UC Thread #8, August '04 - Page 4

[Mama2Lennon]

*mamajaza*
there is a raw food discusion going on in the good eatin' forum (i think)
when my partner was first discussing the raw thing i didn't want to do it because i thought i may be pregnant and didn't think that detoxing would be good for a developing fetus. well, when i read nature's first law, i started to bleed - no baby! i decided right there to go raw. i knew this baby wanted to me to be raw! two months later, the baby came to us. it's challenging but i know it's worth it for the baby!

re: twins
so i guess the only fear with twins is the inability of doctors and midwives to "deliver" a breech birth ...
i remember when i took prenatal classes for ds (with a totally radical womun) that she mentioned an ob/doctor from the early 1900's who preferred breech babies. i remember seeing a video of births happening at Michel Odent's birthing centre and there was a womun delivering twins. the first one was breech and she looked ecstatic! i remember how orgasmic it was to deliver the body and i imagine that having that orgasmic feeling before the burning head feeling would actually be motivating!

[Malama]

Aloha,
Not a UC mom, but an observer.... wanted to chime in about the twins thing, as I'm a mw, waiting on a set of twins (for a hb).

Why they're considered "risky"-
they don't believe a twin mom can make it to term
twin moms have more problems like pre-eclampsia (diet related)
uterus gets so stretched out that they think she'll hemorrhage after the births
more chance of malpresentaions (breech)
more anomalies with multiple gestations
sure there's more, but off the top of my head...

seems like one of the main things for a vaginal twins is that once the first baby is born, they freak out about the 2nd one-- will it come down right, will its cord prolapse, will it turn transverse, will placentas detach because of the reduction in uterine size? I keep hearing stories about moms who are "allowed" a vaginal birth IF they have an epidural ready for the second baby and then they do a c/s for that second one because the docs freak-- imagine healing from a vaginal and cesarean at once?!?!

Personally, i think it's all a crock of sh*t. The power of the mind and body is strong. The particular couple i'm working with called me in early pregnancy, and though they had spoken to several providers, NO ONE told them she could carry her babes to term- they all said she'd be delivering early.
Well let me tell you, this mama is 39+ weeks and still has room (and she's 5'0"). One of her babes is vertex and the other breech. They will both come out fine!

And BTW, there was a link in the pregnancy forum less than a month ago for a site with a bunch of unasissted twin stories-- mostly surprise twins. When the parents weren't fed that fear stuff, the babies came out fine.... something to think about for ALL births - though I think you UC mamas KNOW that!

if you find/ guess/ whatever you have twins. Trust your body. It knows what to do!

[lovemygirl]

Baby turned today--the wrong way!

hey y'all tell me why my baby turned from head down to head up today? I am so miffed! :LOL She (we have no idea if its a he or a she but for clarity I will use "she" since I feel its a girl) has been headdown for FOREVER and today she decides to have her head up near my ribs. I am 33 weeks, I know I have plenty of time for baby to go back, but why on earth would she change now?

TIA

[TRIBE]

Originally Posted by lovemygirl

I had a similar dream about a month or so ago. The baby came out my belly skin too!! The skin just stretched and stretched to where I could see him/her (through my skin) and then all of a sudden he/she was on the outside and I was holding the baby. It was way strange!

I have had a dream like that with all 3 of my previous pregnancies! It freaked my out when I had that with Ethan LOL What was weird was in each one I could see the gender but Ethan was genderless. I am not sure why he just was.

[cottonwood]

Lovemygirl, you seem to have a similar body type and belly shape to me! It's great to be able to see that on someone else and think, "wow, that's beautiful!"

Malama, I appreciate your thoughts about twins, especially because this morning I heard a heartbeat in two different places. Not sure what I want to do at this point -- have a midwife friend listen and palpate? Get an ultrasound? I'm also not sure what I would do about the birth. Maybe be a little more serious about having back-up. I'll keep you all updated. Quite honestly, I think I would prefer a singleton not because of the birth, but because taking care of two babies on top of three other children would be a LOT of work!

[sprinkle pocket]

lovemygirl~~maybe she wanted a different view!

[Malama]

Originally Posted by blueviolet

Malama, I appreciate your thoughts about twins, especially because this morning I heard a heartbeat in two different places. Not sure what I want to do at this point -- have a midwife friend listen and palpate? Get an ultrasound?

Did you listen with a fetoscope? were the HB way far away from each other? Could you have heard your own hb (I know, sounds stupid, but happens!)? Are you bigger than with your other pregnancies? Feeling movements everywhere? Sometimes you can have twins where one is just way back in your body, hiding, and you'd just never know!
If it makes you feel more at ease and you have a mw friend to feel around- then I'd go for it, but that's just me. In our practice we've seriously suspected twins 2X (hb's and all) and they were both singletons.

Good Luck!

[cottonwood]

Malama, can I ask what made you suspect twins?

Yes, I'm using a fetoscope. No, it's definitely not my heartbeat, which is quite slow in comparison. Here's what is making me suspicious: this morning I heard a very strong heartbeat off to the left of my belly button about six inches, and then another softer heartbeat a couple of inches directly above my pubic bone. Just about an hour ago I listened again and heard the first heartbeat a little lower on the side, the second one in the same place, and then sort of inbetween it sounded like an interference pattern, as if they were overlapping. That is also where I'm pretty sure the placenta is though, so I wonder if that could be creating some weird echoing sounds?

I don't believe I'm measuring big, in fact I seem to right on schedule in comparison to my other pregnancies, and I have never had a huge amount of movement -- whoever is in there seems to be pretty mellow. However I could be off on my dates. I don't know, it's just kind of weird!

[sprinkle pocket]

:

[nikirj]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for answering my fetoscope/UP questions in the last thread. I just got back from a vacation (drove 3 days, stayed a week, drove 4 days back) and got a chance to read through all those posts - that was a lot of material! Congratulations to Klothos, Luna13 and Chandar! Those stories were great to read, they all sound so *right*.

About the twins - my mom, who works for Kaiser (won't say where, it is a baby-friendly facility though), says that they will deliver breech twins vaginally but will automatically c-section a breech singleton. That is so weird, IMO. She also says there have been quite a few impatient doctors who will perform c-sections if the second twin seems to be transverse, without giving it any real time. She thinks I may be carrying twins (severity of my symptoms + my size) and I think it is a possibility, plus my 4yo told my 2yo very matter-of-factly that "there are two babies in there." I keep telling my mom that I'd rather be surprised than be sliced open on purpose. She doesn't get it.

About the bleeding - I bled like a very light period through the birth of my second. My mom says she was the same way. I didn't bleed at all with my first, though. Both times the placenta came out within 5 minutes after the baby, which I am thinking is pretty darned fast. I thought that the bleeding with my second was coming from my cervix, not from the placenta. I guess if I'm bleeding the same amount this time I'll not worry, but if it got to be much more I probably would.

In other news, I'm still not feeling distinct movement. I think I am feeling something but it is extremely muffled. I'm pretty certain that the placenta is front-and-center this time around, which would complicate feeling things I'm sure. I felt movement earlier with both of my other two. I'm pretty sure I've felt real movement and a few firmer kicks, but it wasn't the same as the other times. They're always to one side or the other, never in the middle, which is very weird because my abdominal muscle separation is so severe I can pretty much feel my insides with very little interference for about 2 inches down my midline. I'm having trouble connecting to this pregnancy and I don't really understand that, especially since my instinct tells me that we're fine.

[Malama]

We suspected twins with these mamas for different reasons. One was measuring big, and felt a lot of movement all over (i think baby was just posterior a lot). She had a very young one and her pregnancy felt a lot different to her. We also were using a doppler, and they can make sounds echo all over, so who knows. She didn't have an u/s though- as baby got bigger it was "obvious" there was only one.

The other mom was having her 6th baby and measured really big and also she just said things felt "different". She was exhausted earlier and had a lot of water. She did have an u/s and she was just off on her dates (as much as they could tell from a 2nd trimester u/s).

The twins mama we're helping now had an early u/s so, we met her knowing there was twins in there.... but with her, up until recently she's only really felt one of them moving around a lot, because the other was kicking towards her back or something. So I know you don't have to feel tons of movement to have twins.

Placentas sounds different than a hb- they are more "whooshy" in quality, rather than a "beat". I can't tell for sure how close you're talking about- but generally with a fetoscope, the hb will be loudest somewhere and sort of get quieter as you move away from there-- but that is by no means scientific..... Cord sounds are also whooshy.
I know that it's often really hard to tell what's going on when feeling your own belly- it's hard to have perspective when lying down- but they say if you feel 3 poles- or something like that- not just a top and bottom, then you should suspect twins.

HTH!

[sprinkle pocket]

one of my friend's kids was insistent that my friend was having twins, which was slightly freaking out my friend, b/c she knows how intuitive kids are. then i realized her baby was going to be one of two signs, one being gemini (the twins). once we realized that, her dd (not knowing we'd realized the gemini thing, but i guess intuitively knowing her point was taken) didn't talk about it again. she did have a gemini. slightly off from the focus of twin pregnancy, but a neat story.
and now, we return you to our regularly scheduled program....

[madrone]

Hi all. I need some labor vibes sent my way. I went into 41 weeks yesterday and am supposed to start NST tomorrow. Think I will be getting confused on it and going the day after though. Should be able to get through the first NST. It's normally the second that they come up with a problem and start talking induction.

Decided to have some clove tea yesterday because someone here told me that it may help things along, but it didn't. I really don't want to do anything like cohosh or castor oil because I think it should start on it's own. I figured I season with cloves anyway so there wasn't anything really inducing about it. Have spent lots of time trying to do visualizations, but still have a closed cervix. Did lose a little bit of the mucous plug. But if it comes down to the second NST, I'm not sure what to do. I'd rather take cohosh than be given pitocin. My options aren't quite the same here as they are in the states.

[cottonwood]

I really hate that hospitals can throw their weight around like that. It's done here too, the doctor can get a court order to force some medical intervention or get CPS involved. I wonder if anyone has turned the tables and tried to get a court order to force a doctor to either prove that a certain course of action is best, or cease and desist harrassment. Because of course there is usually no proof whatsoever, it's an "educated" guess, and logically guesses be wrong. It's just absurd that a guess or opinion can carry such legal weight.

[sprinkle pocket]

you sing it blue violet!
madrone~i'd been thinking of you lately, wondering if you were blissed out in your babymoon. i feel for you it sounds like france has put you through alot, when all you want to do is lay on your porch in your pool and birth your baby peacefully. i don't know that it can be rushed. i know you know that and are just feeling the pressure from the hosp. i wish they weren't trying to force the situation. i'm sorry that they're putting that on you. i keep picturing you running away to some remote villa and having car trouble, so you can't leave and then you get the uc you've been imagining (except away from home).

someone who recently posted belly pics on this thread had a link from the pics to birth affirmations. maybe something in there will help you find the answer you already have inside?

maybe lots of visualizations and talking to the baby, explaining that she/he mayn't feel done being inside you, but that the alternative is the docs forcing him/her out and that if she/he is able to find it in herself to come out, you'll make sure she gets lots of quiet mama time to finish growing like she is trying to do inside?

gosh, it's a tough situation, isn't it? maybe pamamidwife or someone with experience will chime in with some words of wisdom.
i'll be rooting for you! let us know how it's going for you.

[Hathor]

Originally Posted by FowlMommy

Maybe if I just show them the pee test stick...?

Janet

I considered taking a picture of myself pregnant while holding up a newspaper with the date on it. Like a hostage photo as proof of pregnancy...
but the list of requirements for CA is much more than that: It has to be a doctor or a CNM with proof of pregnancy, and then a pediatrician proof of birth within 10 days! The paper I have says that if you don't have those than the hospital discharge summary is required! duh? :
Your other option is to allow your case to be referred to the Public Health Investigation for corroboration and decision, you will have to have 3 notorized letters from friends attesting to your pregnancy. You have a year to do that. OR after a year you have to register by form to Sacramento for a Delayed Registration of Birth.
Iam at 6 weeks pp and still haven't done anything yet, I have a proof of pregnancy from a lay midwife and a pediatrician visit at 12 days pp. Both are not what they specifically require, so I'm thinking rather than marching down to their office now, I might wait until I'm less in the miracle of birth phase. Sending the delayed birth form to Sacramento sounds pretty good right now! Remember they may make you work for it, but they have to let you have one! It's your baby and everyone needs a BC...
Heather

[Mama2Lennon]

*mamajaza*~ when I saw your signature reading "born in the caul" my first thought was that it was something pagan, something to do with cauldron, meaning home. A day or two later, I happened upon a definition in a midwife/homebirth book. It said that it meant being born with the amniotic sac intact. I wonder how does that happen? : What I mean is that I cannot picture a baby being born still surrounded by their sac. Is this when the waters explode at the same time that the baby is birthed? I am really interested in this new bit of information. That is what is so great about MDC, I am always learning something new! I hadn't heard the term freebirth before either.

on another note - there is a womun named Jinjee that you can find at www.thegardendiet.com who has an e-book she wrote about her last pregnancy and birthing (fourth child). She was totally raw for this pregnancy (she wasn't able to be 100% for the other three) and birthed with only her partner present. It is a great story, even if for only the birthing part. Another raw womun Hygiea Halfmoon, has some great birthing stories in Primal Mothering. I really like the term Primal, more like instinctual, not "natural", it seems more true to me.

[Aura_Kitten]

~~~ labor vibes for those who need them ~~~

here are some links ~

http://www.mother-care.ca/affirmations.htm
http://www.mother-care.ca/birth_quotes.htm

[sprinkle pocket]

thanks for those links, klothos. i esp. love all the birth affirmations!

[majazama]

mama2lennon born in the caul CAN mean that the baby is born entirely within the sac... but it can also mean that the baby's head is born within the sac, but the sac bursts before the rest of the body comes out. My babe was born with the sac around her head, and it burst as I felt her head through the sac, before her body emerged.

Freebirth is the term that Jeannine Parvati Baker uses and I prefer that to Unassisted birth. www.birthkeeper.com, is her site. She is one of the pioneers of "unassisted birthing".

I did check out that site (jinjees) and they seem like happy healthy people. Looks like they live in the jungle??? I'm jealous.