UC Thread #8, August '04 - Page 8

[Chiromom]

Oh yeah...about transition.

In my first birth which was midwife assisted I had an "anterior lip" and a period of several hours in which I was emotionally freaking out. This wasn't until I was theoretically pretty much 10 cm dilated and felt kinda pushy but when I did it hurt. So, with my permission, midwife checked me and found the lip and then I started freaking out.

In my second birth there was absolutely no transition unless you count thinking I had to go to the bathroom (duh). I freaked when I started pushing without even trying to or meaning to but I only freaked for about 15 seconds and then I felt my pubic symphasis separate and reached down and felt her head and went completely calm. Like surreally calm. It was the wierdest thing ever. Then she was born one push later. I was like "That's it???? No F***in' way!!!! Huh? Okay then, we better get some towels and stuff."

I did throw up in both labors and it may have been at similar point of dilation but I don't know because we didn't check. They were both about 5 hours before the baby actually was born, but I my second child's case, before I even knew I was in labor.

[sprinkle pocket]

chiromom~ thanks for the input! it's good to hear different people's experiences. i definitely didn't expect everyone to agree with my postulations, so thanks for being honest!

madrone.......gentle birth vibes to you.

[cottonwood]

Chiromom, any thoughts on why increased hormonal output would induce nausea and vomiting?

By the way, I have the same pet peeve. What sense does it make to add two weeks to actual age of gestation? Yet nearly everybody does it. So weird.

[3_opihi]

In response to the prolapse question. Maybe "normal" isn't the right word, but instead, "common".

[Kundalini-Mama]

First off, congratulations to tinybabybean It sounded like a wonderful birth

Chandar,
I was snooping around a quiverful site onetime and a lot of women on that site had problems w/prolapsed uteruses (uteri?). Anywho, what they did was TONS AND TONS of kegels. They would get in a position where their butt was higher than their head and just start mad kegeling. They said this helped immensely and avoided any medical interventions.

With that said, go w/your instincts though.

hth
Amy

[Chiromom]

The only "scientific" reason that makes anysense to me regarding high hormone output = vomiting etc... is the forementioned postulation that it is somehow protecting the baby.

I read a book called "Pregnancy Sickness" (can't recall the author's name) by a harvard educated nutritionist (for what it's worth) who theorized that during the time period in which most women experience pregnancy sickness or even just pregnancy related aversions, that critical developmental phases are occuring and this measure is protecting the mom from eating foods that the baby can't handle. She said that many find it odd that even normally "healthy" foods like broccoli are common pregnancy aversion but this is because of phytochemicals in the foods which the adult system can handle but the baby cannot at that point. Her studies showed that women with stronger pregnacy aversions and sickness were statistically less likely to experience a miscarriage at the end of the first trimester when the body is testing the fetus for viability. Hmmmm?

I also read a study once that said that pregnancy sickness actually helps to build a larger and healthier placenta. I don't remember exactly *how* this worked, but I thought it was interesting. I do tend to have large placentas and they take a long time to be expelled post birth (a couple of hours) for what its worth?

I know the tendency for MS tends to be inherited. My mom had pregnancy sickness of very similar scale to mine. She was so sensitive to hormones that when they put her on the pill in the early 70's she was sick just like during pregnancy (hence lots of suprise pregnancies since she couldn't stay on it). My little sister is also pregnant with her first right now and she had high to moderate pregnancy sickness and aversions.

I realize that this is largely anecdotal evidence, but I see so many strong correlations between high hormone levels or high hormonal efficiency (receptors maybe) and pregnancy sickness. I can't explain the whys. It has been so long since my endocrinology class....I forget too much. Plus placenta barian and all. arrgghhh.

Mar

[JesseMomme]

Interesting post Chiromom. I have often heard that pregnancy sickness (morning sickness) was something that was "culturally learned", as in women in the US are 'likely' to get ms as opposed to women in other countries where ms is virtually unheard of. In other words our subconcious is conditioned to believe that the beginning of pregnancy will bring nausea, etc, so that when we get pregnant, we will become sick for a while.

Well all the belief suggestions in the world did me no good LOL. Plus, I'd be sick for a week before getting a postive to show up on a test, so what about those first few days when I think I have the flu or something (that was the case with getting pregnant with Liam lol), and pregnancy hasnt' really crossed my mind. I dont' know, it's a good theory, but I think the whole "our bodies are trying to protect the baby" theory is much more plausible to me. And that people who don't get ms or get mild ms said they did belief suggestions were probably not genetically predisposed to get severe ms, and therefor the 'theory' of cultural condition is proven.

Hmm interesting. I do believe in the power of the mind to influence the body however...perhaps it's a bit of both, or more or less of one of the other for different women...

[JesseMomme]

Oh I forgot to mention, a cool little tidbit I picked up that morning sickness, the misnomer that it is to us, in fact may actually derive from Victorian era semantics where you had the "morning" and the "twilight" of your pregnancy - you'd be sick during the "morning" of your pregnancy.

[majazama]

I have read and felt that when morning sickness occurs, it's because a person is rejecting a part of the idea about being pregnant. I had MS with both pregnancies. worse with my first. With my second pregnancy, I wanted the baby more than I did initially with the first, and I had way less MS. I never even threw up, but gagged a few times.(tmi, I know) I worked on accepting the little baby, and it really decreased my MS.

Actually, now that I think about it, it was more than being pregnant that made me sick the first time. I was living in this apartment with the WORST landlord ever. He would come into my apartment without knocking, and for some reason had to use my shower. I threw up at that apartment way more than I did once I moved (acually, I didn't throw up any more at all)

So, my conclusion is that MS is very emotionally and situationally related.

(sorry if my words are so dissorganized, I have a lot on my mind and lap:LOL)

[cottonwood]

I'm sure that women experience morning sickness for different reasons. I have heard the theory that there are certain natural substances that the baby is not as able to tolerate as others, hence the mother's body vomiting to get rid of them, or giving the mother an aversion to them, or making her feel like crap after she eats them. Make sense. I remember my midwife mentioning dark green vegetables in particular -- and true enough, I have an aversion to foods like broccoli and spinach during pregnancy. But that leaves a whole lot of other kinds of whole foods to eat. Chiromom, did you ever find any that didn't make you sick? Wouldn't it be a disadvantage to the mother (and eventually to the baby) nutritionally and calorically speaking, to be vomiting everything up? That makes no sense evolutionarily speaking, because women who are malnourished have fewer viable pregnancies.

Anyway, to me it's clear that there were also psychological and behavioral aspects to my M/S. I don't believe that morning sickness is inherently part of pregnancy, so it wasn't a simple case of conforming to what my culture was feeding me. But I do know that negativity can have toxic effects in the body, I've experienced that when not pregnant, so it stands to reason that the effect would be even more pronounced in pregnancy, when the body is in some ways less able to deal with it, since its priority is directing energy to the developing baby.

The other thing that I know made M/S worse for me is that I had a hard time adjusting to providing what my body was asking for. I've always eaten breakfast late, for instance, and did the usual three meals a day. When I continued doing that during pregnancy, I got sick. It was hard, and is still hard, for me to put so much awareness toward what I'm putting into my body and when. But I'm kind of forced to if I don't want to feel sick all the time.

[cottonwood]

"I have read and felt that when morning sickness occurs, it's because a person is rejecting a part of the idea about being pregnant."

See, I agree that M/S is often emotionally and situationally related, but I'd say instead, "it can be because a person is rejecting a part of the idea about being pregnant."

Same thing with the notion that all difficulty in labor is due to some "holding back" on the part of the mother. You read this on midwives' lists all the time. It bugs me because when one assumes that the mother's psyche is at fault, the other causes will be overlooked and then won't be dealt with.

[plantmommy]

Now see, in my case, the pregnancy with the most morning sickness was the one that was most wanted! So, I don't tend to believe that it's psychosomatic at all.

[3_opihi]

Mamajaza~ that is really interesting what you said. My naturopath actually told me the same thing recently. Let me tell you why.

My first baby I had no morning sickness. Actually I threw up 3 times, only because the taste of room temperature water was disgusting to me. Maybe it was the chemicals, I don"t know. I was also very healthy physically and emotionally. (getting massage and reiki every day, great nutrition, time for myself, ect.) My partner and I were also very strong at this time and my baby was very, very wanted.

Second baby was also wanted, but came at a time when we we very poor, my body was healing from some health crises and emotional crises. My partner and I were OK, but not at our greatest. I was doing about 35 massages a week, giving WAY too much of myself, and not receiving, if you know what I mean. I really, really wanted my baby...of course I did, and I loooove him soooo much. Don't think I didn't want him. Its just that he came at a more diffucult time in our lives than the first. I had terrible morning sickness throughout the pregnancy.

This pregnancy, my third, was planned, so I was definitely ready. But after I got pregnant I started to feel like I might not have enough energy to take care of 3 kids under age 4. I kinda freaked out. I started having lots of anxiety and morning sickness. I couldn't even eat. I was loosing weight. I started getting yeast infections. Anyways, so now I am seeing a naturopath and an acupuncturist weekly. My body was really, really deprived of nutrients and my meridians were completely depleted. Now that I am starting to heal I feel so much better! No more morning sickness, or fatigue, and emotionally I feel like myself again. My personal opinion is that having the three babies so close together, with some health problems in between has been enormously hard on my body.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say, after all of my pointless rambling...is that in my case, I certainly believe that my pregnancy sickness was more emotional than physical. While I don't think it was so much hormones causing me to be sick, I think it was my body trying to rid itself of toxins (spiritual ones too). Does that make sense? I know not everybody's body works the same way, of course there are probably different reasons people get morning sickness. I jsut think the emotional one is really interesting.

[Chiromom]

There is definitely an emotional component to MS. My MS was always worse when I was most stressed about how rotten I felt. I was practicing full time when pregnant with #2 and found that I was okay with normal adjusting as long as I got replenishing breaks (lying on the floor of the adjusting room between appointments LOL) but I absolutely could NOT handle doing cranial sacral work which is much more energetically based. I couldn't put up strong enough walls to protect me and the baby and I would get really ill for days after. So now I make a practice of never providing energy work type healing during the "critical period". I did a little cranial sacral with my friend's new baby this weekend (* I am 15 weeks or so) and I got a minor headache but was okay. Hooray!

I started every pregnancy saying, I think I will be much better with the MS this time. I know that what we believe will happen does have a tremendous impact on what we experience but......... My belief wasn't enough (for whatever reason) to overcome the biological fact that I was so sick I had to go to my mother's house for three weeks to lie on her sofa while she fed me a took care of the kids. And yes BlueViolet, I did find something that worked, for this pregnancy the magic food was....wait for it......BEEF ROAST! I seriously had it three meals a day for almost three weeks while at my mom's! My mom jokes that we will have to name this baby Angus!

So, yeah...there are physical components (weak immune system, toxicity etc), biological components, hormonal components, psychological components, energetic components...all valid in my experience. I never could find the right combination to not feel miserable and this is the last time for me!!!! I mean it! I can't do it again. It has taught me a lot of compassion and empathy for my chronically ill patients.

[StacyL]

Originally Posted by mamamaya

Actually I threw up 3 times, only because the taste of room temperature water was disgusting to me.

That's so funny! I couldn't drink water either! Made me feel so yucky. I had mostly chocoalte milk while I was having M/S. And sometimes flavored sugar water, especially Fruit Punch Capri Sun and Hawaiian Punch. I know, go figure... I never drank that stuff since I was ten years old!

I had M/S for six weeks while in my first tri, but I never actually vomited. Believe me, I was REALLY sick (thought at times maybe I had food poisoning) but I never actually threw up. I did dry heave a few times, though. I had an aversion to all vegetables and most fruits - very weird. I was very relieved when the M/S went away and I got my appetite back.

I have had a strange attraction to sour flavored candy though throughout my pregnancy - particularly Chewy Sprees and Sour Patch Kids. :

[sprinkle pocket]

:

[Aura_Kitten]

on morning sickness ~

mine was awful until i decided to give in to all of my cravings ~ once i started eating only what i was craving and completely ignoring a "proper, well-balanced diet" my m/s mostly went away, though i still dealt w/ nausea for months.

apparantly my body wanted to detox ~ with copious amounts of chocolate coffee, bacon and fried eggs, steak, and pickles...

[nikirj]

For me, the emotional/mental theory of morning sickness just doesn't work out. With my first, I was sick-sick-sick for a week before I realized I was pregnant (it seriously never even crossed my mind until my mom asked me if I was). I stayed at that same m/s level until week 16. This time the pregnancy is the most wanted and I'm the least stressed, but I'm still the sickest. I'm still a bit sick now at 20 weeks, but until 16 I averaged around 6 barfing sessions a day (as little as 2 some days, as many as 12 others, it depended a lot on how much sleep I got and how steadily I ate).

I had one 'rough' labor (doctor-style normal) and one very easy labor. For me I'm convinced this was due to my mindset and how I was holding myself back the first time, and working with my body the second. I don't know about the m/s=stronger hormone thing, but I do know that I had more and stronger b/h contractions than most people, if that is at all related.

[JesseMomme]

more morning sickness

I too found that ms would ease up for me if I just gave up and went with my cravings. Foods that had a lot of starch (like anything potato: fries, mashed, chips) foods that had some salt (again, plain salty chips) were always my best bet. Next came saltines, but I'd always eat a ton and only felt a little bit better.

It was fustrating when the cravings would change. I remember wanting plain whole almonds, and one day after snacking on them they came back up. Coudlnt' bear to look at the rest of the almonds.

And what really helped...marshmellows. Nearly a whole bag :

[Aura_Kitten]

It was fustrating when the cravings would change...



the same thing happened to me w/ steak. :