Cesarean Birth Support Circle July/August 04 - Page 2

[kimberlylibby]

LOL Carla, I thought it looked bad in that pic! It's way lighter now!!
I scar nicely... after my first c/s my ob said I was a great candidate for plastic surgery.... what the HECK does that mean, I'm ugly or somethin? :

[eilonwy]

Hello! I had my pp check yesterday. My doctor (as everyone else has been) was very impressed with my incision. She also said that I have a really tiny cervix, it looks like I've never labored, to say nothing of having had a vaginal delivery (which BeanBean was). Apparently my cervix was the only part of my body to completely bounce back after BeanBoy's birth. :LOL

Toddler lifting-- I did it way early. Like, I picked Eli (22 pounds) up a couple times in the hospital. : I probably shouldn't have. By the time I was 1 week pp, I could lift him comfortably, though I couldn't carry him far. If I hadn't gotten angry and stupid and started moving furniture, I'd have been able to keep on lifting him after that. I say try it at 1 week and take it slowly; if you're comfortable, keep going.

Things I was told not to do after my c-section (much of which I did anyway):

1. Lift anything heavier than Rivkah (3 weeks).
2. Walk more than half a block (3 weeks).
3. Go up & down a flight of stairs more than once a day (4 weeks).
4. Drive (4 weeks).
5. Have sex (6 weeks).
6. Go without sleeping/get stressed out (as long as I could).

There was more, but I can't remember it all... it was quite a list, and they kept asking if I had people around to do these things for me, if the bathroom was on the same floor as the bedroom, etc. I had the distinct impression that if I'd been a single mom with noone around to help and a bunch of stairs to deal with, they'd have kept me in the hospital for a few more days. :LOL

Electra- I read your post and kind of wondered if you knew where you were. This is not a group of women who plan to have section after section... I can't remember reading a single post on this thread about someone who had a cesearian (emergency or planned) who was planning, from the beginning, to have another. We're not posting to this thread because we love the fact that our babies came into this world surgically and we think it's so cool... so what was your point? (Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude. I honestly want to know.)

[Piglet68]

Well, to pick up on eilonwy's post, I am actually planning another cesarian after my first planned one...

I won't go into the details here since most people know, and it's sort of irrelevant anyways. What I wanted to talk about were my thoughts on c/s number two...

I have never experienced a single labour pain, and with this baby almost surely being my last, I probably never will. I have thought about waiting to go into labour, and then going to the hospital for my c/s, but I can't convince myself it's worth the hassle. I have a 2 year old who will need to be looked after, and has never spent the night away from us. My mother is the only person who has ever sat for her, and then only a couple hours at most. Having a planned c/s means scheduling it for the morning, when mum can come over and be with DD. Then they can come visit us in the early afternoon. If I waited for labour and it happened in the middle of the night, for example, or in the evening, it would be very stressful for DD to have us both (me and DH) leave at that time.

I'm also afraid of the pain, and wondering what benefit there would be to allowing it to even start? I know my due dates are bang on (I was tracking my cycles when I got PG), so there's no concern about baby being born early. And to go through all that just to say I felt some early contractions? I'd be begging for the epidural/spinal in no time, and then I can't IMAGINE having that put in while you are labouring!

Sometimes I think I should at least think about a VBAC...but then again, it's leaving the familiar for the unknown scary territory of birthing. It seems insane to me. I loved my first birth. I felt no pain. Sure the epidural going in was a bit painful, but it lasted only a few minutes, and was certainly nothing I couldn't handle. I can't imagine comparing it to hours of the excruciating pain of labour...I recovered very swiftly (was up and walking that evening), my meds did their job perfectly with no side effects. I was able to nurse my DD, have her sleep on my chest...it was just all so peaceful.

But hanging around these boards it's hard not to at least wonder about what birthing must really feel like. So I guess these are the thoughts I'm having these days. I get these thoughts like "maybe I *should* try for labour, maybe I *should* try for a VBAC" and then I think "why?"...I wonder if I'm just feeling a sort of "peer pressure". My first birth was so great, there's nothing I feel could use improving upon, so why not stick with what I know?

sorry if this is rambling...seemed a good place to get this off my chest....

[LisaG]

Piglet,

I'm so glad to hear that you were happy with your first c/s . It also sounds like you've given much thought and consideration to what your best choice is for your next birth.

For me personally, it makes me really sad to know that my chance of ever experiencing a vb is slim to none given my uterine surgical history. I've never given birth, but I've had the privledge of attending 2 home births and 2 hospital births, as well as being present for 3 sibling home births.

There's a lot I'm going to miss - the rite of passage (even though I know c/s is its own rite of passage), getting to the point of knowing I can't go on anymore and yet somehow digging deep and going on, feeling the rhythm of labor, feeling the uncontrollable urge to push, feeling the power of birth, feeling the dance of my baby finding his/her way into the world, feeling that first bit of scalp, scooping my baby up onto my belly all warm and wet and slippery, nesting in my own bed, in the quiet, in the dim lights.

I know that not all births are like this. I know that birth is unpredictable and that even the most prepared and informed woman can find herself drowning in the process of birth. I know that sometimes s*it happens. I know women who would gladly have a c/s to avoid the trauma of their vb. I know women who have been unable to sit, have sex, urinate, have a bowel movement without excruciating pain for days/weeks/months as the result of a traumatic vb. To me, that was a risk I was willing to take - I wanted a chance, because for me the opportunity and gain was worth the risk. I know that bad things can happen, but I also know that usually they don't. So *for me* that is a chance I deeply wanted and truly expected I'd have.

So yes, Piglet, it makes sense to me that you would perhaps be having second thoughts about whether or not to labor first. I know that you will do what is best for you and your life - whether that is labor or no labor, and I look forward to hearing your birth story and welcoming your little one to the world.

Lisa

[jenniferB]

hi, first i want to thank everyone for their replies on how fast they were able to leave the hospital. i hope that everything goes smoothly for me and i can do it within 3-4 days, too.

i was also going to bring up the toddler-at-home issue. i was actually going to ask how to keep them from jumping up and down on your belly or crawling over you when you are lying together. i hadn't thought about carrying. oh dear. don't know how i'm going to manage that. dd is very attached.

i'm glad there are others with positive c/b experiences. i never had any regrets about the first and after a lot of research feel comfortable with going thru the second. don't feel like i am missing a thing by not vb'ing. maybe it's because i considered adoption for a long time or that i know some wonderful adoptive moms. maybe if something went wrong because of a c-section i would feel differently. but when baby is fine, or even possibly better than if birthed vaginally, i am happy and can think of nothing other than how wonderful life is.

[eilonwy]

You know, Piglet, as soon as I hit send on that post and logged off, I thought of you. :LOL

I'm glad that you're comfortable with your c/s births. I think there is a lot of peer pressure on these boards to have a drug-free vaginal delivery, if not to squat in the woods and catch the baby on your own... I think that's why so many people feel defensive about their birth experiences here. (Okay, I think that's why I feel so defensive about my birth experiences here. :LOL) It's more than just peer pressure... it's an overwhelming sense that if you don't do it "the right way" you're willfully harming your child. I've still got issues with all the attacks on my character earlier this year, so I'm going to drop this before I start to get nasty again.

Remember when I thought maybe I had my period a week and a half ago? Well, I'm pretty sure that I ovulated about 40 minutes ago. I'm kind of ticked off about it. I mean, there's a chance that I won't get my period on CD 21-28, but I'm officially not holding my breath. How depressing! I actually borrowed "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" from my LLL library to see if I had missed something with Eli (when I got my period back at 3.5 weeks pp) and the only thing I could think of was that Eli couldn't comfort nurse-- he always got milk, so he would cry if he was full and needed to suck. He'd end up sucking on a finger (never would take a binky), either mine or Mike's.

I figured that I'd get around that, by being sneaky and tandem nursing. Two kids, more sucking, no period, right? Apparently not. Someone out there seems to think I should have my children closer together than I do. Sorry! I can't do that. It would be horrible for Rivkah; she needs her nursies, so much so that even if I had started out with abm I'd probably be trying to relactate right now. Her little kidneys can barely handle mamma's milk, what on earth would abm do to her system? I shudder to think.

I just think it's not fair to get your period back so quickly at all, to say nothing of having it happen while tandeming. I mean Eli nurses a zillion times a day, and he's fairly serious about his nursing-- it's like work to him. Rivkah's gone from the 25th percentile to the 50th, because she gets all the milk she wants and never has to work hard for it... hm, maybe it's my overactive letdown that's doing it! Maybe because my kids barely have to think about nursing to have milk squirting all over the place, I'm not stimulating the entire system. Or maybe I've always had a lot of prolactin, so my system is accustomed to it. I don't know. What I do know is, I've never heard of anyone getting their period back at 4 weeks pp while tandem nursing, so I guess there's something abnormal about me. *sigh* Back to the careful routine! :LOL

[kimberlylibby]

Aww,Rynna! I sympathize and I'm sure I'll be with you in a few weeks! I got af back somewhere around a month after Libby, maybe 4-6 weeks after delivery, I forget. I just remember being P.O.'ed big time.

Kimberly

[Piglet68]

Thanks for the supportive words, eilonwy and LisaG.

I think you are right that I'm just having a hard time "loving" my c/s birth and yet feeling true to the spirit of natural parenting. I really DO believe that birth is overmedicalized in our society. I really do feel that the number of interventions and c/s are too high, and that we'd all be better off if birth were treated as something more natural. I do get a bit envious of homebirth stories, and people who visit loving, earthy midwives instead of OB's. I even described my "dream birth" on a thread in our due date club and realized my dream birth was a homebirth (but one without pain, so not too realistic, lol)...I guess that's why I feel conflicted inside, because it's like "well, if I believe these things, am I a hypocrite for not giving it a chance?".

I guess what I need to do is just feel at peace with loving my c/s experience and therefore understandably not-in-a-rush to do anything different this time around. And recognizing that I made a choice for ME, not for "women everywhere"...if that makes sense.

[bwylde]

Hi everyone!

I am due tommorow and it's looking like I may possibly not get my VBAC. Even though I never had a problem with the fact I had a C/S with DS, I am feeling kind of sad being faced with the possibility of another one. DS's was an emergency so I wasn't expecting it, but in a way, knowing I could have one has me filled with odd emotions. I haven't given up on having a VBAC and am still trying to be positive, but I think I need to be open to the fact I may need a repeat.

I thought this would be easier! :LOL Part of me wishes I would of planned it so I would have my little angel right now, but I would of always wondered what would of happened. I've been trying all the things I can to help prepare my body for birth and labour at home but nothing is working. They won't let me go more than 10 days over, but it's looking like Monday could possibly be the big day.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by bwylde

They won't let me go more than 10 days over, but it's looking like Monday could possibly be the big day.

: for your VBAC!

This leads me to a question: for those of you who have had VBACs, what are the differences between that and a regular vaginal delivery? Was everyone told that they wouldn't be allowed to go overdue? Were there certain requirements you had to meet? I'm not planning on getting pregnant again in the near future, but I'm curious about these things. I'm not planning a c-section for next time (I didn't plan one for this time!) and I would like a general idea of what to expect.

[Electra375]

eilonwy -- there isn't a difference in the birth's physical experience between a vbac and a vaginal birth b/c it is a vaginal birth. The difference lies in the treatment of the mother at the hospital. Check with your hospital on EFM w/ VBAC its 24/7 and you can't move when you are hooked up to it. Time limitations, IVs required, and these days you are lucky to find a doc and hospital to allow vbacs period. There is talk about re-instating the once a c/s always a c/s. And as I posted in this forum earlier it probably has to do with the shotty work on stitching mother's up properly.
I choose a homebirth for my vbac to avoid all the reasons I had a c/s the first time around.
Do lots of reading here and on-line in general.
Sorry to take over the support circle thread, but her questions deserved an answer somewhere.
Congrats on babies!!! No matter how they got here, they are a blessing.

[Divina]

I had my c/s in February and know I still have a lot of process to go through with it--we were planning a homebirth. I've been finding little or no support ITRL for dealing with my more negative feelings--it's all "be happy your baby is healthy!" Of course I am, but I have these other feelings too ... am I correct in thinking that this is a place I can work through some of this? I sure hope so--even my friends who have had c/s don't want to hear about it!

Piglet, I can see both sides of what you're saying. Having had three vaginal births and one c/s, I would choose the vaginal birth every time. However, I've had a slow recovery from my c/s and was frustrated by the fact that I had to have one, after what started out as the easiest labor I've ever experienced. I have a pretty low tolerance for pain, but I'd still choose it over c/s, if I had a choice. If you have good support for VBAC and you want to try it, go for it. But you have to be the one to decide--what will you be able to live with, be at peace with, afterward? If you prefer the planned c/s and can be happy that it's the best choice for you, then that's what you should do.

Whoever was having the sporadic bleeding--I had that too. My MW says she sees that fairly frequently in her older clients--I'm 42. She thinks it's a hormonal fluctuation--that our hormones aren't shifting as smoothly as they did when we were younger. Could that apply to you? I had what I think was my first (light) period about 5 months pp. I think nursing for birth spacing only works if your body fat percentage is below a certain level, BTW.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Divina

I think nursing for birth spacing only works if your body fat percentage is below a certain level, BTW.

Whoa! I've never heard this, and never seen it mentioned in any of the info I've read... what's up with that?!? You have to be skinny to not ovulate after you have a baby?

[bwylde]

I think the nursing theory could be correct as I did everything right but got my cycles back early. I've seen reference to it, but can't remember where.

I'm so tired of the attitude in my family that having a c-section is easier. Other than DH and possibly my IL's (who haven't really said anything), the general consensus is "you are f'ing nuts for trying vaginally when you can have a nice easy c-section" : . Mom constantly tells me that she begged and pleaded for c/s's when she was having us. SHe doesn't realize, no matter how much I tell her, it's major surgery that can be risky and hard to recover from.

I had a very easy time recovering from DS but it was still hard. Even though I'm not into asthetical beauty, my stomach is a mess from the surgery and I got a hernia because I didn't listen to the Dr about taking it easy after the birth since I felt so great.

About the 10 day thing here, I think that's basically for everyone (so in theory they're treating VBAC's as normal patients). It was 2 weeks when I had DS, although they were willing to let me go to 44 as they were trying to induce, it just wasn't working. They will induce at that point unless you're a VBAC, which they won't induce for. The reasons why are stupid IMO (they claim they are having less c-sections...whatever!).

The biggest hospital support I had for a VBAC was the OB, who I saw twice the whole pregnancy. When I saw him this week, he didn't sound like he was as supportive, almost like it was a bother to do a VBAC (he just seemed in a bad mood anyway, so it may of been in the interpertation, but it left a bitter taste). I was under the impression that anyone could at least attempt a VBAC. I was concerned because I have vertical incisions as many won't do VBACs with those.

I wish I lived somewhere I could choose my care practitioner or had midwives and/or doulas but those aren't options right now. I have heard by the time I have my next, I should at least be able to chose my OB (after having only one in our community for a long time, they finally have three) and actually see him/her more than once or twice during my pregnancy.

Anyway, my thoughts keep trailing . I'm hoping and praying my body will do it's work or that they will decide to let me go to the 10 days before deciding anything, especially if the placenta is still good. There are no definates in birth!

[its_our_family]

Well, I guess I've got some things to say

Not all of you were around when I had my ds2 Bryce. With Tracy I had a c/b due to failed induction (long story). I was bac with Bryce until week 39. I was struggling with my decision to vbac. I had switched from a mw practice and birth center to an OB practice and a hospital at week 36.

At week 39 I realized my heart just wasn't in it. I had read all the right books, I did the right exercises but nothing made it seem right to me. I had to examine why I was doing it. I realized I was doing it for my ego! So, I contacted my ob and we had the c/b later that week.

I would love to know what a vb is like. Yeah, it scared me to death (the fear of the unknown) but I still wonder.

If we ever have a 3rd child I do plan on vbacing. I feel like it is now something I want and desire.

I have no real complaints about my 2 c/bs. They were good expierences for what they were.

There is pressure here to vbac. There is this thought that if you have a c/b then it is next to impossible to natural parent. Well, it isn't. Just because I had 2 c/bs one planned and one not doesn't mean I'm automatically an Ezzo freak or completely mainstream. The way I parent has nothing to do with how I birthed. I actuallly feel like I placed more importance on bonding with baby after a c/b than I would have if I had birthed vb.

[bwylde]

Megan, that is how I've been feeling. I've been doing everything right, exercises, positions, herbs, ect.... doing everything suggested on these boards and my body still isn't doing anything (by this I mean dilating/cervical changes, baby in a good position, ect...). So people say wait, it will happen, but I usually have such a good sense for how things are and I know my body well; nothing is happening. I'm getting very discouraged and feel like I've been resenting these last few weeks of pregnancy because I'm working so hard to make my body work. I would LOVE a VBAC but I know that I'm still the best parent to my children no matter how they come out. If I do have to have a c-section tommorow, I will at least know I did everything in my power to try naturally and I won't be a failure.

I do know if I need to have another one, I am taking my recovery seriously. I did too much too soon with DS and regret it. I think that caused a lot of my PPD as even though I felt great, I didn't take it easy and thought I had to be superwoman and do everything at once as soon as I could. I know that's why I got a hernia from lifting and doing too much.

I feel like I've been hogging this thread, but I need somewhere to talk about this stuff

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by bwylde

Megan, that is how I've been feeling. I've been doing everything right, exercises, positions, herbs, ect.... doing everything suggested on these boards and my body still isn't doing anything (by this I mean dilating/cervical changes, baby in a good position, ect...). So people say wait, it will happen, but I usually have such a good sense for how things are and I know my body well; nothing is happening. I'm getting very discouraged and feel like I've been resenting these last few weeks of pregnancy because I'm working so hard to make my body work. I would LOVE a VBAC but I know that I'm still the best parent to my children no matter how they come out. If I do have to have a c-section tommorow, I will at least know I did everything in my power to try naturally and I won't be a failure.

Ok, this is how my last few weeks went.

Week 36 2cm dilated and 25% effaced. Baby is almost engaged (he still would pop out if touched) and doing good.

Week 37 no dilation and 50% effaced. Baby is just dropped.

Week 38 fingertip dilation NO effacement. Baby is floating and so high up that they can't feel his head. Baby flips breech and back again. (2X)

Week 39 NO dilation NO effacement. Baby is floating transverse his head is on my right side.

He is flipping between transverse and head down all week long until the c/b. He is head down then but still floating really really high. They talked about breaking my water first to help "induce" but he was so high they were afraid of prolapsed cord.

Yeah, I could have waited longer to see what would have happened. They were only going to let me go 1 week over. Since I was labelled ftp they weren't giving me much hope of a vbac anyway so they were kinda down about it. BUT I knew my body and I knew my baby. Something wasn't right. I started to feel very unnerved about the vbac and called my ob. I had decided that I would be woman enough to know and except what my body was telling me.

Now, I'm not advocating that everyone just go by how they feel and I'm not advocating repeats but you do know your body.

I tried everything (minus acupuncture and moxibustion) to get this kid in the right place but he had nothing of it. I even limited my diet for fear of acidic cervix. My ds1 was never in a good position either and I knew this was the fate of my second baby. Both insisted on being posterior.

Later my ob said she didn't look but wondered if maybe there was a malformation that caused my babes to be posterior and unwilling to commit. I don't know and probably never will.

But I do encouage you to listen to your body. That is one of the things that real anti-repeat pro-vbac women insist you do. LISTEN. If you do that and your body says repeat then what can they say? Not that they have any rights over your body anyway, but you get the point.

Listen to yourself and we'll be here to support you no matter what!!

[TexasSuz]

I agree that the pressure to vbac can be so strong. It is not an option for me because but I would not do it even if it was. A freind of a friend recently had a vbac and the child "got stuck" and suffered injuries. The baby now is facing multiple surgeries and may have developmental problems. The mom wishes she had had a c-birth. Not all vbacs come out okay.

[LisaG]

TexasSuz wrote "The mom wishes she had had a c-birth. Not all vbacs come out okay."

And unfortunately not all c/s turn out ok either. I like this comment I read about birth on another list "birth is as safe as life gets". Kind of sums it all up for me. Who wouldn't want a guaranteed safe, no complications, no long term ramifications birth? It doesn't exist!

ItsOurFamily wrote "But I do encouage you to listen to your body. That is one of the things that real anti-repeat pro-vbac women insist you do. LISTEN."

I really think that's sooooo important! I think that it shouldn't be limited to anti-repeat pro-vbac women - ALL birthing women should be encouraged to do that by ALL birthing women, heck by ALL women - by EVERYBODY And not only that, but we need to respect that listening. Perhaps if more women really felt that they had listened to their internal wisdom (however that appears to each person), and were supported in that process, there might be less angst regarding a perceived less than ideal situation. Maybe. For me personally, knowing a c/s is most likely my best birth option still doesn't eliminate the regret.

It's interesting - IOF wrote: "There is this thought that if you have a c/b then it is next to impossible to natural parent." I guess I assume if someone has a home birth that they're going to AP and BF. But I don't automatically assume that a c/s means the opposite. Probably because I've had friends wind up with a c/s after planned home births. I'm more likely to have that perception (and certainly it's not a correct one) if I hear someone had a hospital birth with high interventions, OR if someone's bottle feeding vs. breast. My own personal assumptions, and oh, how often they wind up being completely incorrect, or at the very least certainly by no means written in stone. Maybe some day I'll get over making any assumptions at all

LisaG

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by LisaG

I really think that's sooooo important! I think that it shouldn't be limited to anti-repeat pro-vbac women - ALL birthing women should be encouraged to do that by ALL birthing women, heck by ALL women - by EVERYBODY And not only that, but we need to respect that listening. Perhaps if more women really felt that they had listened to their internal wisdom (however that appears to each person), and were supported in that process, there might be less angst regarding a perceived less than ideal situation. Maybe. For me personally, knowing a c/s is most likely my best birth option still doesn't eliminate the regret.

LisaG

I agree, I was speaking situation specific

Oh, I also love the quote you have... Birth is as safe as life gets. Very true! Sometimes I think as women it is the one thing that we think we CAN control. I think a lot of us have learned the opposite is true!