February 2005 mamas to be Aug.1 - 8 - Page 5

[Lousli]

Shannon,
I don't understand about the spotting thing. Does she mean that if you've had spotting they will consider you higher risk for Down's, or that it will somehow alter your blood test? The doc who did the Nuchal didn't know about my spotting, so I don't think he figured that into the equation. I thought my spotting was just implantation, as it was 13 DPO, but you could be right. I didn't have spotting with my daughter, and all my test results came back okay with her.

I have back to school night tonight, which I am NOT looking forward to in my tired and fragile emotional state. On the plus side, I am comforting myself with pizza for dinner tonight. Not the most healthy thing in the world, but darn it, I need a little comforting!

[Mama2Chloe]

I went to my first OB appointment today! We got our first look at the little angel. Chloe saw the ultrasound and said, "Nemo"! U/S measured 10 weeks and 4 days, LMP was 10 weeks 6 days, so my edd is 27 Feb 05 now. It was so nice to see the little heart beating and see his/her head, arms, body, and legs. I forgot to ask what the heartrate was We are moving to a bigger house and get the keys tomorrow. We hope to be completely finished with moving stuff this weekend. It's happening so fast! I may not have a lot of time to chat for a few days or so. Take care!

[Lousli]

Great news Mama2Chloe! Too funny that your daughter said "Nemo!"

Well, I got one piece of good news in all this mess. I found out that when they do the amnio, they can do something called a FISH test, where they send some of the amniotic fluid to a different lab. It looks for markers for the three big ones, trisomy 18, 18, and 21 (which is Down's). It is a little less accurate than the full amnio (which they will do as well, to confirm) but results come back in 3-5 days!

[shannon0218]

Hey Lesley, yes, any spotting or bleeding during the pregnancy bumps you into a higher risk factor when the do the testing.

[heveasoul]

Hi all!

Not around here much these days...very busy at work, and the computer is the last place I want to be when I get home...plus houseguests all last weekend, etc...

Lesley - hope you're feeling better about all this. Whatever you decide, you have my support. These are all very personal issues, and no one can judge you - it has nothing to do with anyone/anything else.

I met my mw yesterday, and I like her a lot. dh was with me, and we, too, discussed the prenatal screening and diagnostic decisions...much to think about this weekend. My feeling, and his (thankfully!) is to not do any of it, and hope for the best. But there is still much to discuss and digest, so we'll see. I'll have to decide soon, though, because I am 11 weeks today.

Hope everyone is feeling good and starting to enjoy foods and smells a bit more...!

[tug]

since we're all talking about testing...we just got the results of our cvs test. no chromosonal or genetic abnormalities and it's gonna be a girl. it's nice to know BUT we waited ten days (we were told 7) so the last three days have been an agony. plus, we had decided to carry even if there were, so i don't know if it was worth it...but it is nice to know. this, of course, is why we choose to do it.

good luck deciding everybody.

[heveasoul]

tug - wonderful news! Hooray that the agonizing wait is over!! cvs is what I have been offered. Since I am over 35 (36), I can bypass the blood test screening and go directly to the hospital where they do that. We are taking this weekend to decide. At this point, it doesn't look like I will have it done...

[shannon0218]

Morning all. So good news and bad news. The good news is that my bp was completely normal today. The bad news.... Last night the picc line blew up on me, so off to emerg for a new IV, which worked fine last night and this morning but is now blown I'm feeling better but not quite better enough to go without anything fluid or gravol wise--really I'm just terrified of that downhill slide-kwim? So my doc is trying to find out what the chances are of having another picc line placed today (slim to nil) and otherwise, I'll end up back in for another IV (which sucks).
Tug good to hear all is well!! Heve, good luck in your decision. Lesley, what does your mom say about all this with the testing and stuff??

[ekblad9]

Hey ladies, how are you all? I'm doing OK. Waves of nausea. I hope it ends soon. My 20 month old is very demanding lately. Lots of temper tantrums and it's wearing me down.

Shannon - I hope all goes well for you today. What a huge pain in the neck!

Tug - glad to hear all is OK with your tests.

I finally got my hair cut this morning and even got my eyebrows waxed! I feel like a new woman! Glad to be somewhat neat and tidy looking again. Now if I could just get to shaving my legs and painting my toe nails dh might like me again.

[heveasoul]

Oh Shannon - man - you deserve some kind of medal after all this (besides the beautiful bundle at the end, of course!!)!! ((((hugs)))

on the dolling up, ekblad! Must feel good!

[Lousli]

Shannon, I'm so sorry that things are so rough for you right now. I agree with the medal!

About my mom, first of all, she suggested and paid for the nuchal. Then, because she seems to do this a lot, went on vacation! She was onvacation with my dad when my grandmother died. They were on vacation when my dd was born 4 weeks early. And now she is on vacation again and will be still when i have the amnio. Umm...thanks mom. I have already planned to tell her that if insurance doesn't cover it, she gets to pay for it!

[Mama2Chloe]

Lesley- Really cool to hear about the FISH test results coming back so soon. I know that you will rest a little more easily while waiting for the other results to come in.

Tug- Awesome news about your test. It's so cool that you were able to find out that you will be having a little girl! I'll be fining out the beginning of October around my 20 week mark through U/S. I can't wait to find out so I can plan. We will be excited both ways, but look forward to calling this one by name.

Shannon- Sorry you have to go through so much. (((Hugs))) Try to rest and take care of yourself.

As for me, we found out this morning that we will be moving into another house -different from the one we thought yesterday. (one that is right across the street from a great friend of mine) We live on a military base and this one will be ready to move in in 7 - 10 days so it give us time to pack and stuff.

Gotta go, pizza is here. Talk to you all later!

[TexasSuz]

Hi everyone. Still struggling everyday here. If it doesn't get better soon I am going to loose my mind! Shannon, have you been to the hyperemesis website? http://www.helpher.org/

It has really helped me to know that I am not the only one who goes through this during pregnancy. I just wish doctors understood it more and knew how to treat us more effectively. It is so frustrating.

On the subject of testing. Anyone else not doing any tests. We did not do any last time and don't plan on doing any this time (just the sonogram). The results would just cause me to worry and I am committed to this child no matter what. Just wondering if anyone else turned down the tests.

[Lousli]

Hi there,
I have been reading a lot these past few days, both here and on other boards. I keep seeing people saying that they don't want to have testing done, or don't want to go further with testing, because they wouldn't terminate. In no way do I want to be cruel or flame anyone (so Suz, I'm sorry this is coming on the tail end of your post). I'm just wondering, do people really mean that?

I mean, having read about trisomy 13, 18, and 21 (which is Down syndrome) I'm realizing that many babies with the more severe trisomies (13 and 18) don't survive infancy, and have many weeks or months of severe suffering, such as blindness, tube feeding, inability to sit, crawl or walk, etc. Down syndome can vary in its severity, and while many people think that it means that a child will be mildly mentally retarded, it also has the possibility of being extremely severe. So, if you knew that you were facing one of these conditions, would you choose not to terminate?

I guess I just think about it in a similar way to a post I read elsewhere, in which a mom who had terminated a pregnancy said that if their child was in an accident, and was on life support and was suffering, and would not ever get better, they would stop the life support. She viewed termination as much the same thing.

My husband and I have been talking about it a lot since Thursday. We have been thinking about what it would mean to have a child with Down syndrome. That we could easily be facing the next 50 years of caring for a child in our home. That when we are financially or physically incapable of doing so, the care would fall on our older daughter. That our daughter's personality and future might forever be altered because of the added responsibility of being the sibling of a special needs child. That the financial, physical, and emotional toll on our marriage and family would be huge.

I may get flamed for this, but at this point, we are very strongly considering termination if we get a positive amnio result. I hope that doesn't offend anyone here, although I know I can't help but run the risk of offending someone. I honestly hope it is a choice we will not be faced with. Every time I read that someone wouldn't terminate "no matter what" I just wonder.

I'm sorry to be so long-winded, but I needed to get that off my chest.

[weesej]

No I would not terminate even if baby had Trisomy 13 or 18. In the last 2 weeks alone 2 moms in our practice have had babies with severe birth defects. The first had a Triple screen and Amnio that confirmed baby had Trisomy 13 and was well aware baby would not survive. She decided to continue her pregnancy to have all the time she could with her baby and birth him at home peacefully and prayed he would be born alive so they would have time together. Her prayers were answered and she had a gentle birth at 35 weeks and her baby boy live 2 hours, she held him skin to skin and even put him to breast. Her other children were able to meet him.

Just last Saturday we had a mom birth at 44 weeks with a known anencephalic baby. I was at her US at 40 weeks since her midwife couldn't find a head. Nor could we on the US. She had her baby girl at home and she lived 24 hours.

I also worked with a mom a year ago whos previous baby had been a highly suspected Trisomy 18 but she refused amnio to confirm. When baby began to go downhill at 32 weeks she had a Cesarean so she would meet her baby alive and spent 3 hours with her daughter.

I am awed by the strength of these women and feel privliged to know them. Our babies have been given to us for a reason and I beleive we should take them as they come and acknowledge the blessing that they are, even if that blessing comes with pain and hardship.

[AmBam]

I am one who chooses to do NO prenatal testing. I ended up with one ultrasound with my last pregnancy per my mw request to rule out twins. I won't be doing anything with this pregnancy.

This is my opinion on the whole termination thing. I don't want to offend anyone. This is just my view. I would NOT under any circumstance terminate a pregnancy. I believe that babies are gifts from God sent specifically to the parents they were meant to be with. I personally could never do it even if I knew my baby would have severe birth defects, downs, ect. I don't feel that it is MY place to terminate a pregnancy. I would be taking a life. I think that God knows what he is doing and that if I were to have a child with defects that that was the plan He had in store for me. I think that everything happens for a reason. Even if it puts a strain on me or makes my life more difficult. Those things help me become who I am. I am not saying that it wouldn't be very very difficult especially knowing most of the pregnancy that my child would have defects. But I personly would deal with it and prepare myself the best I could and love my baby no matter what. No matter how long it lived, no matter what problems it may have.

This is just MY feeling on the subject. Lesley, I hope things work out for you and you aren't faced with that decision. This must be a very difficult time for you.

[shannon0218]

Lesley, I've thought alot about it too (and in no way am I offended) I guess what bothers me is that you can't know how severe it will be before termination. Yes, if I knew for sure that the baby would suffer/not live beyond infancy/never be aware of his surroundings I would terminate, but I couldn't do it if I didn't know that. I went to school with a girl who's younger brother had downs-fairly bad and this girl cherished her baby brother in a way I've NEVER felt about my own brother. She was an outstanding individual and still is. She is a physician now specializing in special needs children. I was in awe of her ability to be a responsible adult one minute and then the next just get on the floor and be a silly kid. Her little brother holds a full time job that he's had for 7 yrs at our local Loblaws, is it a wonderful job, no, he brings in carts, but he's good at it, he's proud of what he does, he lives in an apartment with 2 other guys with downs. I'll tell you, I've often seen him drop what he's doing with his carts--sometimes at a very inconvenient place because he saw an elderly person or a pregnant lady trying to put her own groceries into her car, he will run over and help. He's not the smartest fellow, but he's got a heart of gold and our entire town (at least until it grew big time a year ago) knows his name and talks to him. When he was born, they were told he would not live past 2 yrs. I guess I just think that the world would not be such a nice place without him, I know I can see him when I'm in a bad mood and be smiling for hours and do something nice for someone else just cause I saw Eric and he flashed me a big smile and wanted to come see the dogs. For me, I can't think of downs without thinking of him. I think another big thing for me with not being able to terminate is that I have lost so many, after all that, to loose one on purpose I just don't think I could do it.
I guess for me the other part is that just cause these tests come back normal is no guarentee of a healthy baby. There are other risks that can't be tested for. My old doctor stopped practicing when her baby was born without a brain stem, he lived 4 hours. She had had amnio, numerous U/S's, you name it, she was told her baby was perfect, so I guess there are just no guarentees.
One other thing, this is something that nobody who hasn't experienced losses would think about. Over on the loss board, we have women who've had miscarriages and some who've had still births. After my third miscarriage, I found myself jealous of the women who had still births or babies who died shortly after birth--reason, they got to meet their babies and I never did. They got to put a face to their grief, they got to hold them, touch them and take pictures of them. I would give anything to have held even one of them for just a minute (and no, I don't expect anyone that has'nt been htere done that to understand that train of thought!)
So, those are my reasons, for whatever they are worth. I can definitely see both sides of the coin though and totally feel for you. And I know that Steve would be thinking more like you--which is why for me I didn't want to open that can worms that would make me make decisions I couldn't make.

[Lousli]

Shannon,
I also understand your point of view, and that the amnio is no gaurantee of a healthy baby, it is just reassurance. I also wanted to address the part about termination and being able to hold your baby. Well, the great likelyhood is that if I did opt to terminate, I would be 17 weeks or more, and that would mean labor and delivery of the baby. While it hurts to even think about, I would be able to hold the baby and see it, and name it.

I don't think I have the strength of character to watch my infant get sicker and sicker over the course of weeks or months, and finally pass away. That it was it keeps coming back to for me. Down syndrome is more of a gray area, because it it not usually life-threatening. But if we get a positive trisomy 13 or 18 test, I don't think I would be able to handle it.

I don't know what else to say. I have so many thoughts racing through my brain these days. I'm sure I will not be able to make this decision for sure until I am truly faced with it, but I feel that I should at least be thinking about it right now, trying to see what "feels" right.

I'm overwhelmed, actually. I'm trying not to overreact, but I'm dreaming about it at night, and keep coming back to it during the day. It's very hard.

[shannon0218]

I can't imagine how hard it is Lesley, probably, one of the biggest reasons for me (personally) not to test is that what you are going through right now I think would be harder on me than anything else. I remember reading something ages ago that a 3-D ultrasound is almost as reliable as the amnio for finding things (obviously doesn't test the DNA but as far as a visual of the baby) Is that an option that may be easier to deal with?? The biggest advantage being that you would know immediately. Only thing is, Ihave no idea when that would be done to be reliable.
I certainly don't envy you, it must just be twisting you stomach in knots.

[mum5]

Wow, I have just read all of the previous posts, and there are so many differing points of view and they are all really interesting to read. I am so thankful for these boards to be able to get differing opinions, but in a respectful way.

Lesley, I am thinking of you and your husband right now. It is such an overwhelming decision to have to make, either for or against, and whatever your decision it will be right for you and your family. I think I already said that in a previous post, but you know these babies just take away all of your brain cells! That's my excuse anyway.

Shannon ,I totally get your train of thought about wishing that you could at least have got to see, touch, or name your baby. That was part of the discussion that I had with dh about the testing, that if the baby was sick and lived just a couple of hours, or was still born, then at least we would be able to meet him/her.