we don't talk about our feelings or 'get our angries out' (phrase used in the book, attributed to a child who does 'holding time'. Many case histories are told that sound almost miraculous. So . . . it's one of those things on the one hand I want to say, Great! Sign me up! Show me how to do it! And on the other hand, I am naturally skeptic about something from a book, and that sounds like such a panacea.

I think, by the way, that holding a kid that goes through really intense tantrums makes a lot of sense wether it's with any kind of technique or not. It's instinct, like in Pynki's case, that leads to a response to a need.

At any rate, it's a quick read, the author writes well and is very well-versed re: attachment parenting and does go into detail re: birth, attachment of newborn, amount of touching babies get. Just as proponents of AP say, she says that the terrible twos, adolescents being miserable, etc. is NOT normal behavior but is just accepted as such because it's so widespread and can be avoided or lessened by better attachment.

This is completely an aside: the photographs are by Mary Ellen Mark, the famous art photographer, which surprised me as they are illustrations. There are many photographs of the same kid going through the different phases of a holding time session, so that you can see the expressions on the parent's and child's faces, the postures, and so on. One of the things I found most convincing (on the pro side) was the loving, tender expressions on the kids' faces in the final phase, resolution, and the obvious closeness. Remarkable in context of seeing the same kid in the other phases where you see the arching backs, faces contorted with screams, tears, hair pulling, etc.

[EFmom]

With my child, the actual holdings were physically much harder than I would have anticipated from the book. She was three when we started doing this and I couldn't believe how hard it was to restrain her, even though I outweigh her by about a ton and a half. My dd also kept up the resistance phase much longer than the book would have made me expect--I think we went a good two hours the first time before she even thought about winding down.

She describes basically two positions for holding, either with the child straddling your lap, facing you or sitting across your lap. My dd wouldn't stay put for either, and she could easily get out of the holding that way no matter what I did. And establishing and maintaining eye contact is not as easy as Welch makes it out to be with a child who is determined to avoid it.

And the resolution phase is not always as idyllic as Welch portrays it. We have gotten to that intense closeness, face stroking and loving up that she describes on a few occasions, and that's been great. But sometimes my dd falls asleep or sometimes she just stops struggling but still won't open her eyes to make contact.

It doesn't greatly seem to matter, however. Even if we don't get to the full resolution, it helps my dd.

I have to admit, I didn't like the book and if it hadn't been recommended to me, and if I weren't getting worried about dd, I wouldn't have done it. I find Welch to be unbearably sexist. Dh and I have a much different family structure than Welch seems to write for. We share parenting very equally. My dh is as likely to do holding times as I am and it is every bit as beneficial. I agree that there is almost a "primal wound" quality to the book, and I'm not a believer in that.

[EnviroBecca]

This, or some form of it, is a technique I thought of on my own when babysitting as a teenager; I've since read that some "experts" recommend it. I did it because I needed to put a quick stop to certain behaviors but didn't feel right about spanking (one slap on the bottom was my parents' technique for stopping out-of-control behavior; they did it only in the most extreme situations) even the family whose parents said I should.

These were not kids with serious behavior issues, just normal "hyper" moments. Some examples:
*dancing on edge of bathtub w/toothbrush in mouth
*grabbing cat by tail and yanking really hard
*jabbing sister in eyes.
I didn't resort to holding unless the kid had ignored several verbal requests to stop or had repeatedly stopped and started again. What I did was to firmly and suddenly grab the kid from behind, pinning both arms against the body; if the kid was small enough, I sat down on the floor and turned myself into a "human cage" by wrapping my legs around him too. I said firmly, "I can't let you do that. I'm going to hold you until you calm down." Then I said nothing further and held as still as possible (even if I was being smacked in the PMSing breasts by a hard little head : ) until the kid calmed down. It usually took 5-15 minutes and ended with the kid crying. I felt bad about "making" them cry but saw it as a better way than out-of-control dangerous behavior for them to release tension.

Once, a 4-year-old on whom I'd used this tactic before was getting ready for bed when he suddenly purposely knocked over a huge tub of Legos across his bedroom floor. We picked them all up. Then he did it again. I said he'd have to pick them up in the morning. He said it couldn't wait because when he got up to go to the bathroom in the night he'd hurt his feet on the Legos. We were starting to pick them up again (I was planning to put the tub out of his reach when we were done) when he jumped up and threw a stack of books onto the floor. Before I could react, he bellowed, "You have to hold me!!" so I did. After a few minutes he relaxed and said, "I like it when you hold me." I don't know what to make of that one--did he think I wouldn't hold/hug/cuddle him unless he misbehaved? or was he just expressing a preference for being held over being spanked or yelled at? (I tried asking him, but he didn't answer clearly before he fell asleep in my arms.)

Anyway, I don't know that I think it's a really great technique...but it was effective for me with half a dozen different kids 2-8 years old. It belongs in the "last resort" column, after gentler approaches have failed, IMO.

[eilonwy]

When my brother was an infant, he was very rigid and unresponsive; my mother feared that he might develop autism and did what instinctively seemed right to her at the time. She swaddled him as tightly as she could manage and held him and talked to him even though he screamed. He's never been what you'd call "emotionally available", but he's definately not autistic. Mom thinks that this is because she held him so tightly and often as a baby.

I used to do this with a little boy I'd babysit for. He would go into these hysterical screaming fits if he didn't get exactly what he wanted, kicking and hitting and biting, etc. His mother was never able to deal with it; she chalked it up to his being a boy and would half-heartedly try to defend herself against his attacks. I, on the other hand, wouldn't tolerate it. I would sit down wherever I was, wrap my arms around him and say "look at me" over and over in a very calm voice. Eventually, he'd calm down and look me in the eye and we'd talk. I noticed that it was on these especially rough days that he was most likely to beg me to stay after his parents got home. "I love you, please don't leave," over and over again. I often did stay a bit later, sometimes even bathing him and putting him to bed.

I've got no clue where I learned it, it just came to me instinctively. It worked very well.

One of my nieces has sensory integration disorder and pervasive developmental disorder (an autistic spectrum disorder) and will calm down almost *instantly* if held like this; I've never seen it take more than 45 seconds. She also used to ask to be strapped into her carseat. Her OT said that sometimes kids with SID/PDD have a hard time "organizing" themselves and that deep pressure is very calming and relaxing to them. I later saw an autistic woman on TV who had invented a "hugging machine" where kids could climb in and pull a lever and be squished between two boards, as hard or as softly as they liked. My niece would *love* being in one of those!

All that said, I would never use this technique on Eli; he's way too sensitive. I think he'd freak out if he was restrained against his will. Often when he's very upset he hugs me very tightly and then I hug him too, and he calms down, but if he's trying to get away from me it's because he *needs* to be away from me. He calms down much more quickly if I make no effort to restrain him against his will.

[jempd]

Well thanks all, for replying.

EFMom, that's very interesting. I am not surprised to hear that the resistance phase took longer and that resolution was not always as great as depicted in the book--I am sure the author wanted to present the best possible scenarios and most impressive cases. I too raised an eyebrow at some sexism--mainly how relegated to the backseat the father is--but chalked it up to her coming from a classic psychiatric background which I believe is sexist.

As for other holding described here, even if not exactly the same technique, it has to have some of the same physiological/psychological (whatever it is) effects or the results wouldn't be so similar. I think a lot of it is the pressure, and some of it is the intense zeroing-in on the child and helping them by absorbing some of their feelings too intense for them to handle.

That's Temple Granden, eilonwy, I think is who you're talking about. She has written some amazing books about being autistic.

And EnviroBecca I've found that what you describe, as I've done more or less the same, is helpful too, more so in a way for me than for my child as I am trying to not react by yelling, throwing stuff myself, etc. Also to keep it from escalating. After reading these posts I am more of a mind to incorporate some of what I think this is, and not take it so whole-hog. If things get worse with ds I'll consider really trying to do it but don't feel as motivated as I did the other day (ds has had good days since then). And I completely agree that it depends on the kid--not for all kids by any means and the author did not say that there are some kids who are too sensitive for it but I feel as commonsense it must be so. I mean there aer kids with SID for whom it would be frightening and counterproductive. For my kid, who craves pressure and touch, it's very different. But SID goes both ways.

[sugarmoon]

i have worked w/ emotionally disturbed kids in a group home and as a case manager for families who adopted kids w/ attachment disorder, so this is all very familiar to me. It think that it can work well for the right type of kid, as most pp'ers have pointed out. I just want to caution that if you are struggling to hold onto a kid, it is VERY easy to accidentally hurt them. If you are using this technique regularly and have a stronger/bigger/older kiddo and struggle to hold them, I'd suggest getting some type of training in restraint (not sure how much detail there is on this in the Welch book, I haven't read it in a long time).

Quickly, I will give a few of the basic pointers, but it is really much better ot have it shown to you.

1. never hold a limb above and below a joint -- this can easily cause breakage as the child struggles

2. if you have the childs arms crossed in front of them and are holding their wrists/forearms, be sure that the wrists are locked UNDER the elbows. This prevent possible shoulder dislocation, and also makes the hold much more secure. You can hold a small child in your lap like this, and then put your legs over their legs. You don't get eye contact this way, but it is safe and secure.

[famousmockngbrd]

This thread is so interesting.

So, there's a difference between holding a kid to keep him from knocking over his Legos for the 4th time in a row, like EnviroBecca described, and holding a kid who is totally out of control and dangerous, right? It seems like a kid who is hysterical NEEDS to be held, while the kid who is being held because he won't stop pulling the kid's tail is experiencing more of a consequence. That "hugging machine" is so odd - it makes me think there is something physically askew in them that is making them feel crazy, and pressure somehow makes it right...? Is it even about getting emotionally connected or is it more of a physical process? Those of you who have done it - why do you think it worked?

[jempd]

Gus's mom v. good point to bring up. I know Welch said something about tucking the kid's arms/hands under your armpits, if sitting on your lap facing you. Wow, what an awful thought, that you might break a child's limb.

And famousmkngbird, I don't know! I've asked OTs before--why does stroking a child's arm with those surgical brushes get them to calm down and be able to concentrate? Why does jumping up and down on a trampoline help some kids to be able to speak? I've heard theories re: brain connections and synapses etc--in fact the answers to these questions are I believe rooted in the very reason that attachment (touching) is so important i.e. why do babies who are not held or touched fail to thrive and develop . . . so it's a question with a very large scope. Much is just being discovered about it recently--the short answer I believe is that not that much is known relatively about how the brain works/develops. And I can't point you in a good direction right off the top of my head without doing a little research first. The hugging machine that Temple Grandin built and the discovery that autistic people often benefit from some kind of 'squeezing' or other holding/pressure, is fascinating and I'm sure if you poke around there are pretty good theories for why this is.

[eilonwy]

Famousmockingbird, there's a book about SID called "The Out-of-Sync Child" which might answer some of your questions. A lot of it is still theoretical, but the basic idea is that in many cases autism and SID go hand in hand, so a lot of autistic people respond very well when they can get some help with the SID.