Why is our society so un-child-friendly?

[padomi]

People give a lot of lip service to putting kids first, etc. But daily I am met with situations that just make me so sad for kids. It almost feels like people are LOOKING for things kids do to fuss at. I can't tell you how many times my little girl (2 yr old) - who has this fascination with buttons - has gone to push buttons on the card swiper machine (with my permission) and been told not to by the clerk. Or how many times she's asked to hold something in a store until time to go (I've taught her that she can hold a certain object until we leave then has to put it back - which she does without complaint most of the time) only to have some clerk come up and say "Can I have that back please?" Do people really think I'm okay if they roll their eyes or make some snide comments when my child fusses or whines a little? It really infuriates me. My child can't take a step without being told to "Be Careful!" by my MIL or my step mother? Geez, she can walk and even run! If she falls, it may hurt a little while, but if you keep squashing her spirit, it will hurt forever!! In our society, people treat children as though they should be neither seen nor heard. Very sad. Children aren't valued in our society. They aren't given credit for being able to make decisions, think, be trusted. It's no surprise kids grow up angry. I'd be angry too.

Vent over. And please feel free to move this if I posted it in the wrong place.

[WonderWild]

I agree. In fact, just today a co-workers sister came in with her 28 mo old and they ate in our lunch room. He was doing typical things like going back and forth from the soda machine pretending to bring them drinks and such. Never sat down for a moment. Always on the go. The mom said something to us like "just let us know if he's too noisy and we will go somewhere else so you can enjoy your lunch". We actually were all getting a kick out of watching him. Especially when he announced that he was pooping

I just thought to myself that if anyone was getting annoyed by his behavior that it was them that had the problem. He was not screaming or anything like that. I understand that she was being polite since she was on our turf and in a business environment but if I were her I don't think I would have offered to leave just b/c he's being energetic.

I just hate it that it seems like everyone is on the lookout for "bad behavior" and are so ready to point it out. Why can't they just let them be!!

[padomi]

I just hate it that it seems like everyone is on the lookout for "bad behavior" and are so ready to point it out. Why can't they just let them be!!

That is exactly what I was trying to say. I mean really, if they aren't hurting anyone or anything, then leave them alone! I hate the "No" attitude everyone carries around with them. People should ask more often "Why not?" I very much want to raise my child to be a free spirit. It means going against the grain of society, but so be it.

[mpeel]

Our nation as a whole (and others probably but no experience there) is completely un-child-friendly. Chemical use is rampant and is hardest on our smallest citizens. No one wants noise. Do you know how much my kids would LOVE the symphony or ballet. But neither can go. I get rude looks when my two are helping me grocery shop. They may be 1/2 an aisle ahead of me and slightly noisy choosing juices or fruits, etc. But they are not rude or in the way. They know their manners. But it drives people nuts. This is a rant I could go on and on about. What about child-friendly work environments. Why spend X on improving daycare. Why not improve work conditions so more children can remain with their parents? My daughter could not visit her dying best friend because she was too young to visit. It had been three months since she had seen her. She died without Beth seeing her.

Ugh, gotta stop. I just posted all that to say - I am with you!

[flight]

I agree that our society is not child-friendly, but as a store clerk, I would like to offer another point of view.

It is a sad comment on our society that part of my job is to secretly assume everyone who walks in the store is attempting to shoplift, including moms with strollers. I have to watch very carefully what children pick up while they are in my store, because the parent may 1) see that they like it, and steal it from my store, or 2) not even notice that the child has it and accidentally leave the store with it.

This is not to imply that you are either inattentive or a shoplifter, because from your post you are obviously paying a lot of attention to what your child is doing in the store and even letting her participate in "shopping." But if you came in my store tomorrow, I'd have no way of knowing that.

I agree with you on the rest. People (grown-ups) often treat children like they're not really people. Unfortunately I see a lot of that in my store too. It's not pleasant.

[menudo]

I saw both extremes at my last job working at a gift shop. Now most of our customers were kids on school and camp trips-so Ibecame the adult in charge. Most of my coworkers THOUGHT they were nice, but they were so mean-in the less than month i worked their I am embarrassed to admit I had people compliment me that I was the only decent human in the building, write in, etc. My cowrkers ignored all people but would yell ay kids too. Not me. Well, once or twice when I caught some ready to steal...

ANYWAY, I would see parents who a) let their kids touch everything, even glass, throw balls in the crowded store, etc. and not even politely say "Please don't do that." b) Spank a 2yo or under for touching a stuffed animal! I rarely saw a middle point!

I am child friendly and that's what I focus on. DS is difficult and can be annoying. Friday I man threatened to take his belt off (I let it go as it was in a Dentist office and he hada bad toothache, not argueing with a man w/ a toothache!!) when my son was flipping out. Of course, DS had no clue what that meant and just stared at him. DS also seemed to take to the guy. Noone tried to COMFORT my very freaked out DS. the place was crowded and an hour into waiting a patient came out in ankle and wrist shackles with 2 prison guards...lol The prisons choice for dental care. We left w/o ever being seen.

Ok, Iam babbling nut stay child friendly, it sets a nice example...

[loving-my-babies]

I agree. it's so sad for the children.. they deserve to have a world that supports their being children.

[wende]

I was recently thinking this exact same thing. I was at a hotel in San Francisco and we had just checked out. My dh was going to get the car while the kids and I waited inside. The kids decided to take a look at the postcards so I walked over with them and looked. As soon as my kids touched one the lady that was working the stand came around and frantically started looking outside. When a truck pulled up she asked "is that truck yours? The blanco one?" I said "huh?" ok, first, we're not hispanic and neither was she (in fact she was Asian with an an Asian accent) and the only truck out there was black, not white. So she said "the black truck, is it yours?" I said "oh, no, that's not ours." So then she gets really jumpy and litterally grabbed the post card thing that my 9yo dd had in her hand (it was like a collection of them, I had a different one in my hand as well) and said "don't touch, put it back, you're ruining it". I was pissed. I was actually going to buy what my dd had. It was a cool collection of all the things we'd seen while there and since my camera doesn't work we didn't get any pics that trip. I yelled at the lady that there is no excuse to treat a child like she is a second class citizen and that my dd was at least as important, if not more so, than she was and that children need to be treated with dignity and respect. I also told her that I probably would have bought everything that my kids would have asked for (they each had their eye on one thing) were she not so rude and disrespectful. Just then my dh came in and asked what was going on. I told him and he shot darts at her with his eyes. She started stumbling over her words saying "no, no, that's not what happened, she was ruining it." Sure, if by ruining it you mean touching it. I probably could have handled the situation better, myself, but man I was mad.

[WonderWild]

On the other hand though, things are so different now than in the era of "it takes a village to raise a child". What I mean is that we as parents cannot be trusting of strangers helping us with our children. For instance, if I were out somewhere and my child was losing it, if a stranger came up to try to engage my child I'd immediately be on the defensive. I'd be watching them closely and be wondering what it is they are wanting. There are very, very bad people out there unfortunately. And on the flip side of that many people probably don't try and help b/c they are afraid of being accused of being on of those bad people. KWIM?

About being allowed in certain functions such as a symphony or ballet I agree that this is stupid. Why not open up this world for our children so that they can benefit. They probably would enjoy it much more than even we would. I can see them dancing down the isle now.

[Kinipela79]

About being allowed in certain functions such as a symphony or ballet I agree that this is stupid. Why not open up this world for our children so that they can benefit. They probably would enjoy it much more than even we would. I can see them dancing down the isle now.

Just wanted to add a positive note - my dh directs an adult choir and at our last concert a little one started screeching in the audience (my dh scares me too sometimes...ha ha just kidding) but he turned around on stage and said "I LOVE little kids - that's great" or something like that and it totally relieved any tension in the place and made it known that small children are welcome at our concerts. We LOVE it when people bring their children because it's so important for them to be exposed to all sorts of different music, dance, theater, art. A couple years ago I played Maria in West Side Story and brought my ds to rehearsal with me a few times and it was such an experience for him. To see everything getting put together (plus some of the guys in the cast took him to the costume room and had a whole play of their own lol). So just a little side note from a couple of child friendly people!!

[Marsupialmom]

I am currently working retail. We have to through AT LEAST one pillow away a week because a kid has held onto it through the store and got it to dirty to sale. We have to throw toys and books away all the time because parents don’t watch and the children are to rough on them. We get chewed on books that toddlers have road in the cart and chewed. It really can be a financial loss for our store that we pass on to the customer.

I have had to ask kids not to through balls, swing swords, swing their arms in our glass/ crystal section. We have had children hurt seriously on our doors because of playing on or around them.

As for the card swiper machine depending on the system it can lock it up. Our old machines locked up. Now you can push away a no big deal. Since you don’t know if their machines are quirking this request might well be reasonable.

I agree our word is not always child friendly but there are things we can do to make it friendly. Understand why stores don’t like you to let your child hold something that you are not going to purchase. Bring something for them. Maybe a surprise goody bag.

When she wants to push the swipe buttons have her help you.

I think sometimes people are so child unfriendly is because parents tend to forget there are others. Some parents that take their child to a movie, theater, et and let them scream, cry, run around not realizing how annoying it is to other patrons. Some times the best thing we can do is sit towards the back and leave when our children act like children and have had enough of an activity. Some parents don't respect that the child cannot sit, talk quitely, and eat at fancy restraunts for 2 hours. The child disturbs others.

Our culture has changed were if mom is in a store she can send the kids outside to play while she finishes her duties.

******As for the grandmothers always saying “BE CAREFUL” you just have to smile and move on. I bet they still remind their children to do things like put on a coat. You will not change them. You just have to say, “Oh, that is ok DC knows how to do that safely.” “Oh, DC is smart enough to do that with out a problem.”. When they come back I just don’t want them hurt (and they will). Act shocked and question “Do you think I want DC hurt? I know she is perfectly capable.” or "Which way do you think she could do that safely. Why don't you show her."

[frand]

Marsupialmom you made some good points. I bemoan how child unfriendly so many places seem to be but your note reminded me that we went to a movie Saturday and a family with an infant sat down in front of us and the baby cried through most of the movie. It was just so rude, I mean the baby was clearly unhappy, even though it was a children's movie, it had loud noise and music -- too much for an infant! And as far as Grandma constantly saying, be careful -- oh man, don't get me started. Let's just say it's been my observation that the people who are constantly telling a child 'be careful' are the ones who have the least actual meaningful interaction with them. They just like to control.

[menudo]

You remined me of one common retail experience. A baby has been chewing on a toy-usually a stuffed animal-and the parent hands it to me w/o telling me!! Then I get spit all over me!!!!!!!! At least some would tell me and offer another to scan, etc. EWWW!!!! Once a kid gave me his money and it was wet-I broke out in a rash til I washed up!!!! But that isn't the kids fault...

It's weird, I liek kids and I was always called the nice lady when working places with kids...I just gave them common respect...

[beloved1]

What really burns me up is when you go to a resteurant with your spouse and child and the host/ess says "table for 2? completely ignoring that there is another person there. This has happened several times and i always make a very strong reply NO, 3 PEOPLE. Also when their needs are simply ignored in a resteurant such as not bringing them silverware (Whattt???)

Can you believe?

[mackinsiesmom]

Resturants get me too. Two weeks ago we were eating at a seafood house and they placed us in a booth. I had to ask for a high chair. I think they thought that a 13 month old is going to sit at a booth by herself. Then an employee came up and said that having the highchair there was a fire hazard, just to let us know. She then asked if my dd could sit in a booster chair. I said "no she is 13 months". My dh got mad by this point and asked why they sat us there in the first place. They lady thought we had requested on sitting there. Needless to say, we won't be back there. Another thing is that most waitresses and waiters won't ask what dd is having. I have learned to order her first or they will run off before I can get a chance to order hers.

It is sad that a child can't be a child but I always try and be aware of who is around because I do know that there are people who don't like the noise of children.

[padomi]

As for the card swiper machine depending on the system it can lock it up. Our old machines locked up. Now you can push away a no big deal. Since you don’t know if their machines are quirking this request might well be reasonable.

If I can touch the buttons, why can't she? I show her which buttons to push and she pushes them!!! the same buttons I have to push for the transaction! If I have to push them anyway, why can't my child?!

Some of your posts just reiterate what I mean - those of you who work retail have demonstrated the attitudes I get from clerks exactly. When you see a kid getting a pillow dirty, then ask them mother to pay for it. If you see my child harmlessly carrying a bag of bread, then leave her alone. I'm trying to teach her responsiblility. I don't need the world getting in my way!

[famousmockngbrd]

On the other hand -

DH, DS and I went out to eat last Sunday night. DS is almost 21 months. The waitress brought him a cup of water with a lid and a straw. A little while later, she was walking past and DS held his cup out to her, saying "more water, more water." I was talking to DH and barely heard him myself, but she stopped and said to him, "Oh, would you like some more water?" He said yes and gave her the cup and she took it and came right back with some more water for him. She totally treated him like the little person he is, without undue fawning - it was great.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by padomi

If I can touch the buttons, why can't she? I show her which buttons to push and she pushes them!!! the same buttons I have to push for the transaction! If I have to push them anyway, why can't my child?!

Some of your posts just reiterate what I mean - those of you who work retail have demonstrated the attitudes I get from clerks exactly. When you see a kid getting a pillow dirty, then ask them mother to pay for it. If you see my child harmlessly carrying a bag of bread, then leave her alone. I'm trying to teach her responsiblility. I don't need the world getting in my way!

If she is doing it this way, then it should be fine. When you mentioned about pushing buttons I took it as she was just sitting there playing and pushing buttons randomly (not helpfully, not when you would normally).

As for the dirty pillow: We cannot do this with a customer. We can and do get cussed out and get bad mouthed. Many parents think they have a right to treat good anyway they want and still not buy it. In many business you break it you bought it no longer applies and is not really enforcable. You might buy squished bread but more often or not, it is left unpurchased cutting into our profits/cost.

[cinnamonamon]

I have to say that the people working in retail do take a lot of crap -- not that that makes it okay to go overboard, of course! My sister works at Marshalls, and they literally do take "crap"! At least monthly, they have to clean POOP out of the changing rooms -- people don't feel like taking their children to the bathroom, apparantly! :Puke

that said, I often go out of my way to smile at clerks & make eye contact so they know I am watching my ds & won't let him harm anything. I ask the clerks if he can play with the swipey machine & the grocery stores around me all have set-ups where it is okay until they are done ringing up the groceries. And I always buy anything ds has slobbered on or damaged...it's sad that some parents ruin it for everyone who does take care of their children!

[littleaugustbaby]

Some of your posts just reiterate what I mean - those of you who work retail have demonstrated the attitudes I get from clerks exactly. When you see a kid getting a pillow dirty, then ask them mother to pay for it. If you see my child harmlessly carrying a bag of bread, then leave her alone. I'm trying to teach her responsiblility. I don't need the world getting in my way!

Padomi, I totally get what you're saying. But the reality is that even if you ask someone to pay for something that their child has destroyed, that doesn't mean that they will, or that they're even required to do so. Also, in a lot of places, an employee wouldn't be allowed to ask that a parent pay for an item that their child has destroyed, because it might be seen as bad customer service. I think that we can teach our children responsibility without letting them handle things in stores, especially items that we don't intend to purchase.

I worked part-time retail type jobs all through college to help pay my living expenses. My first job was in a movie theater. There was one woman who used to dump her 9 year old son off at our theater while she went out. Every time he was there, he ended up doing considerable damage...spreading nacho cheese on movie theater seats, throwing things at movie screens, etc. This kid cost us a fortune in repairs and maintenance, not to mention all of the refunds and free movie passes that we had to give to our other customers when he would run around and disturb people who were trying to watch movies. One night, he was throwing things at one of the movie screens. He ended up tearing one of the movie screens, and it cost several THOUSAND dollars to repair and clean it. We repeatedly told his mother that we were *not* there to babysit him, and she would roll her eyes and drop him off anyway. We finally told her that we would not allow him to come to the theater without an adult present. So she would buy two tickets, go into the movie with him, and sneak out an exit, leaving him alone to do whatver he wanted. He also pulled similar stunts at the grocery store upstairs, spilling things, doing damage, stealing, you name it. We would call the police, and every time they'd tell us that they couldn't do anything because he was a minor. The night that he destroyed the movie screen, one of the managers escorted him into the office, where he called the police and his mother. His mother came to pick him up and threatened to sue the theater for making him wait for her in the office instead of in the theater lobby.

I realize that this is extreme, but I'm sure that most people who've ever worked in any kind of retail/customer service type of position can tell you some kind of horror story like this, and that it's had an impact on the way they behave towards children in that setting.

To be perfectly honest, I'd react the same way to an adult or teenager if I thought that they were goofing off or were going to damage something. If anything, I'd probably be more inclined to speak more gently to a child than an adult.