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Zoo shirt -- The Sequel  

post #1 of 62
7/25/04 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
Since my ds's zoo shirt incident of last month, I have allowed him to wear the shirt (which is one of his favorites, by the way) many times in many different places. We have not received any more negative comments from anyone.
The other day, we decided to return to the zoo because our visit last month was cut short. My ds asked to be able to wear his "Fuck This Shit" shirt again, and I agreed. (Before you ask, yes, I had decided that if there was a complaint and a repeat of the situation, THIS TIME I was going to challenge it !!). Well, we were there for about 5 hours altogether and no one said a word negative ! It was a hot and sweaty day and I almost expected someone to be in a bad mood and say something, but no one did. No zoo guards, no parents, no other kids. Things went very well ! The next day we went to an amusement park in the northern part of our state and he wore the shirt again. Again, no negative comments after about 7 hours of being there. We did, however, have a few people (one set of parents and two teen girls) comment that they liked the shirt. YAY ! It redeemed my faith in some people and re-iterated my belief that there is nothing wrong with this shirt. Sorry if you disagree, but such is life.
post #2 of 62
7/25/04 at 2:21pm
How very nice that your choice was validated. And that no one dared voice an opinion different from your own. That must feel great .
post #3 of 62
7/25/04 at 2:31pm
I dont really understand why you would want your son to wear a shirt like that. Its just not a very nice thing to say. Arent there other, less offensive ways at proclaiming your anger with the status quo?
post #4 of 62
7/25/04 at 2:52pm
Well, I guess I'm glad that no one threw you out of anywhere.

I still don't understand why you would want your DS to wear something so obnoxious. I'm all for free-speech, but I get easily annoyed by people who are so hung-up on bucking the system and making a point that they use their children as bulliten boards for disrespectful messages.
post #5 of 62
7/25/04 at 4:07pm
Maybe the people you encountered were just too polite or flabergasted to say anything.

MM
post #6 of 62
7/25/04 at 4:22pm
Quote:
My ds asked to be able to wear his...shirt again
It doesn't sound like he was "used" as a bulletin board - he asked to wear something and was allowed to wear it.

Maybe everyone else around realized they didn't have to stand there gaping at the shirt if they didn't like it. That concept is lost on so many people; the act of turning away from what we don't want to see. The new way seems to be "stand there and stare at things you don't want to see."
post #7 of 62
7/25/04 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindful Mom
\I'm all for free-speech, but I get easily annoyed by people who are so hung-up on bucking the system and making a point that they use their children as bulliten boards for disrespectful messages.
Well said.
post #8 of 62
7/25/04 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
It doesn't sound like he was "used" as a bulletin board - he asked to wear something and was allowed to wear it.
It's not surprising that he asked to wear it. I get the impression that this child has been schooled for a long time to act as a bulletin board.
post #9 of 62
7/25/04 at 4:52pm
I didn't read the original thread so I wouldn't know, but IME kids don't have to be taught or convinced to wear things with swear words on them! :LOL
post #10 of 62
7/25/04 at 5:01pm
Just curious, since you don't have a problem with this shirt, what do you teach your child(ren) about "swear words"?

In my house, I've told my kids that these words aren't "bad" they're just "impolite", just like saying someone is "stupid" or burping in public isn't polite. I don't want them to be afraid of these words, but I don't want them in the habit of saying them either. I've also told them that if they use these words people will make assumptions about them like they're less intelligent, less educated, or that they have little control over their emotions.

I got a note home last year that my son had said "Fuck you" on the playground. I asked him about it and apparently there was a discussion amongst a few kids about what the middle finger gesture meant, and my son offered that he had heard it meant "fuck you". I confirmed this with the teacher, and he hadn't been punished for it, just asked not to use those words at school, but it did prompt a good discussion on how these words can scare some people because they have been taught that they are "bad".
post #11 of 62
7/25/04 at 5:29pm
Well calling somone "stupid" is a little more than impolite. I'll go along with swear words being used loudly in public being impolite though (and very different than name calling).

It is harder to side with Shann in this thread since her point seems to be "people who thought my son shouldn't be wearing the shirt are wrong since this weekend no one objcted and we even got some compliments," and I don't know how such a trhead will prompt interesting discussion.

But I would like to second Greeseball's point about people realizing that "they didn't have to stand there gaping at the shirt if they didn't like it."


If you don't want your kids to say swear words, don't let them say them. If you don't want your kids to hear swear words, well, that is trickier. I don't want my kids to be bombarded with gender stereotyps, but there is absolutely NO way to prevent it in a world where so many adults and kids hold these sterotypes. My choice is to move to the woods or to talk and teach my kids to b critcial about them. That maybe what the answer to swear words is for non-swearing parents; in a world where so many adults and kids swear, your best bet is to teach and talk withyour kids about these words. BTW, I heard a social scientist on Freshair (NPR show) talking about studies of langauge use by kids. When adults aren't present, something like 70-90 percent of kids as young as 3 old use swear words in thier inetraction with other kids. In other words, your kids will be confronted with these words, t-shirt of no-t-shirt.
post #12 of 62
7/25/04 at 5:41pm
I think people get into trouble when they try to make things so that no one will ever be offended at all. So we have dress codes and rules about words and "acceptable community standards" and they just keep getting stricter because in spite of all that, people keep getting offended.

What if someone had on a shirt that said "I'm the NRA" or "Keep abortion legal" or "South Park" and someone else got offended? What are we supposed to do there; ask them to turn their shirts inside out? You could say, well, those shirts aren't obscene. But isn't the whole reason we don't like "obscene" things because they are offensive to us?

And how is "obscene" defined? Sure, we can all agree that "the f word" is obscene. But what about "No fat chicks?" That to me is really obscene and offensive, yet no one complains about that. (And BTW, those shirts have been around a lot longer than those "Boys are stupid; throw rocks at them" shirts that everyone is offended by now.) What about the shirt that one of my dh's 6th graders wore that said "Shut up and suck it?" That's the most obscene thing I've heard of on a shirt, a lot worse than "f this" in my opinion.

I remember an article I read about a high school student being suspended for wearing a Marilyn Manson shirt, which the school classified as obscene. But the shirt did not have lyrics or pictures, just the name of the band! So now anything that "makes" you think of something that might be obscene is itself obscene? :
post #13 of 62
7/25/04 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
It is harder to side with Shann in this thread since her point seems to be "people who thought my son shouldn't be wearing the shirt are wrong since this weekend no one objcted and we even got some compliments,"
I'd like to think that she doesn't judge her moral standards by how many people publicly object. I don't think most people do. I don't think that was her point. I think she thought she was happy to not be challenged, but in reality I suspect she likes shocking or challenging people.

I get that, I used to think it was fun to challenge people's perceptions by dressing unusual, and then not being what they expected me to be. (Not a juvenile delinquent, I am intellegent, etc.) But now I find it's more fun to be accepted as one of the crowd and then challenge their perceptions "from the inside" by what I say. (She seems normal enough, but breastfeeding until they're three? Not crying it out? The War in Iraq is wrong? The Patriot Act is unpatriotic? wow...)
post #14 of 62
7/25/04 at 5:54pm
You sound really proud of yourself! Congratulations!
post #15 of 62
7/26/04 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shann
The next day we went to an amusement park in the northern part of our state and he wore the shirt again.
All I can say is, after a hot and sweaty day at the zoo the day before, I hope you washed it.
post #16 of 62
7/26/04 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen
All I can say is, after a hot and sweaty day at the zoo the day before, I hope you washed it.


very cute
post #17 of 62
7/26/04 at 2:32am
:
post #18 of 62
7/26/04 at 5:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shann
We did, however, have a few people (one set of parents and two teen girls) comment that they liked the shirt. YAY ! It redeemed my faith in some people and re-iterated my belief that there is nothing wrong with this shirt. Sorry if you disagree, but such is life.
Yep that gives me soo much faith in the future of or children.
I still don't get why you insist on proving that this Tshirt is appropiate. If you (or anyone) want their DC to wear it okay, would I find it offensive you bet, offensive to their own children sorry but as I said before words DO have meanings and curse words such as this are meant to degrade or give harm. Yes there only words but words can be powerful weapons. What will your reaction be if one day someone really gives offense to the type of language you chose to allow your children to freely display. Now would I go up to you and tell you I had a problem with the shirt nope. So just because some choose to turn away doesn't prove anything.
Deanna
post #19 of 62
7/26/04 at 5:48am
Thread Starter 
I always find it interesting how many people read things into things on here (and in so many other places) ! *SIGH !* NO ! I didn't have the intention of turning my son into a "billboard" with the shirt. NO ! I don't enjoy shocking people. NO ! I didn't go to the zoo intending to start up another battle with the zoo people. AND NO ! I didn't post this follow-up simply to start up more discussion or get people to "side" with me !! Can't people simply accept that we decided to go to the zoo again after an interrupted trip last month and my ds decided he wanted to wear the shirt again ? I didn't force him or ask him to wear it, or make him wear it both days to both places (washed or unwashed). He could have worn a shirt that said "Hi, have a beautiful day!" as far as I was concerned ! And I am sure some people would have been offended by that in SOME way as well ! ("it was the wrong style of writing" or "you are forcing your values on us and expect us to have a beautiful day---what if we want to have a crappy day ? That's our prerogative !" etc etc) LOL ! Anyway, I didn't (and don't) expect a huge discussion on this, nor do I expect alot of people to agree with my decision to allow my ds to wear the shirt again on both days....I simply thought I would post and let people know that I got by 2 days with the shirt without being yelled at...just in case anyone wanted to know. Please stop reading so much into things and just let things be what they are !
(And by the way, Dechen, for your info., NO, the shirt wasn't washed after the first day ! LOL !)
post #20 of 62
7/26/04 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shann
I always find it interesting how many people read things into things on here .... Please stop reading so much into things and just let things be what they are !
I'm sure we're all already curious as to your motivations to buy your son this article of clothing, (which you never really explained) and why you don't mind wearing it into a family enviroment where it's likely to offend people (whether or not they say so) and I mentioned I was curious how you explain such language and peoples responses to it to your child (which you also never responded to) but you can't, really, above all else expect such a post to not generate discussion.

When people "let things just be what they are" they are usualy doing so to follow the mainstream, the status quo. Small children walking around wearing a tshirt with two of the seven words you can't say on tv printed on it is NOT following the status quo. Therefore, I think it's perfectly legitimate to speculate as to why one would make that decision. You're certainly not offering up any clues.

I'm not even necessarily against the decision, (still pondering it actually), but that makes me all the more curious as to your reasons behind it. And also your reasons for posting either one to the board. You can't honestly say you expected everyone to rally to your defense, I'd be surprised if you thought even a couple would.

"He could have worn a shirt that said 'Hi, have a beautiful day!' as far as I was concerned ! And I am sure some people would have been offended by that in SOME way as well !"
What sh*t. Reminds me of people who dye their hair bright pink and then complain that people stare at them. It would be giving you an exorbanant amount of credit to classify that as even "grasping at straws".

I mean if you want to discuss the matter, fine, but to bait people then say, "leave me alone" is just pathetic.
:trollicon :trollicon :trollicon
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