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Sposies, Sposies EVERYWHERE at a LLL meeting!?!?!?!?!?!? - Page 6

post #101 of 166
Jodie, there are moms in LLL who cloth diaper too, but they are mostly the same moms in the AP playgroup and API group. I cloth diaper, but I use disposables sometimes. For some reason at LLL, I rarely change the diaper during the meeting even though she is wearing cloth. I always feel like a chicken with my head cut off, so I usually don't change the diaper until everyone is gone and I have a minute to not pay attention. I usually bring along a couple of cute diapers, but they sit in the bag. It seems like the moms in our LLL and AP groups are more into cloth diapering for the frugal aspects, so no one notices the diapers anyway. Mine are all pretty old anyway, but they are still cute to me.
post #102 of 166
"I think it is very interesting to see names I have never seen posting on this thread. Seriously, I don't even feel like some of these comments are being directed at the OP, but at the Diapering board as a whole"

I really think you are misinterpreting. Just because some people have a different view, doesnt mean they are visiting here to get at anyone, least of all the diapering board!!

I'm sure if you only visit the diapering forum, you wouldn't recognise my name. But I cloth diaper, and I use the forum, and when I can, I give answers to people's queries. If someone asks what they use to stuff FB at night or what their favourite pocket diapers are, if I see the post and there aren't many answers, I will reply. But I don't post on fluff threads as I am not a hyena. Simple as that. But diapering moves fast, and threads are lost fast. Names like mine wont' be well known because of that, but I've been here long enough to remember Heather. In fact, I bought my first stash of diapers from her.

Attack the diapering board?? I love the diapering board, even though I am not a hyena. It is one of my most useful sources of cd information. Why would anyone want to attack the board? That makes no sense to me at all.

I also believe that most people who aren't interested in diapering have their New Posts filter out diapering threads, so it seems unlikely that they are rushing over here to attack anyone. If they want excitement I imagine they are hanging out at Activism right now. Believe me, there's much more action going on there if you want to pick an argument.

Different views on a subject do not equate to attack. They are just differing views.

And as for being offended, if you had a ton of disposable users here saying they are offended, I could believe that to be true. But the people who are posting to say that they think the OP harsh seem to also be saying they are cd users. (like myself).

Anyway, it seems that most people see nothing wrong with the OP's attitude, so there you go. I personally find even some of the smilies used to anyone who questions her quite rude and prevocative. Such as and Hardly the image of gentleness, imo.

But as someone said, this thread is leading nowhere..............
post #103 of 166
Wow, that took a while to read through.

I can totally understand Melanie/OP's surprise at the double standard. Here were a group of women that were tearing apart another mothers' use of jarred food (even organics) because of the chemicals but then have disposible diapers (which ARE full of chemicals and honestly does anyone NOT know that?) on their own children. No, I don't think that being as a LLL meeting would automatically mean everyone should be using cloth (a little surprising that there wasn't any). I think it was more the general attitude of the group that is disappointing. It didn't sound like a very friendly and supportive group honestly.

I am surprised at the number of people that I see that post to the hot topics but don't seem to take the time to post to the 'help me" posts. There are a lot of those posts that don't get the proper number of replies. And it's very sad.

I'm kind of curious how many of them also use disposible nursing pads that are full of chemicals? Those DO leave a chemcial residue on the breast and all of them say you should wash the breast before offering to the child. That should DEFINITELY be a concern for BFing moms. Those little things that make you go hmmm...

Melanie- I'm sorry that you weren't able to find some IRL CDing moms or even some FRIENDLY people at your meeting.

ETA: Wanted to clarify that the "them" I was refering to using the disposible nursing pads were the women at the LLL meeting.
post #104 of 166
I don't have time to read the whole thread-- I just wanted to say that I think everyone has their pet cause, and maybe theirs is bfing, not diapering. I do think it's funny that they were complaining about jarred babyfood though! lol!

BTW I bottlefed both kids, and I also cloth diapered both kids from birth.

post #105 of 166
"I am surprised at the number of people that I see that post to the hot topics but don't seem to take the time to post to the 'help me" posts. There are a lot of those posts that don't get the proper number of replies. And it's very sad."

Wasting my time here, I know, but as I've said several times, I really don't think this is true.

Maybe the reality is that some of us who are dissenting here are not posting mainly on diapering because diapering is not a big topic for us. It's something we do, are interested in, but not enough to post a ton on the board about. That is certainly the case for me, but does it mean that I have no right to express an opinion about this topic? I don't comment much about fluffy mail or new stockings because I am not that interested in either. But I am interested in cloth diapering as a NFL issue and in gently helping others who might wish to make the switch to cloth.

As I just said, I can help someone who asks about pocket diapers and a few WAHM diapers, but that's about it. I am not enough of an expert to give people detailed advice about a newborn stash (although if it is something specific that I know about, eg recently about wonderoos, I post becasue this is something I am doing myself, have been researching, and have questions along with some answers for others.)

Maybe then, those who are finding the tone here about non-cd users uncomfortable are less passionate about cloth diapers and so are seeing the whole picture more completely. ie, how these women at the LLL meeting, or anyone reading here, may feel having someone either IRL or on this board talking about them this way because they don't make the choices that we have made.

I really think that if you take the line that anyone who is not in agreement with the majority here is just out to cause trouble, you are missing the important point that many of us are trying to make.

How many of us are perfect? I put all sorts of poisons into my first child's body via vaccinations, before I read enough from both sides to really understand what I was doing. I did, however, know more about nutrition, and fed all my children only breastmilk then organic foods. It did not occur to me that disposable diapers were full of chemicals though! Maybe that was obvious to most of you, but it had not truly occurred to me. Everyone around me used them, and I had never seen a modern cloth diaper. Several people have made that point, but it seems to go unheeded here.

Was I hypocritical, or just a little imperfect?

That is the point that some of us were trying to make. To just ease up on these mamas who don't meet with your ideals. Sure, the disappointment of the OP is understandable, but to attack them this way, and to then dismiss anyone who puts an alternative point of view as being here simply to make trouble, shows a close-mindedness imo. Saying that it's fine to talk about non-cding mothers this way here because it's a diapering forum is missing the point. Intolerance is intolerance.

Now, to have phrased the OP differently - eg: to invite a discussion about why so few mums have learned about cding, using the example of attending the LLL meeting, would make for a far more interesting and useful debate imo. The people we should be criticising should surely be the people promoting these disposable diapers and giving out their free samples to hook parents. Not those who honestly have never even seen any alternative.

With this, I"m leaving this thread. I know I"m heavily outnumbered here.
post #106 of 166
Yes, I read the whole thread.

The OP does not know who was watching while she changed that diaper. Personally, finally caved to cloth when the LLL leader at a meeting (and I don't go regularly at all, but was just looking to be out of the house and there was a meeting that morning) changed her DD in the middle of the floor, and it just looked so easy, and I'd always thought it so complicated ... and then I started hanging around this forum occasionally. And a kind mama here helped me buy a cheap starter stash with an easy payment plan (we're not in good shape financially) and got a few larger size hand-me-downs a few months back, too ... anyway, you may think their noses went up, but you don't know. Really. And maybe you put an idea iin someone's head ...

And no, I don't post in this forum too often. And only started CD'ing to any degree a year ago.

And BTW, the LLL leader who I first saw uses a service, and any CD'ing mamas I've met IRL either use a service or have their own washing machines and dryers ... I do not have my own machine, must use public machines. I do not have any child care, and must take all my kids with me to do laundry. And I do not have a car, so must haul it all ... laundry, detergent, preschoolers, toddler, and now babe-in-sling. So I no longer totally CD. Am 50/50 ... on a good day. Which I personally think is quite an accomplishment.

I've educated myself, I care about my children, but there's only so much I can do.

Am leaving out the other AP "standards" ... some I meet, some I don't.

Judgmentalism doesn't help anyone, and doesn't make converts, either.

post #107 of 166
I attend 3 different LLL meetings. I would say that about 30% of the moms CD to some degree. I do not as I have yet to find affordable diapers to fit my toddler who has a 28" waist and thighs like tree trunks. And as a SAHM, I don't have a lot of extra $$ for a bunch of custom made diapers. It makes me sad because those cloth potty trainers are so cute and I would love to use them.

But I can sympathize with the OP. I met a mom at a LLL meeting and assumed that she would be AP and pretty liberal. She turned out to be a huge racist who spanked and fed her kids trash all day long. It was a little startling. I have learned that BFing is something we will all have in common. Anything else is gravy.
post #108 of 166
lilyka, are we the ones she meant? lol, omg. the dipe forum is where i got to know you. wish we had a post count for how many diaper posts we have collectively (counting my 3000 pre-crash, lol- less time with two babies, it will take me awhile to work up to your kind of numbers.) strangers to this forum we are not.

please britishmum, don't go. you may be outnumbered but i think you are making very calm, well-mannered excellent points.

i know a number of people who cd but don't come here much anymore. what was a 'hey, aren't these great?' addition to the choices has become de rigeuer, & it does sadden me to see moms with questions about getting started (beyond what's 'hot' that day) get buried beneath 16 pages of fluff (literally) threads. i try to catch those and help when i can, but it's a lot harder to find them these days.

(and yes, i remember the rubber duckies in the back pages of mothering all those years ago, lol, but i stuck with 2 nikkis & an aristocrat. talk about budget!)

i wish budget considerations for the board (i know what's paying the bills, sigh) would allow the diaper forum to be what it once was (perhaps a sub-forum for the hyenas?) to put things back in proportion. i wanna see what new dipes are out and what prints are available and who got what? THEN i wade thru a page of ads.

i need to know how to get the stink out of my pail or what is least leaky in the opinions of most people? boop! the diaper forum, plain & simple. most newbies to the game uninterested in the hype are not going to know enough to search the archives- they'd like a real live cding mom as a confidante to get them started.

(and if anyone is calling lilyka a newbie here without a right to an opinion... good god. she is the cd queen. how much of what you read has to be hyena fluff not to know that?)

post #109 of 166

I too think that Britishmum has some good points. As for the cd forum being *all* about hyena dipes....have you taken a close look at all th posts? Sure some are fluff posts, what is so bad about enjoying cding? There are also many practical posts about how to make cding more enjoyable and more functional. As we move into a new season we need to know how to prevent compression wicking so there is one about wool and fleece pants. Which WAHM makes the most affordable best performing wool and fleece pants?

As for newbies...*many* posters here make a *huge* effort to help them out so they can get started easily. 2 months ago I came here knowing *nothing*. Now, I answer the newbie posts with ease. How could I have done that unless all the regulars on this board helped me through? I have never visited the archives.

One new mama just posted a hello I'm new here and didn't even ask any Q's. She got two pages of welcomes!

It saddens me to see this "I've been here longer than you so talk to the hand" attitude here. This forum is about cloth diapering. Like it or not there are some talented WAHM's staying home with their babies making awesome diapers! They are talked about on this forum with near equal frequency as new ways to fold pre-folds and how to get rid of the stink in my hemp.

If you are truly hanging out here on occasion I think you would see that the conversation is not all about hyena dipes. Occasionally everyones cd's are working great and we don't get a newbie for a day or two so hyena dipes may have more posts dedicated to them. It does not mean we are ignoring newcomers.

I hope this thread will eventually die with grace and all of having learned something.

I agree with everyone who said we shouldn't judge mamas who don't cd. I just don't think that was what the OP was doing. I think she was upset and came here to share her frustration. So, I guess, in a way I agree with most of the posters on this thread.
post #110 of 166
I just wanted to volunteer a big group hug! I know I personally (being the owner of a few too many hyena dipes) felt attacked, but maybe I was being a bit too sensitive. My favorite thing about this board is that I am constantly learning, even when I think I know it all I am so grateful for the gathering of smart mommas that enrich my life every day I've been visiting this board for a little over a year now and it has evolved with the times. I too long for things to be a little less about fancy expensive diapers and more about NFL. I don't think the OP meant anything bad when she posted, and I don't think those who expressed differing opinions were necessarily attacking anybody...perhaps just "venting" a little frustration too. Okay then.... If all us cloth diapering weirdos don't have eachother...who else will we have??
post #111 of 166
Wonderful post Stacey

post #112 of 166
lol, i hope i didn't come across as 'talk to the hand'. and recently i have seen more outreach efforts to the newbies (thanks for the efforts, guys!) but to be told i've never posted here before (if i was one of the ones meant... or lilyka!)

the only thing being an oldtimer here is relevant to is a) like it or not, when someone posts things that are critical, it seems a lot less rude if it's *not* their first posts, & b), it does give some perspective.

i would probably not have gotten as involved in cding as i did had the emphasis been so purely on stalking in the beginning. and when it got that way, i drifted off & my 6 years of cding experience was gone (boo-hoo, i know.) but even if you would rather not ever see my contentious butt in here again, a lot of other great mamas drifted off then, too. great mamas who even enjoyed great, cute, popular dipes, but could not get into the whole hyena thing.

i mean, i was happy when i got my fmbgs, but i wouldn't have hung around my pc slavering, waiting for the opportunity! it's NOT that there is something wrong with that, if that is your hobby. it's when it became the focus of the whole dang forum & people who were in it for purely the comfort & environmental reasons got shunted aside. i could never wrap myself around 'cute' trumping soft, ecologically sound, affordable diapers.

if there were 3/4 questions/discussions relating to cding, to 1/4 hyena (oh GOD, who came up with that term? i was around but forget) posts, these irritations & leavetakings would never have come up. (that seemed like a sensible ratio to pull out of my hat, lol.)

but the whole point has gotten lost. no way is yet another diaper-snipe post in line with the philosophy of mothering magazine. those of us who have been reading the mag for (yikes) going on twenty years can't help flinching at a trend that in no way reflects peggy o'mara's initial vision.

well, *i* hope the thread doesn't disappear. questioning the status quo has been part of mothering from the beginning. if you believe you are right, tell us why (i thank the mom who said she'd be just as happy if the LLL had all been in gerber birdseye- paraphrased, lol- and the mom who said they *have* been making an effort to stay on top of the newbie questions more. these are valid answers! thank you for taking this seriously enough to answer!)

is the fact that i'm not in the market for more diapers really enough to make me unwelcome in the diapering forum? questioning consumerism is par for this board and the magazine in every forum but here.

negative comments directed to mamas like my old diapering bud lilyka & excellent britishmum because they are making a point one doesn't agree with are depressing to me. i wish more of you could've been around when lilyka posted the bulk of her 3000+ diapering posts, lol, she was always an inspiration.

anyway, i hope i have been clear enough, even in my irritation when it seems like NO ONE IS LISTENING, that bashing the diaper forum & my fellow cding mamas is not my intention. whimsy, i'm sorry if i misread (i didn't assume anything, i thought i read it that way, as did the other ladies who addressed it- no time right now to reread)
your story about lunch. i'm glad to know you don't think the world hates cding mamas, lol! (a secret- at playdates i've been disappointed when there weren't as many cloth diped babies as i'd have liked, too. and before they started leaking to high heaven we always wore the red fb to the dr's office to show off.)

shalom, suse
post #113 of 166
I really dont want to keep bumping this thread cause it seems pointless to me as nothing is going to be "settled" ... but just wanted to point out I think its wrong to assume this forum is all about consumerism and thats it. I just searched through 4 pages of post and found 66 cloth diapering related posts to only 10 Hyena posts. And by Hyena posts I mean talking about hard to get diapers, ANY stocking (hard to get or not) and the daily fluffymail posts. Thast not a bad ratio IMO and pretty standard unless there is a stocking that day. Of course on days that big stockings happen there are more posts about it... thats to be expected.
post #114 of 166
Everyone has made some really good points...
Now I wish this thread would DIE ALREADY!
post #115 of 166
I want this thread to die too if only for the OP but I cannot not respond, sorry…

I am really tired of the threads/posts about consumerism and the cheap shots at how much some mamas spend on CDing. Okay, it is established – consumerism is bad and some mamas buy too many dipes. We are aware of this, have you seen “The Wagon”? Unless these mamas are asking for *your* help, let’s just keep your thoughts on “diaperism” to yourself. I mean, if not, what is the point?

The PF/plastic pant mamas post about how Hyena-mamas are elitists and how the whole forum is about stalking and each time this subject comes up someone (like Tiffany) comes in w/ actual posts and stats to show otherwise. Maybe the Mamas “feel” this way, feel left out b/c they aren’t doing the hyena-thing but I don’t think they are truly being shunned.

I said this in jest a while ago but if you feel strongly about this, post your concerns in Activism and think of constructive ways to help stop consumerism in diapers. I don’t think posts here are constructive. Hyenas will stop when they are ready.
post #116 of 166
Posting again to add two things.

I wonder if this is unique to diapering. BW is becoming more popular and mamas are beginning to post "show their stash" threads. Sure, you only *need* 1 sling and some slings cost more than some people spend on a week of groceries but I dont get "why" this matters to those who only have 1 sling. YK? I am curious to see if the same thing happens.

I am so bugged by this and I guess it is because *most* of us are practicing NFL and are pretty "green" or aspire to be. Sure, I can go on about how long I have been here and how long I have read Mothering and how I washed at a laundry mat for 7 months and that we recycle and freecyle and are vegan and on and on just so everyone knows how hard-core I am but *WHY* should I have to.

I am constanly justifying my CD stash and I am sick of it. Feeling like I need to explain that most of my dipes are from WAHM trades so people don't think I am a consumerist pig that they need to "save" or worse...that I am not following Peggy Omara's vision.
post #117 of 166
hey! I have a wild ducks fruit print!!!

Seriously, though, if I had not found a cder IRL, I might have gone looking for one at a LLL meeting, and been disappointed. And if said LLLers were attempting to portray themselves as all natural, and stuck sposies on their babies butts, I would have thought they were hypocrits.

However. I think this forum sometimes goes off the deep end for natural family living. I cannot bf my newest. He is adopted. It didn't work out. I would not shun someone else for ff a baby in the same situation. Sometimes things just don't work out the way you want them to, and that's it. I often feel cornered here because there are alot of things that my family chooses not to do that MDC (and lots of mamas here) support. I have opened baby food and fed it to my children (usually organic, but still). On the other hand, my dh masticates for our baby. Can't get much more natural than that, yet how many mdc parents do? I have said it before, and I will say it again. I am here about the diapers. I am not here to shoot down other mamas choices.
post #118 of 166
Just another thought that popped into my head while grocery shopping... yes buying diapers in the "hyena fashion" could be considered "consumerism" but if so its a form of consumerism I happily support because its keeping more great mamas home with their babies. I just cant help but feel that the consumerism in diapering is a good thing when it has such a good result for so many WAHMs.
post #119 of 166
Tiffany, your last two post were BRILLIANT! thank you.

I don't understand why people keep refering to past posters and past (past past past) things that went on on this board, the CD board. The past is the past and things will never be the same here as they were years ago...Let's move on.

Who really cares about "hyena" posts or posts about WAHM's, we all use those diapers. So on a CD board, I find it normal to talk about these things, no?!
If they bug you, don't read them. If you don't like the "hyena" talk or the diapers, get over it. To each his own.

post #120 of 166
Stepping back in for a moment to try to clarify.

The reason for people mentioning having been around for a long while is simply that those of us who put forward an alternative point of view were dismissed as being 'new names' to Diapering who were trying to cause trouble.

This is simply not so, most of us are long term diapering readers and contributors to the diapering forum, although (probably significantly) not hyenas. Our point was that our names may well not be 'known' to many of you because we are not into fluff threads.

Nobody posted here to cause trouble, but wanted to offer an alternative point of view. Our point of view does not seem to be popular, but I do wonder how many people have taken time to really consider it carefully, rather than seeing it as an attack, which it is not in any way.

Hope this clarifies.
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