Parenting as a survivor of abuse

[Serenity Now]

Do you think we could have a support thread? I think we face special issues when it comes to parenting, especially since we are using a child centered approach.

I hope this doesn't get too long. My mother is mentally ill, so her ideas of reality are very skewed. I grew up never knowing what actually happened, and what didn't happen. Like I'd mention a time when we went to the zoo or something and my mother would tell me that it never happened, and then yell at me for making things up. She would lie to my dad about things that I said, and he would force me to apologize for something that I never did in the first place. One day she was June Cleaver, the next I was hiding under my bed because I thought she was going to kill me. All of this became even worse when she got hooked on drugs, and her psychosis seemed to come out even more. She always told me that I was manipulative, a liar, and that she knew I was trying to kill her so her actions against me were in self defense.

To say that I am socially an outcast is an understatment, I have no social skills what-so-ever because my mother never had friends, and never allowed me to have any either. I was never allowed to leave the house except for school, or take any calls. I am trying hard for my daughter to make friends, but I don't know where to start, or how to act. I'm worried she will grow up socially isolated because of my shortcomings.

I still have a hard time knowing what is real, I seem to forget things so much, and my behavior towards my daughter changes everyday. I don't know how much of that is normal, like everyone does it, and how much of it is me turning into my mother. I don't know what are acceptable levels of frustration and anger. I feel like one time is too much. But then I can't live up to that standard.

I feel lazy and self-absorbed. I get bored playing with my daughter, and it seems like I need so much "me" time just to function. Like now I should be cleaning since she's asleep, but I'm so hungry, and dirty, and sad that I just want to take some time for me to eat, and shower.

The bottom line is, I don't know what a good parent is. When she was an infant it was easy, I breastfed her, cosleept, and just spent all of my days gazing into her sweet face. But now that toddlerhood has shown up, I'm having a hard time knowing how to balance my raging feelings and gentle discipline. I want to never yell at her, or belittle her. But I fear that it's impossible to break that cycle of abuse I hear so much about.

I'm hoping someone here can commiserate and tell me that they have the same feelings, I know no one in real life who was abused.

[Heavenly]

I completely feel the same way! My childhood was completely messed up. We were dirt poor (ie. my mother scrounging in garbage cans to find tins cans to trade in to buy food), my dad was VERY verbally and emotionally abusive and my mom was undiagnosed bipolar so she was either depressed or irritable all the time (mostly depressed). I too am a social outcast, I have no friends and I really worry about my kids making friends. I have been diagnosed bipolar as well. I totally understand when you say you can't relate to your daughter. I don't like playing with my kids either and I would rather just be alone. And I have to fight so hard to be calm but I know I snap at them and yell at them so much. How DO you break the cycle of abuse? I can read GD books every day and I still can't put it into practice.

"I don't know what are acceptable levels of frustration and anger. I feel like one time is too much. But then I can't live up to that standard" I could have written that statement. That is exactly how I feel.

[WonderWild]

I understand. My biggest fear is becoming like my mother. Not so much the physical abuse but the yelling. There have been maybe 2 occasions where I've felt like getting physical. My grip tightens and my teeth grind together but then I just scream at myself to "STOP" and I walk away as quickly as possible from whatever it is that he's doing to make me feel this way. When he doesn't listen, like when I tell him not to hit and he does it again, my voice gets louder. Like saying it louder is going to change something.

I do not have friends either. I am a shy person. I'm definately not the type to strike up a conversation with a stranger and if they tried with me I'd just smile or something. I think to myself "I don't know this person. Why do they want to talk to me? What is it that they want me to say anyway?" I am determined to change this though. Ds and I are already in swimming classes so that makes me get out and meet people. I will continue to do these types of things even though I don't much like people. I have to overcome it for his sake. He deserves better than what I had. I think as long as we keep these things in the front of our minds every second of the day, we will make our childrens lives better than ours.

[eilonwy]

I'm so glad you started this thread!

I can relate to so much of what you're saying. My mother was also bipolar (type II, meaning that she never reached true mania but spent a lot of time depressed) and I always felt like she didn't like me. She rarely raised her voice to me, and I can only remember a few times that she hit me, but she used to tell me the most awful things. Essentially, she held me responsible for the way her life was: she was trapped, on welfare with four children and no husband, and her house was a mess and her life was crappy and miserable and people were mean to her and it was all my fault for being born. Why wasn't I more greatful that she didn't just put me up for adoption? My mother's favorite threat was that if I didn't clean up, she'd call CYS and they'd come and take us away and put us into foster care and we'd never see each other again and did I know what happened to kids in foster care, how awful it really was?

Aside from my mother's issues and her problem with giving me way too much information & dumping her problems on me, I was raped several times between the ages of four and sixteen by various people. It was like I had a sign on my head saying "she won't tell" that everyone could see and that I could feel. It was really a rough time.

So of course I swore that one day I'd have children, not just for all the normal reasons that people want children, but because I wanted to prove that I was crazy not only because I was born that way and not because I was a horrible person, but that my environment had been a hugely influential factor in it. I wanted to prove that my genes could result in a normal, healthy, happy child, and I wanted to prove that a happy childhood was possible. I worry when I feel anger, because I have serious anger control issues. I'm terrified that I'm going to hurt Eli sometimes, when part of me is trapped behind a cage in my head screaming "He's just a toddler, he's doing what normal toddlers do!" In fact, today I called my husband and asked him to come home from work early, because I was seriously afraid I was going to hurt Eli and I just couldn't take it anymore, I didn't have a chance to sit down and get a hold of myself. He came home and took Eli and I nursed Rivkah and fell asleep and woke up half an hour later feeling somewhat human again.

I can totally relate to not knowing what an acceptable level of anger or frustration is. It's taken me years to learn it, but I do have a better idea of where my lines are. I knew today, for example, that I was finished and that I couldn't wait that extra five hours for Mike to get home, I needed him right away. I have never hurt Eli, though I have a tendancy to raise my voice more than I should and have occasionally grabbed his arm a little too tightly. When this happens, I tend to put him in a room and walk away for a little while. It kills me to hear him crying, but if I didn't take the time to catch my breath I'd be afraid that he'd cry a lot more.

[suebearsmom]

Im so sorry! I had a very dysfunctional family life as a child too and I just stopped and prayed for a healing to begin in your life.Hugs,Catherine

[alliwenk]

I do not have children yet (but want to very soon...) so I'm sorry if I am out of place or being intrusive, please feel free to let me know .

I was so relieved to see this thread. Though I've always wanted a child, I thought for most of my life that I should not have children because of my mother's bizarre treatment of me. In fact, that's why I'm at MDC, AP is the only ray of hope that I know. AP & dh, who is one of the kindest gentlest people I have known - I feel like, even if I suck as a mama, I know he is the best I could choose to be someone's daddy.

I'm still terrified of becoming a mother. Though her mother was schizophrenic and often hospitalized, my mother hasn't been diagnosed with anything, and can be sooooo very charming to non-family. My mother NEVER touched me as a child, she talks about when I was a newborn and letting me howl for hours so that I wouldn't become spoiled - she thinks this is amusing. Sometimes I am afraid that my desire for a child is a selfish wish to re-mother myself, to treat a baby as I wish I could have been treated. She has been hostile and envious of me my whole life.

I remember hearing a long time ago that we instinctively "remember" how we were mothered and can't help but do the same. While I know that this is irrational, it still frightens me that I may give life to a child only to make them as fearful and ambivalent as I feel toward my mother...

I have no "real" friends and I think this has a lot to do with my mother. I DO have good friends, but I have to work VERY hard at not judging them, maintaining contact, and trusting them.

The worst part is that I'm an only child and therefore feel that I especially have a responsibility to make her feel loved (she gets VERY hostile if not shown my love). My mother and father are still married, rather happily. I'm devoted to my father; he is the "star" in the few happy childhood memories that I have. But he is devoted to my mother - thinks that she should be "protected." He's made it clear that if I don't give her my love then I am cut off from his. I am torn.

Sorry to ramble ladies. But this is the first thread on MDC that has really spoken to ME. I wish you all peace and love. You all give me hope...

Allison

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by alliwenk

Sometimes I am afraid that my desire for a child is a selfish wish to re-mother myself, to treat a baby as I wish I could have been treated.

This is exactly what I was talking about! It is such a relief to know that other people have had these thoughts, I'm actually crying with the relief of it. Thank you so much, I've already gotten a lot out of this thread.

[alliwenk]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

This is exactly what I was talking about! It is such a relief to know that other people have had these thoughts, I'm actually crying with the relief of it. Thank you so much, I've already gotten a lot out of this thread.

eilonwy, your story broke my heart but I thank you so much for getting it - I too am in tears tonight. I usually feel so alone - you can't know how much your validation means to me. Hugs to you eilonwy, and to all of us who need to be on this thread!

Allison

[Serenity Now]

I'm glad that we have each other to talk to. I don't know anyone in my life who has suffered abuse, especially to the extent that I did. I really thought on many days that she was going to kill me. I was also sexually abused by someone else, and once again she didn't believe me. She has been diagnosed with several mental illnesses, including paranoid personality disorder, schizophreniform disorder and multiple personalities. She is under the care of a psychiatrist on an outpatient basis. It was rare she hit us, but she would rage and say things that made no sense at all. I absolutely have fears that I'm insane because I lived with it for so long.

I try to be a good mom, but I know that my mother really tried to be a good mom, too. What if when my daughter grows up I come to find out that I ****ed her up as bad as my mom did to me? How would I know?

My daughter is so gifted when it comes to reading people's emotions, and I know when I'm frustrated that she knows. I try to keep my voice calm and my face neutral, but I feel such rage that it's so hard to keep control.

One of the hardest things about my childhood were the inconsistancies. One day I could ask for PB&J for lunch and she would happily make it. The next day she would scream at me about how ungrateful I am, and that I would eat whatever she said. I notice that my moods tend to switch, too. somedays I am more able to put up with my daughter than others, does that mean I'm nuts, too? Is she going to be sitting here as an adult like I am pouring her fears out to strangers because I was such a terrible mom?

I've been under so much stress lately. My husband is working really long hours on 2 weeks stretches, I've had multiple miscarriages, and I feel so lonely. I need some friends, or some family, but I don't have that. At the playground my daughter is the only one without a playmate. I just don't know how to make friends, or where to start. I can't talk to them about anything, so much of who I am is connected to the abuse, and I have so many bizarre behaviors that people are bound to know. I feel like such a drag all the time, I really have nothing cheery to talk about.

It seems like I'm such a big bundle of fear. I notice that some things I do just because my mom didn't do them. Like I only buy expensive new clothes for my daughter, because I had to suffer without anything so much, or only wear clothes I had "borrowed" because my mom said I wasn't worth the money it would cost to buy me clothes. Do you guys do that kind of stuff, too?

[JuniperJoy]

I come from a very similar backgroud to those being described here - a violent, abusive alcoholic father, who kept finding his seriously sick fundamentalist god everytime he dried out, and a mother who was violently abused herself, and repeated the cycle with her own children. We were whipped with extension cords, beaten into unconsiousness with leather belts, had our pets killed in front of our faces ... a whole nasty, sad mess of things that left me with little empathy, social skills or friends of my own.

The best thing I ever did, after I had my first baby, was to post a notice at our midwife's office, and at our LLL meeting hall for an AP mama's group. I put up my own phone number and organized a group, and from that I had a ton of people who were at least starting on the same page as me. I have friends now, some beautiful, important people who help me be better, as a person, a parent and a partner.

I just posted a simple sign, saying AP Mama's Group. I figured anyone who knew what AP meant was probably all right to have my phone number.

Reach out. There are people in your community, I guarantee you, who will love and support you. You CAN find them. It just takes a piece of paper and a phone number. Having a few people in the real world makes an immeausrable difference. I so encourage you to try ...

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by JuniperJoy

I just posted a simple sign, saying AP Mama's Group. I figured anyone who knew what AP meant was probably all right to have my phone number.

Reach out. There are people in your community, I guarantee you, who will love and support you. You CAN find them. It just takes a piece of paper and a phone number. Having a few people in the real world makes an immeausrable difference. I so encourage you to try ...

That's just so close to impossible for me... it took all I had to go to a LLL meeting for the first time while I was pregnant. Just being around that many people and being expected to talk made me sick to my stomach. Thinking about it made me queasey. I'm terrified to reach out to people IRL, that's why I spend so much time online. It's very easy for me to be sociable when I can know, for a fact, that people are only judging me on my words. I've got a lot more control over the picture that people have of me onilne than I do IRL. I always feel like there's a big sign over my head in real life, but here that sign says exactly what I want it to say, no more and no less.

[meowee]

hi serenity,

My father is an alcoholic and was violent, my mother was & is a pathological narcissist. Everything your mother did, mine did too, except she never claimed I was going to kill her. But the crazymaking, accusing you of saying or doing things you did not do, denying her own behavior, accusing you of making it up, I hear you.

I don't know how to help you other than to tell you that I simply made the choice to be kind to my children. When in doubt, I just do the opposite of what I remember my parents doing. A few times here and there I have lost my temper, especially with one of my children in particular, but even then I never behaved violently or madly as my parents did on a daily basis. I also have a "hands off" rule with myself in regards to discipline. If I am really angry with one of my children, or if I feel they need to be disciplined, I do not let myself even touch that child. It's not so much because I really worry that I might hurt a child, it's more to give myself peace of mind.

Study up on narcissistic and controlling parents. You will understand more about your childhood, and about how NOT to parent your child.

If have the ability to make the choice to be kind, so do you!

[alliwenk]

Originally Posted by meowee

Study up on narcissistic and controlling parents. You will understand more about your childhood, and about how NOT to parent your child.

Do you have any recommended books meowee? I rarely read any psych/self-help books. I'm sure that this is my mother's problem - other people's feelings and needs are just not as REAL to her as her own are.

Allison

[robinwb]

Finally...

I'm new to this forum, although I have subscribed to Mothering for almost a year, now.

I am so glad you started this thread. I was physically and emotionally abused as a child by both of my parents, and I was sexually abused by an adult cousin. I am having my first child in November, and I have worked hard in the past to resolve all of the issues that haunt you as an adult through therapy and medication. I have PTSD, Anxiety disorder, and severe clinical depression. Emotionally, I have been stable for about three years, so I am more confident about my abilities to parent in a healthy manner.

I have so many fears that may seem stupid to people who are not abuse suvivors. My main one is how comfortable I am going to feel breastfeeding. I want to breastfeed really bad, but I can't stand to have my breasts touched or played with - not by myself or my husband. I wonder how will I successfully allow a baby to suckle? Anyone else struggle with this issue?

I, too, had major socialization problems. I was never allowed to go over other kids houses, and none were allowed to come play with me. My parents didn't socialize outside of family. I didn't learn to actually make friends until I went to college.

I have friends,now, but the majority are all childfree by choice. I only know a few people with kids, and they parent in ways that I don't feel comfortable with (such as spanking, letting a baby cry it out, etc.). They think attached parenting is strange. I just don't think I will fit in with other parents, so I am feeling rather alone these days. I read about playgroups, etc., and know I need to join something for the sake of my child, but I honestly am kind of frightened by the thought.

Thnaks again for making that post. I feel a little less alienated, now:-)

[Serenity Now]

Robin, I wanted to talk to you about breastfeeding. This is my take on it, as a sexual abuse survivor. I never enjoyed breastfeeding. There, I said it. For me, the biggest bonding thing was cosleeping. I felt all of those warm squishy feelings while watching her sleep next to me. I still do, as a matter of fact. I had fears that I wouldn't love her, and I still wonder if I really do, so maybe you can understand why I posted about the bonding. Don't beat yourself up if breastfeeding doesn't give you this big motherly rush that you always hear about. I have fears about being able to love anyone, I feel so emotionally dead that I'm not sure if I do love anyone, but you will "bond" with your child. You'll see.

Anyway, I believe that breastfeeding is the most important thing you can do for your child. My problems are not my daughter's problems, and it's not fair to force her to deal with my shortcomings. My mom didn't care at all about my health, from smoking to soda, to not allowing me to eat, and of course soy formula. She just didn't care, and I vowed that come hell or high water I was breastfeeding my daughter. I just found that dead place inside, know what I mean, and lived in there while she nursed. I cut myself off totally because to me giving her the breastmilk was her right as a person, and I wasn't going to let my own weaknesses steal that from her.

I don't want to make you feel bad by posting this. I have found that the abuse has imbued me with a strange strength. I have had many therapists and people who know me tell me how amazed they are that I am able to function at all. I just up and decided one day that I was not going to allow her to win and ruin me. And it didn't matter what I had to do (it makes me think of Gone with the Wind, "As God is my witness" and all that, lol). Now I'm "sucessful," and "well adjusted" and I have to suffer through hearing my mom brag about how she must have done something right since I turned out so well. But I do have the strength to put up with very trying times, and grit my teeth to get done what needs to be done, even on a basic survival level. I just find that empty place, and get by.

I hope this helps you with breastfeeding. Now, I have such a sense of pride that I breastfed her till she weaned on her own. I decided to do something and stuck to it no matter what, and I really got a lot of self-confidence that I could stand up and say that I was a sexual abuse survivor, and still breastfed. I wish you peace.

[Faith]

I was abused as a child too, up until I was a teenager. My dad was gone a lot (working three jobs) which relatives have told me was mostly to stay away from my mom. They *had* to get married. So, I was left alone with her and she was terrible, physically and emotionially. You never knew how it was going to be. Then she would tell my dad things that I did or said that never happened and I would get it from him, too, when he did coe home. She had a lot of the relatives believing for a while that I was this terrible, physcho child. A lot of them were suprised to find out that I never got in trouble at school, made good grades, wasn't into drinking or drugs, and had an early cerfew. I even worked 37 hours a week as a cashier in high school, like she wanted me to- I had no time to be bad! I really don't know what my mom's problem was, other than needing medication. Even her own parents think she needs something. I was sexually abused twice in my childhood, by three different people, and she did nothing both times. Once she found out from reading my dairy, and once I just told her.

Anyway, the worst for me was even after I grew up, I couldn't get free. We lived nearby and she was starting the same things with DS, and everytime I tried to pull back she would try to sue us for grandparents 'rights' so I was emotionially paralyized and didn't know how to defend myself or DS, after being brought up to be a second-class person.

Finally, we moved over 2000 miles away and have not had face contact with them in over a year. My mom denies it all, even the things with police reports.

What really helped me was DH understanding, reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, being able to get SO much support here at MDC, and my faith.
But still, I have days where I think, "Will this ever REALLY be behind me?!" It still hurts to know I will never have nice parents who love me. It is extra hard when I see how much I love DC, and think my own mom never loved me like that- if at all. How can a mom not love her child? The hardest part is just accepting it and letting go.

I think I turned out pretty normal, all things considered. I do NOT have her temper, thank God! I am mostly really happy- I have a great DH, great DC, we live in our dream location (area, not the house! ), I love HSing and all we do, etc. I just wish I could forget the past and REALLY put the abuse behind me.

[lauraess]

Hi ladies: I dont know if i "belong" here for sure but Im a survivior of abuse, thats for sure. Dad was an alcoholic who was terribly abusive emotionally and physically to mom. Mom was never very together- either angry, crazily happy, or depressed. She was never diagnosed with anything since she never sought help and no-one else sought help for her, but I know she's never been quite "right". Inconsistency is what i learned from her . Im always sad for my mom since i know she has not been happy in so long. She apparently was a very different young woman and once she married and got pregnant things fell apart. She had a nervous breakdown, and in the 60's they did shock therapy.
I relate to many things you all have said- being able to be a good mom, wondering at times if Im just going nuts like my mom, not very good at having friends. One thing i struggle with these days is a great awareness that if im in a situation that seems "normal" or for people who have it together, I feel like im faking it to get by-- like a con-artist or something-- and that when Im found out It will be a big joke.
Thanks for starting this great thread. And yes-- maybe our own tribe would be appropriate.
Laura

[Shantimama]

There are some good books out there that can help shed some understanding on your experience and feelings. I recently read Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward and Walking On Eggshells - they were both very helpful for me. I am looking for a copy of Toxic Parents and haven't found it yet. Do you live near a decent public library? Browse throught the self-help section and see what jumps out at you, or go to a good book store and look around.

I was in therapy in my mid twenties and addressed a number of abuse-related issues then. 12 years later I have started again as I realize how important it is now that I am a mama. My mother now lives with us (she has Alzheimers Disease on top of whatever mental illness she has had all of these years) and it is all playing out again. I thought I was going completely crazy until I saw a therapist again. I can't say I am eager to go into it all again, but I trust that I will be that much free-er from it all if I do a little more work. My mom won't be staying with us - we are helping her move into a nursing home this summer. I won't subject my children to this garbage or go through it again myself.

I don't know your financial situation, but is counselling an option? If you found the right person you could do a lot of healing from the issues you are struggling with. Being abused doesn't mean you are doomed forever. I have gone through times when I feel like it does mean that, but I don't feel that way today.

[lauraess]

Shantimama: I agree that working on these issues thru the help of a trained professional and/or the reading of books or whatever kind of group you can find is certainly beneficial. However, as I believe someone said-so many thereapists later and books piling up dust at times dont seem to do quite enough. I think that is because as the relationships with our moms are ssooo very complex and deep for us moms, the feelings and thoughts about ourselves as moms are also very deep and complex. sometimes I wish to erase my mom from my entire existence, yet that would also wipe me out-- that is the me i know--- and somehow, I've managed to love myself just enough to go on living and becoming more than the negative and scary images inside my being might otherwise allow.
so, other dear surviving mamas: " please come here and share and we will listen to each other and be better. "
Laura

[intentfulady]

The Healing Part!!!

My heart goes out to you all.

I suffered similar story.

This is what helped me.

Being in reality.
Keep people around you who love you and nurture you.
If they don't or can't, get them out of your life.

Learn to ask yourself

1) what am I thinking
2)what am I feeling
3) what do I want
4) What do I need.

This is very difficult for abuse survivors, we don't have experience here.

Eventually you will get to know your wants and needs, so you can model these very important self care skills for your child.

Do actions to meet your needs and wants.

Stop everything, get someone to watch child and eat and go take a shower.
Or take the child with you.

Shame is a HUGE part of the toxicity we are left with.

Therapy has been very helpful for me, also, The book "Healling the Shame that Binds You" by John Bradshaw is Excellent. It helped my figure out all the ways their old shame is still inside me and is part of my life. I can now after years of working on it spot my old enemy "shame" and put it in it's place rather than allow it to make me toxic and hurt myself or others.

This is the baby step. It is not easy. HAng in there.

Colleen