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I can hear her screaming as I write this..ugh - Page 4

post #61 of 109
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post #62 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife
It is the baby's needs and the mom's desires.
Who gets to define what a 1 year olds needs are as opposed to what their desires are? When a child is an infant, they are one and the same, but at 1, ds had plenty of desires that were certainly not needs.
post #63 of 109

Lets not forget the OP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy
DH is trying to put DD (11 mos) to sleep She is only used to me. Only wants me & refuses anyone else Sometimes though...I just need a break KWIM?. Last time he tried this she cried for an hour & then vomited Of course then I went in & she fell asleep--pronto. I know it's O.K. for her to cry seeing as her daddy is holding her, so Why the heck do I feel SO guilty? Has anyone else had to go through the pains of allowing their dc to cry while their spouse takes over nightime duties? my goal is for DH to put her to sleep on the weekends & I'll do the week. Not sure if it'll work
It seems as though this mama is obviously stressed out - do you really think that continuing to do something that stresses out the whole family is productive? Suggesting alternatives is viable and completely apppropriate...

No not everyone has been in the same situation, but I dont think that its a far cry to assume most of us have had children who at one point or another wants/needs/desires mommy when we feel as though we are depleted and want/need/desire a break.

I think the most productive approach would be to find a way to give everyone what they need. Again, I dont think ZanZan is getting much "me" time during the time her child is in distress with her dh. At the end of the day she is the only person who can decide what is best for her baby and for herself and I think she came here for some helpful suggestions and support.
post #64 of 109
I think we all have enough common sense to discern the difference between a 1yo's needs and wants. A 1yo does not need the latest toy or the candy bar. The 1yo does need to know that Mom will be available all the time. If you reinforce this now, she will be more confident and independent later. If you try to sever this attachment too soon, you will have a different outcome. All babies are different and come to the stage of greater independence at different times. Rather than going by age, you need to go by the individual baby's temperament and personality.

I would agree that it is the baby's desire rather than need if she were just fussing or even crying a little bit. But, we are talking a baby who is screaming, pulling at her hair and face and throwing up. This is not just a little distress. I would say that she is very obviously expressing an emotional need for her mother. Babies and children go through various phases or stages when they are more or less attached to a particular person. If at the time that they need to be attached to that person and that person is not available, I would fear they would learn not to get attached.

I was a single mother for 9 years with my older ds and am a virtual single parent with my baby now because my dh is a Marine and gone a lot. Right now he is deployed to the South Pacific for at least 6 months. So, I know about being overwhelmed and burned out. If you need a break and your dh can't help you, try to find someone else who can. A family member, a friend, a teenager who babysits even just for an hour, as long as your baby isn't left screaming for you.

With this method of having Dad hold baby while she screams for mom, do you think she'll become attached to dad in the true sense of the word or do you think she might come to resent dad for physically restraining her from her mom?

I think many of you are blurring the line between a little bit of crying and fussing and the type of behaviour that signals real distress.
post #65 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven

I think the most productive approach would be to find a way to give everyone what they need. Again, I dont think ZanZan is getting much "me" time during the time her child is in distress with her dh. At the end of the day she is the only person who can decide what is best for her baby and for herself and I think she came here for some helpful suggestions and support.

Agreed Raven. And I am sorry to the OP if some of my posts were too intense.

I just find it quite amazing that there would be no other choice other than to let a child cry like that to get ME-time.

I hope some of the suggestions found in here have been worthwhile. One other thing that I did with my kids, was YES, I did put them in daycare one day a week so that I could peacefully get shopping and other errands done. I did it on a barter with the daycare provider, where I go and help her out with getting all her kids outside for playtime or I will take her DD if she needs me to. This worked out really well, and everyone got something they needed.
post #66 of 109
I'm going to share my experience in hopes that it may help the OP. My DH works alot, many nights he doesn't get home until really late. I know what it is like to be burned out. I've been there too many times, I am the only one who can put dd to sleep, I was so resentful of that fact for a while. I would of loved more than anything on some nights to give dd to dh and have him deal with her. She never went to sleep easily, still never does,is not a great sleeper anyway and has to be nursed to sleep by me. I remember thinking I just couldn't take it anymore. There was some nights I was so angry at dd, it was not a happy situtation, dh would have just walked in the door, I desperantly wanted to be with him, but instead I was lying in a dark room trying to get dd to sleep, a process that could take hours. DD really didn't want anything to do with DH, he couldn't comfort her, most of the time she didn't even want him holding her. Well, what changed? I started enjoying my time trying to get dd to sleep. The daytime is always so hetic, this was our time to relax together, we jwould just lay there and look at each other, I could enjoy sending my little girl to sleep knowing that she is happy because the center of her world is with her, and is happy to be with her. Some nights dh would lay down with us, and have family quiet time, then dh and I could get up and spend time together. Then dd starting demanding dh lay down with us! She wanted him to be with her when she fell asleep, this from a baby who didn't even want him holding her. DH and dd have grown much closer, she is now 19 months and loves her daddy time. Her daddy time is play time, trips to the park, I still put her to sleep every single night, but I look forward to it now. DD accepted dh in her own time, I'm glad I didn't push it. I get enough mommy time now and I enjoy. I know that if dd was unhappy, then I could not enjoy my own time, it would of not recharged me. When dd was younger it was really difficult to get anytime for myself, but even five minutes in a bubble bath can make a world of difference.
post #67 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMB8301
I'm going to share my experience in hopes that it may help the OP. My DH works alot, many nights he doesn't get home until really late. I know what it is like to be burned out. I've been there too many times, I am the only one who can put dd to sleep, I was so resentful of that fact for a while. I would of loved more than anything on some nights to give dd to dh and have him deal with her. She never went to sleep easily, still never does,is not a great sleeper anyway and has to be nursed to sleep by me. I remember thinking I just couldn't take it anymore. There was some nights I was so angry at dd, it was not a happy situtation, dh would have just walked in the door, I desperantly wanted to be with him, but instead I was lying in a dark room trying to get dd to sleep, a process that could take hours. DD really didn't want anything to do with DH, he couldn't comfort her, most of the time she didn't even want him holding her. Well, what changed? I started enjoying my time trying to get dd to sleep. The daytime is always so hetic, this was our time to relax together, we jwould just lay there and look at each other, I could enjoy sending my little girl to sleep knowing that she is happy because the center of her world is with her, and is happy to be with her. Some nights dh would lay down with us, and have family quiet time, then dh and I could get up and spend time together. Then dd starting demanding dh lay down with us! She wanted him to be with her when she fell asleep, this from a baby who didn't even want him holding her. DH and dd have grown much closer, she is now 19 months and loves her daddy time. Her daddy time is play time, trips to the park, I still put her to sleep every single night, but I look forward to it now. DD accepted dh in her own time, I'm glad I didn't push it. I get enough mommy time now and I enjoy. I know that if dd was unhappy, then I could not enjoy my own time, it would of not recharged me. When dd was younger it was really difficult to get anytime for myself, but even five minutes in a bubble bath can make a world of difference.
What a great story!

And I must say that I really appreciate Piglets posts on here! (as well as many others)

This is an AP board and while we all have our needs hopefully we can have our needs filled in a way that works for the entire family. The description the OP gave is of something that is NOT working for anyone. There are other ways to go about doing things and there have been many different suggestions given. And I would hope that we as a community would continue to offer support in an AP way (given that this is what this community is about!)

It's clear that she is saying that what they have done goes against her own heart as well. Why would anyone want to encourage this? She asked for help and support and has been given many suggestions that are things that would not involve having her child scream.

I'm very sad to read of the responses that are saying things like - just give it more time and such. That really falls right into the whole CIO stuff. You know what - this may be true. After some time it may stop. But what damage has been done in the mean time?

I don't think this particular method is something that works for anyone involved. It's not a matter of being a way to attach the child more to the father.
post #68 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
Please tell me that I'm misunderstanding you....do you honestly believe that crying until baby vomits is EVER okay???? You really believe that expecting a baby to go cold turkey from nightnursing is in ANY WAY respectful of baby's needs? Does Sears not emphasize following baby's cues? How could baby possibly be more clear?

I'm almost at the point of tears right now that any mama on this board could think that these methods have ANYTHING to do with attachment parenting.
WOAH!!!! Who said that I was cold turkey night-weaning my daughter???? I'm following Dr. Jay Gordon (very AP- if you didn't already know that too) and his night-weaning advice. I'm following Grace's cues and she seems to be handling this new routine better than expected. If not, I would AGAIN follow her cues and give her what she needs. I NEVER said that a child vomiting is ok. I'm sorry that my terrible parenting skills have brought you to tears. I'm a darn good mother and have never let my daughter cry to the point of vomiting, even in her fathers arms. I was just trying to put myself in Zan's mama's shoes. Darn right, I may do it differently, but I was trying to give her a little encouragement. I have never felt so offended. I am the BEST MOTHER I CAN BE to my daughter. I just was trying to be nice to someone going through a rough time. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't EVER try to think you know how I parent, because you DON'T!!!
I am pg too and maybe that is why I'm feeling so upset. I just think you read more into my post than what was intended. I'm truly sorry that I upset you and so many other people on this board.
post #69 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
...I think many mothers, consciously or not, sort of want to be the "favorite" and the "only." It is very understandable--we give so much, and if we are SAHMs, this is our job! We want to be the best at it. And yet I think reinforcing this is not healthy--for mom, for dad, for the marriage, for the child...
ITA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loraxc
... As an aside, I am bothered by the way people constantly imply that crying, any crying, is terribly detrimental to a baby. Many of us have had babies who just cried, period, and to always be reading about how the crying baby's hormones are raging out of control, her physiology is in crisis, etc etc, is a real guilt-producer and not very helpful...
Again, ITA.

I don't think crying in Daddy's arms is CIO. I don't think that a few nights of having a bout of crying in Daddy's arms causes irreparable to a baby.

But I do think that continually being "rescued" from Father's arms can teach Baby that only Mother can comfort them. I do think that can be a detrimental thing to do to both baby and father in some families. Like mine. I don't think sparing my son a few rough nights was worth the damage being done to his and his father's relationship.

I think is some areas, the "AP answer" is quite clear (like breastfeeding). But I think navigating a realitionship between Baby, Mother and Father is a lot more murky. What is working for one AP family will not work for another.

I just don't think that this situation is the type where you get to rip up someone's AP card because you don't agree with how they handled it.
post #70 of 109
Thread Starter 
Thank You to all of you who gave suggestions & helpful hints as to an alternative way of going about this. The decision to have DH put DD to sleep was not well thought out or calculated in anyway. I was/am burnt out & I truely felt at that moment that he could give her more than I could. Seeing as he's gone most of the time, I have NO family here, all my friends are very mainstream & are NOT supportive of my parenting style---this all falls on my shoulders & I am burnt out. Thankfully DH is open to trying out some of the suggestions. He just wants me to be happy & healthy.
post #71 of 109
Quote:
He just wants me to be happy & healthy.
post #72 of 109
Quote:
I was/am burnt out & I truely felt at that moment that he could give her more than I could.
I know EXACTLY how you feel.....

Quote:
He just wants me to be happy & healthy.
Sounds like a wonderful guy you have there! Best of luck mama!
post #73 of 109
Follow your instincts mama. They are telling you something isn't right.

I know how it is to not have anyone around. I live in Hawaii and all my family and friends are on the east coast of the US. The people I have met here are either not AP parents or didn't have a clue one way or the other about taking care of a baby. On top of that, my dh is now deployed for at least 6 months. I had to search out other people who think like me. I went to a La Leche League meeting. I also went to the Alaska and Hawaii board here on Finding Your Tribe. I have since met some real AP parents face to face.

My suggestion to you on that is to seek out people who think like you do. You need support IRL. Go to a LLL meeting (they are very AP) and tell them exactly how you feel. They really do care and want to help. I know if I were with you and you told me what was going on I would do everything I could to help you. Find your local tribe on here and try to meet some of the other people. Maybe you can start your own playgroup, which might lead to shared babysitting and such.

Here's somthing I learned a long time ago that really helps me. "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am distrubed it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

HTH
post #74 of 109
Arg -- Discussion moving too fast and causing the post I was writing to become obsolete...
post #75 of 109

A Husband's Perspective

I'm the DH of Mammo2Sammo. She encouraged me to add my two cents to this discussion.
Sleep has always been, by far, the most frustrating, exhausting part of parenting our otherwise mind-blowingly awsome kid. Being a part of the whole going-to-sleep routine / ordeal is a necessity for me, not a luxury. DW simply couldn't handle it alone. I don't think anyone could.

In the early months, he would nurse to sleep (always a struggle) or he would let us dance him to sleep; it was difficult but manageable. Around 6 or 7 months, everything changed. Suddenly, we were walking, singing, humming, driving, cajoling, begging, demanding, etc., ad infinitum. We wouldn't know what worked from night to night, and when something did work, we wouldn't know why. We finally got it together around 8.5 months, and I was a big part of it. DW would nurse him or otherwise cuddle him into a relatively calm state, and I had a "funny walk" (think Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks) that worked like magic. Sometimes, we also used Peter, Paul and Mary, Johnny Cash or Nirvana Unplugged (seriously) in conjunction with the "visualizer" function of iTunes to semi-hypnotize him into sleepyness.

For two nights a week, I was on my own, because DW had to tutor in the evening. This was Hell at first, but it got better. As she's since pointed out to me, after a month of it, we had to learn to rely on each other: I was forced to learn DS's cues, and DS had to learn to trust me. Putting him to sleep made me feel like a parent in full, rather than just The Impregnator / Paycheck / Housework Guy. I was an indispensible part of the family unit. It was almost -- from my DS's POV -- as if I had functioning boobies.

But things have shifted again. About a month ago, all our old tricks and routines stopped working. He won't let me put him to sleep anymore. We've changed our routine dramatically; now I give him a bath every night, and read books to him. But I'll always miss the feeling of having him fall asleep in my arms.
post #76 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanZansMommy
... The decision to have DH put DD to sleep was not well thought out or calculated in anyway. I was/am burnt out & I truely felt at that moment that he could give her more than I could. Seeing as he's gone most of the time, I have NO family here, all my friends are very mainstream & are NOT supportive of my parenting style---this all falls on my shoulders & I am burnt out. Thankfully DH is open to trying out some of the suggestions. He just wants me to be happy & healthy.


Sounds like you have a wonderful partner and that you are both really good parents. You'll figure this out, as a family.
post #77 of 109
Hmmmm, see the whole problem I am having reading your well written post is this: Putting Him To Sleep. Maybe I'm a weirdo (quite entirely possible), but I have NEVER *put my kids to sleep*. They go to sleep when they are tired. Even as babies. There were obviously cues that they were tired, so then I would try nursing, rocking etc, and sometimes they just couldn't make the leap from waking to sleeping.

I think sleep becomes such an ordeal because we as parents make it into an ordeal. Sleep is so easy in my house because I have just let my kids sleep when they want. They will tell me when they are tired and will go to bed on their own. Sometimes they are up until 11 at night with me, sometimes they crash at 7. I don't care either way. We do have routine, at about 8:30-9 o'clock it is movie time, and they are expected to not be running about. I'm sure someone could jump on me about using TV at bedtime but I think that may be a moot discussion, as I have happy and healthy sleepers. Neither one of them have had nightmares/terrors, I've never had to fight them to go to bed AND I get my ME time because they are quietly watching a movie and I can go online.

I geuss quite a few of us have younger ones, mine are 5 and 3...but I still stand by the *put kids to sleep* issue. Why do we feel that we have to be in charge of when they go to sleep?

Like I said...I am a weirdo, I'd be interested to hear if anyone handles sleep like I do, maybe it should be a different thread though...
post #78 of 109
wemoon.. I know what you mean. my kids go to sleep when they are tired. my ds needs "put to sleep" though, in the sense that I have to dim the lights, put some music on to relax, and before that I massage him so he goes to sleep nice and relaxed, but this is only done when HE SHOWS ME that he's tired. then I rock him or nurse him to sleep. I do want to say though, you and I have the luxury to be at home, meaning, they can wake at whatever time they want if they go to sleep late, but some mamas have to get them up early for daycare, so I understand sometimes they NEED to put their kids to sleep gently, in order for them to get the sleep their bodies need.
post #79 of 109
I also want to add. in our case, if my children are not tired, they don't have to go to sleep. my daughter has been up until 11 or 12 at night, but she sleeps in the next day so it's not a problem for us. I am not strict about bed times at all.
post #80 of 109
Yes, very true...I thought of that after I posted that I am a WAHM so we can sleep whenever we want, BUT for awhile I did WOH and the kids had to be at daycare at 6:30 in the freakin morning! But by 8-9 at night I was shot, and then we all just went to bed early and woke up early.
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