Kabbalah

[Whisper]

Could anyone tell me about kabbalah? The fact that Madoona is so into this is kind of ruining this for me but, I am still curious.

What are the "72 names for God?"

[captain optimism]

Kabbalah is Hebrew for reception, as in received wisdom. It's Jewish mysticism.

What Madonna and others are doing is not new. That is, many non-Jewish spiritual seekers have tried to use Kabbalah out of its Jewish context as part of their spiritual search.

Here is a link from a reputable Jewish website with more information on Kabbalah, including links for further reading:

http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

[crazy_eights]

My dh actually started a website to counter the 'madonna/kabbalahcenter-syndrome' for lack of a better word. http://www.kabbalahmadeeasy.com/
Not the definative web-site, but good info there.

[ldsapmom]

Nice site, mom2six. Is your husband a rabbi?

This is my understanding of Kabbalah: There are three spellings of kabbalah, and each refers to a different type of mysticism, if you will. Qabalah is used to decribe the direct connection or communication a soul has with the Divine. Kabbalah generally refers to religious-based Jewish Kabbalah of the Pharisaic Rabbinical tradition (Rabbinical tradition being more oral, not written down, and also more open to interpretation). Cabala mostly refers to Christian-based Cabala which contains aspects of Roman-Catholic dogma.

For some studying Kabbalah moves them from the stagnant worship of synagogue to a more exciting, exotic form of worship and study. This is all according to me, by way of my Jewish neighbor, so there is much room for error!

[merpk]

Originally Posted by ldsapmom

This is my understanding of Kabbalah: There are three spellings of kabbalah, and each refers to a different type of mysticism, if you will. Qabalah is used to decribe the direct connection or communication a soul has with the Divine. Kabbalah generally refers to religious-based Jewish Kabbalah of the Pharisaic Rabbinical tradition (Rabbinical tradition being more oral, not written down, and also more open to interpretation). Cabala mostly refers to Christian-based Cabala which contains aspects of Roman-Catholic dogma.

For some studying Kabbalah moves them from the stagnant worship of synagogue to a more exciting, exotic form of worship and study. This is all according to me, by way of my Jewish neighbor, so there is much room for error!

Minor quibbles ... rabbinical tradition was oral 2K years ago. It was then written down. Open to interpretation, perhaps, but very definitely written.

In re the spellings, since it's a Hebrew word, the variations are kind of arbitrary, ya' know? My understanding is the spelling with the "Q" refers to the New Agey variety, with the "K" is the Jewish variety, and the "C" is, well, perhaps Catholic-involved and perhaps New Agey.

Madonna's variety starts with a "K" solely because the guy who founded the Kabbalah Center is Jewish. An interesting article about Madonna and her "rebbe" originally published in "The New Republic" ...



And in re the studying Kabbalah and the "stagnant worship of the synagogue" ... will just hazard a guess that your neighbor isn't Orthodox ... :LOL

[asherah]

Um.
I am going to quibble, too.
The spellings really aren't really arbitrary anymore, though they may have started out that way. But it is pretty predictable now that K will get you Jewish Kaballah.
Q will get you esoteric/occult Kaballah. Not all of which is "new agey."
C will get you Christian Kaballah. Not necessarily "new agey" either.

"New Agey" is a pretty meaningless term. Better to be specific. There are scholarly works on Kaballah from both Estoteric/Occult/Pagan and Christian perspectives. And they are not necessarily "out of the Jewish context," though some are. I suppose we could start a whole debate over whether Pagan/Esoteric/Christian studies of Kaballah constitute cultural appropriation, but that's a whole nother thread.

Anyway, the Kabballah center that Madonna and other celebrities frequent purports to be Jewish, of course...

However, it has been questioned from all sides. It does some very "unorthodox" things.... (pun intended) including charging some pretty outrageous fees for "enlightenment." It actually reminds me of scientology.. in its emphasis on celebrity publicity and initiation fees.

Anyway, there are lots of good books, depending on whether you want to go with K, Q or C.

[crazy_eights]

Originally Posted by ldsapmom

Nice site, mom2six. Is your husband a rabbi?

Yup!

[merpk]

Originally Posted by asherah

Um.
I am going to quibble, too.
The spellings really aren't really arbitrary anymore, though they may have started out that way. But it is pretty predictable now that K will get you Jewish Kaballah.
Q will get you esoteric/occult Kaballah. Not all of which is "new agey."
C will get you Christian Kaballah. Not necessarily "new agey" either.

"New Agey" is a pretty meaningless term. Better to be specific. There are scholarly works on Kaballah from both Estoteric/Occult/Pagan and Christian perspectives. And they are not necessarily "out of the Jewish context," though some are. I suppose we could start a whole debate over whether Pagan/Esoteric/Christian studies of Kaballah constitute cultural appropriation, but that's a whole nother thread.

Anyway, the Kabballah center that Madonna and other celebrities frequent purports to be Jewish, of course...

However, it has been questioned from all sides. It does some very "unorthodox" things.... (pun intended) including charging some pretty outrageous fees for "enlightenment." It actually reminds me of scientology.. in its emphasis on celebrity publicity and initiation fees.

Anyway, there are lots of good books, depending on whether you want to go with K, Q or C.

Will concede on the "New Agey" v. esoteric/occult technicality. Spent a good decade-plus of my life being "New Agey" and bordering on esoteric/occult, yet never could make the leap. Actually might say that "New Agey" is Esoteric/Occult Lite.



In re the Kabbalah Centre of Madonna and Demi fame, "purports" to be Jewish is the precisely correct language. Philip Berg, the founder, is Jewish, but Jews as a general rule dismiss his center entirely. He himself has been "put in kheyrem" (kind of like excommunicated) by the entirety of the Orthodox Jewish world, and his family in Israel has gone so far as to change their last name so as not to be associated with him. And most of the students/adherents, BTW, seem to be not Jewish. An entirely unscientific statement, I know. But an analysis arrived at through discussions with friends/acquaintances who've passed through its doors (and then been harassed for money).







My comment in re the synagogue & Kabbalah was written in the wee hours, so a minor amplification. Much of Kabbalah involves everyday life, as only a fraction of Judaism is practiced in the synagogue. Starting with the way you put on your clothes to which khallah you cut first at the Sabbath meals (not to mention what position they're in before you cut them) has Kabbalistic intent/energy.

Not that I know much of anything about Kabbalah ... the more I learn of it, the more I know that I know nothing at all ...








Might I recommend for an overview of Kabbalah in your daily life, a book by a good friend (and former meditation teacher) of mine, "Everyday Kabbalah," by Melinda Ribner (with haskamahs by R' Mordechai Tendler, shlita, and others, for the Jewish mamas who might be wondering). Available in your local bookstore, B&N.com, etc ...

[ldsapmom]

You are correct -- she is not Orthodox and she just recently converted. She does not sudy Kabbalah at all, she was just giving me her ideas when it came to why Kabbalah was seeming like a new fad. The synagogue she attends has a woman rabbi -- that is not Orthodox, either, is it? She understands 20% of the Jewish world does not accept her conversion, and she is okay with that. I would say she leans more towards Othrodox values, she is just not Orthodox.

[darsmama]

Not to burst your bubble but Britney Spears is into it too now. (-;

[asherah]

Yes, and Target is selling "red strings"

It is really repulsive to see something so sacred turned into pop-culture crap.

But that is unfortunately what a celebrity-driven culture does.
I hope Madonna and friends will move on to something else soon.

[stafl]

Originally Posted by asherah

Yes, and Target is selling "red strings"

It is really repulsive to see something so sacred turned into pop-culture crap.

But that is unfortunately what a celebrity-driven culture does.
I hope Madonna and friends will move on to something else soon.

I don't really see why it's so offensive. I mean, if it's sacred and holds meaning for you, personally, what difference does it make if a pop-star does it too? And who are we to judge and say they are doing it just because of the coolness factor, or if it really means something deeply spiritual to them? (I must admit I do have my doubts.) My point is, that religion to me is so personal, it doesn't really matter what anyone else is doing or thinking because ultimitely all that matters is my own personal relationship with the Divine. From Mom2six's DH's website: "Spirituality runs deeper than your personal philosophy of life, country of origin, etc. and therefore anyone can access truth if they so desire. "

And just perhaps the whole thing has become so popular because of some sort of heightened awareness of things spiritual, that so many people "hear" Elijah (or whatever) and the Kabbalah is the only place they are finding answers that fit with their other-worldly experiences. If the serious jewish scholars won't accept and lead them, these people end up going to shysters who are only out to make a buck off it.
...and here I am, going back into the whole cultural appropriation debate...oops, sorry!

let me know if you all think this discussion should go in the Religious Studies forum, or if you'd rather keep it here instead.

[LisainCalifornia]

Does anyone know the answer to this question?:

Is Madonna now Jewish since she is so heavily into Kabbalah? I know she was raised Catholic, and she had her kids baptised in a Catholic church, so I am a bit confused about all of this. I saw her on TV last year (talking about her new children's books) and she said that her daughter goes to Kabbala classes after school. Are these classes for anyone, or primarily Jewish people? Has she converted to Judaism?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious.

Hugs,
Lisa

[asherah]

Well, if buying a red string at Target cause Madonna wears one is considered a spiritual experience... whatever.

I don't find it "offensive" just sort of pathetic.
And annoying.

Because I have been reading about Kaballah for YEARS... way before Madonna bought her first bottle of Kaballah water. (Though I am nothing more than a student, and a fumbling one at that. I am just a baby in my understanding and knowledge)

But it IS just sooo annoying when the subject comes up and all I hear is Madonna, Madonna, Madonna. Like the only reason it is significant is because SHE studies it. And again.. she studies it at a place that is... controversial.. to say the least.

And no, I do not believe she has converted.

[LisainCalifornia]

Originally Posted by asherah

Well, if buying a red string at Target cause Madonna wears one is considered a spiritual experience... whatever.

I don't find it "offensive" just sort of pathetic.
And annoying.

Because I have been reading about Kaballah for YEARS... way before Madonna bought her first bottle of Kaballah water. (Though I am nothing more than a student, and a fumbling one at that. I am just a baby in my understanding and knowledge)

But it IS just sooo annoying when the subject comes up and all I hear is Madonna, Madonna, Madonna. Like the only reason it is significant is because SHE studies it. And again.. she studies it at a place that is... controversial.. to say the least.

And no, I do not believe she has converted.

err, okie dokie. Sorry I asked. :

I don't tend to ever be that curious about Madonna, it is just that my 7 year old just bought "The English Roses" and I have read it about 40 times since Sunday. Because of all of this reading of her book and this thread, I was a little curious.

By the way, the book is actually very sweet. It has a nice little story and some funny parts. The illustrations are incredible and unique (not done by Madonna). My daughter loves the book.

Thanks,
Lisa

[darsmama]

I agree that it might be the way and just because a pop singer is doing something that it shouldn't be discounted automatically. I haven't learned a thing about Kabbalah because when Madonna was on an interview last year, her instructor said she was enlightened to the top 1% or something of the class. Like she was more enlightened then 99% of people he worked with. Sorry, but the first thing that popped in my mind was "Her having so much money and being Madonna wouldn't have anything to do with her being in the top 1% would it?"
Oh, I think her name is Ruth or Esther now...I heard a blurb about it on TV.

[merpk]

No, Lisa, Madonna is not Jewish. You have to convert to become Jewish. She has not done that. And the Kabbalah Center (name of the organization she attends, and for an overview, read my link in my previous post) has mostly nonJewish attendees, though some Jews go, too. And they recently started a school for kids, so there you go.







... though DH & I have considered inviting her for a Shabbos meal, as she does live on our block (not that she actually resides in that apartment anymore, but ... you can tell when she's there because the paparazzi are camped outside 24/7) ... and our shul could use a big donor like her ... Michael Jackson showed up at our shul once and never donated a thing, so we figure we're due somethin' ... : ... anyway, we figure a few hours at a tish (Shabbos meal) with DH (who can be quite inspirational when he's on a roll) and she'll be wearing skirts to her ankles and collars to her chin ... :

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by merpk

: ... anyway, we figure a few hours at a tish (Shabbos meal) with DH (who can be quite inspirational when he's on a roll) and she'll be wearing skirts to her ankles and collars to her chin ... :

LOL!

Anyway, I'm not even going to try getting into Kabbalah here (not that I know anything, lol).

[asherah]

Well, gee. Didn't mean to scare anyone.

I guess I didn't realize my dislike of the Madonna-ization of Kaballah would be so threatening to others.

[DaryLLL]

Originally Posted by asherah

Well, gee. Didn't mean to scare anyone.

I guess I didn't realize my dislike of the Madonna-ization of Kaballah would be so threatening to others.

It didn't sound to me like anyone was scared or threatened, Asherah.

Now that I have posted here, this thread belongs in Rel Studies...B/c I am just that popular.