Sposies, Sposies EVERYWHERE at a LLL meeting!?!?!?!?!?!? - Page 8

[ChristinaB]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

ChristinaB, you are confirming what I just concluded.

You say that this was never supposed to be a debate. Anywhere else on mdc, if you post something, you are not surprised if someone picks up on it and debates it. It's the way mdc is as a board - a discussion board.

It wasn't intended to be a debate. A discussion.. yes. Did you ask Melanie/the OP if she intended this to be a debate? No, it was a vent. I see this going no where so I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Britishmum

I don't think that I hurt anyone's feelings. Have you read the posts I made? I do not think I could be any more respectful or polite than I have been. Several people have commented on that.

Maybe I shouldn't have singled you out but yes, feelings were hurt.

Originally Posted by Britishmum

I don't mind one bit people doing that to me - that is one of the reasons I use this board, as long as they are polite about it. If I want to vent about something, and someone comes along and questions why it bothered me and gave me antoher perspective, I would not see that as rude or hurtful, but somethign I can think about and maybe learn from. And I consider that I have said nothing rude or hurtful here. Why would I be rude about cloth diapering mamas, when I cloth diaper myself, and why would I attack this forum, when I love the diapering forum too?!! Challenging someone's thinking is not the same as being rude or hurting feelings.

Again that is how YOU feel, you may like it but it may hurt others... not saying you said anything diretly to the OP (or maybe you did, I don't remember who said what at this point) but people did, bottom line. Not everyone reacts the same or thinks the same and even though all things are open to debate, sometimes I feel people don't take others feelings into consideration before opening their big mouths.

Originally Posted by Britishmum

I will not continue to raise these points, although I think it is a shame as there were a lot of thought-provoking points made here that could have encouraged many of us - including me - to consider our principles and our reactions to others in the cd world and the world in general. It has been interesting that other threads have been started elsewhere on mdc in response to the general content of this one, and people are debating thoughtfully there. I am happy to go there to debate these sorts of issues, now that I understand that it is not wanted by the majority here.

Whaaaa? Ya know for a bunch of caring moms/people that reside at MDC, I sure find it odd to single out one forum or people in the "cd world" :LOL Correct me if I am wrong but most of these "types" of posts get moved to activism anyways so yes, this is a pretty non-debate forum by nature.

[ChristinaB]

Originally Posted by radish

No one says CD-mamas are excluded from debate. But if you want to talk about diaper consumerism start your own thread, it's not nice to rant on and on about how judgemental and elitist the Diaper mamas are.
.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stacey31]

WOW! I am way behind here but at the end of it all, I am wondering how CDing is a PRIVELAGE & how a few bucks for some loads of laundry each week is more costly than sposies.

Believe me, I have been B-R-O-K-E & CDing was always cheaper than sposies.

[Britishmum]

I will give up. But....

I didn't personallly even mention diaper consumerism. Not once. It is no issue for me. I love it that people are so keen on cds, I love supporting wahms myself - and do so with custom orders to wahms when I need diapers! I'm not into stockings or wool or ebay, but I love diapers and have absolutely no issue with consumerism in the diaper world (except for the disposable issue of course). So I certainly won't be starting a thread on the subject in activism or anywhere else!!

And although this is falling on deaf ears, I have said that I have concluded that in Diapering obviously a vent is supposed to stay just as that, and nobody is expected to question it. Fine. That's what I concluded. It is clearly different to most other mdc forums. To now be told that to conclude exactly what so many of you are telling me is just........

As for hurting feelings, I"m sorry, Radish, if you don't consider my posts polite. I don't aim for 'sweet' but I do aim for polite. I have never been called rude on mdc before, so this is a first for me, which is ironic as it is over cloth diapering, something that I deeply care about!

As for productive, you are right, my posts did not turn out to be productive, because clearly most posters here did not want to question the thinking behind our (I mean, all our) responses to non-cd mothers, or the wider issues of why most people do not cd and have no idea of the advantages of doing so

That is why it was not productive, not because I was making either rude or irrelevant points, but because the discussion was not wanted by most people here. As I said, causing offense yet again, because clearly Diapering is not the place for raising such points and a vent is just supposed to be that, period.

So, before I 'hurt' any more feelings by clarifying that I have concluded exactly what you are telling me I will be quiet.

[radish]

As for hurting feelings, I"m sorry, Radish, if you don't consider my posts polite. I don't aim for 'sweet' but I do aim for polite. I have never been called rude on mdc before, so this is a first for me, which is ironic as it is over cloth diapering, something that I deeply care about!

Oops! My last sentence was not directed at you. I didn't say you mentioned diaper consumerism. Your posts just went on and on about a whole bunch of seemingly irrelevant stuff...

About LLL and how the OP should be happy that women are BF. You said people were judgemental and asked why there was so much "snobbery". You asked her to be more concerned about FF than CDs and that while you like CDing but didnt expect everyone to like it too. Honestly, what was your objective?

And again, no one is saying diapering is exempt from debate or discussion. Just that there is a time and a place for it.

[ChristinaB]

Originally Posted by radish

About LLL and how the OP should be happy that women are BF. You said people were judgemental and asked why there was so much "snobbery". You asked her to be more concerned about FF than CDs and that while you like CDing but didnt expect everyone to like it too. Honestly, what was your objective?
.

I don't get it either. I didn't get any answers, just small rude comments throughout the post

[thepeach80]

Wow, I'm surprised they all cded when they seemed so crunchy. Our moms are more mainstream and jarred food is o.k. Besides me, only one other mom cds and she has twin girls! I love seeing their little fluffy butts through their pants.

[Britishmum]

"About LLL and how the OP should be happy that women are BF. You said people were judgemental and asked why there was so much "snobbery". You asked her to be more concerned about FF than CDs and that while you like CDing but didnt expect everyone to like it too. Honestly, what was your objective?"

Actually I did call anyone 'judgemental'. I mentioned that there is a tone to this thread that I find judgemental. There is a difference. eg, I said:

"The judgemental tone, imo, came in with comments about people being hypocritical to talk of feeding organic baby food but not use cloth diapers, because of the chemicals used in disposables. Following that logic, anyone here who injects chemicals into their child along with vaccinations is even more 'hypocritical', or anyone who uses any form of chemical cleaners in their home, or anyone who is not perfect for that matter in any aspect of NFL."

But nobody seemed interested in taking that on board or discussing it.

I did not say that anyone was being a snob. I did ask 'why the snobbery?" in general, to all of us, not to anyone specific nor specifically to this thread. I was also referring to the previous threads where hundreds of posters jump on the bandwagon to slam terrible disposable users.

I actually do find it disturbing that someone can post, anywhere on mdc, that she likes to 'boast her superiority' and that most people saw nothing wrong in that. If that is an acceptable tone to most of you, I'm afraid it is not to me.

"And again, no one is saying diapering is exempt from debate or discussion. Just that there is a time and a place for it."

Yep, which is what I've said several times that I have concluded - that for the majority of posters on diapering, it is clearly not in this type of post. A vent obviously, here, requires cyber hugs and agreement, not questioning in any shape or form. Which is not what is common to other areas of mdc, but I see it is here, and it is clear now that this sort of thread is not the 'time and place' for questioning ourselves or others.

ChristinaB, I do not believe that I have made one 'rude comment'. I have been polite and tried to explain myself over and over again. To little avail, sadly. If you think that questioning thinking is rude, then we have a different definition of rude.

I'm sorry that you think you got no answers. I have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to answer you all and discuss this rationally, but it seems that I am talking into a vaccuum here.

I didnt feel like I received many answers either. For example when I asked how this logic works - if those women at the LLL were 'hypocritical' for putting disposable diapers on their babies bums but organic food and breastmilk in their tums, which so many of you agreed with, does it not follow that every single parent who uses cloth but vaccinates their children and so injects all sorts of chemicals directly into their body, a hypocrite? Just an hypothetical question, and I was questioning logic here not making a statement, before you decide to leap on me for being anti-vacc.........but not one person chose to answer this question. Because, as you say, there is a 'time and a place' for debate and questioning oneself or others, and clearly, this is not the place.

[Britishmum]

"Honestly, what was your objective?"

I missed this question. I think that I have explained this over and over. But if you choose not to accept it, there is no more that I can do. I was responding to this thread the way I would to a similar thread on other areas of mdc, but clearly what is expected elswehre on mdc is not expected from most mamas on Diapering. We live and learn. I will not make this mistake again.

[Camellia]

I will answer the question re: being hypocrytical. Yes, I think it is hypocritical to bash people for their non-natural practices. I do not practice NFL 100% - I try, but whose perfect?

That is why I don't bash anyone who isn't perfect either Its been a few days since I read the OP so I won't even refer to it. I'm just speaking for your Q in general.

I do speak ill of certain practices - sposie using, non-recycling, jarred food etc....

However, I can't and don't speak ill of those who do those things - we can't all do it all. I try my best, but I have been known to occasionally throw away a plastic container with rotting food in it because I am just too overwhelmed with duties to wash it out! (please no flames, I do this rarely) The point I am trying to make is that I don't see any benefit to myself or anyone else in puttin gdown individual people, but feel it is important to speak the facts about certain practices.

I do think its alright to vent shamelessly on occasion Although I feel its important to be as respectful as possible so that the atmosphere of this community is peaceful and one that people can learn from.

[radish]

For example when I asked how this logic works - if those women at the LLL were 'hypocritical' for putting disposable diapers on their babies bums but organic food and breastmilk in their tums, which so many of you agreed with, does it not follow that every single parent who uses cloth but vaccinates their children and so injects all sorts of chemicals directly into their body, a hypocrite?

I dont think it is the same. Most parents here have researched vax and *then* decided to non/delay/selective vax. If an NFL Mama researched CD and decided to not to, yes, I might find it a bit strange.

So, back to my question, what was your objective? Not how you normally post on the rest of mdc but to the OP in particular. I am listening, just not understanding.

[Camellia]

Great post Holli!

That is why I said in my last post - we can generally "judge" certain practices as good or bad (for lack of a better words). However, people are human and every circumstance is unique.

That is why when I go to our local park and I see babies in strollers eating formula from a bottle (yes I saw her mix the bottle) I honestly didn't even think negatively of her in my own head. I like to advocate on a broad scale rather than judge individuals.

And now I am so off topic I didn't even mention diapering!

[radish]

holli
heck no, it doesnt mean you are less of a AP parent!

i really think the OP was just saying it was surprising or ironic that the moms were going on about homemade babyfood and using sposies.

just like if you went to the co-op and people were going on and on about organic foods and pesticides and drinking coke out of a styrofoam cup!

[Britishmum]

Radish, I honestly was not asking you or anyone else to answer my question with the example about vaccs.

I am obviously not making myself understood at all. My point was that none of the original questions I was asking were being answered and that I have realised that in general, in Diapering, people do not wish to debate so therefore my questions went unanswered.

I am not looking for debate here now - I am trying to tell you, over and over, that I realise now that you do not want to debate issues like this here. which is unlike the overall culture at mdc.

With that, I will return to other areas of mdc and will keep my posts in diapering to the point and not respond if someone is ranting, for example, about people who don't attain cloth diapering ideals. That is easy for me to do. I honestly was not coming here to cause trouble, but was anwering just as I would to a rant in any other area of mdc if I saw another point of view that I thought was worth raising.

I'm sure it is as frustrating to others to read my posts, that clearly don't fit with the desires of most diapering posters, as it is for me to post and feel that I am being misunderstood and misinterpreted over and over.

[ChristinaB]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

Radish, I honestly was not asking you or anyone else to answer my question with the example about vaccs.

I am obviously not making myself understood at all. My point was that none of the original questions I was asking were being answered and that I have realised that in general, in Diapering, people do not wish to debate so therefore my questions went unanswered.

I am not looking for debate here now - I am trying to tell you, over and over, that I realise now that you do not want to debate issues like this here. which is unlike the overall culture at mdc.

With that, I will return to other areas of mdc and will keep my posts in diapering to the point and not respond if someone is ranting, for example, about people who don't attain cloth diapering ideals. That is easy for me to do. I honestly was not coming here to cause trouble, but was anwering just as I would to a rant in any other area of mdc if I saw another point of view that I thought was worth raising.

I'm sure it is as frustrating to others to read my posts, that clearly don't fit with the desires of most diapering posters, as it is for me to post and feel that I am being misunderstood and misinterpreted over and over.

Well... excuse me your majesty Maybe no one wants to answer you because you are way out of line and way off topic from the OP. Yes this forum is a part of MDC, does it mean it is going to be a carbon copy of allll the other forums? NO. Thanks for slapping a labels on us that frequent the CD forum If you don't feel like you can debate, why are you still here trying to? No one is stepping up saying they agree with you re: the OP.
ps, you don't have to be rude direcetly to any one person to be rude, your last few posts did the job

[radish]

Okay, FTR, we *do* like to debate. Search Vegan or Wool or Sweatshop and see for yourself. You keep painting this picture of the diapering board being exempt from discussion or debate and it is really annoying.

[ChristinaB]

Originally Posted by radish

Okay, FTR, we *do* like to debate. Search Vegan or Wool or Sweatshop and see for yourself. You keep painting this picture of the diapering board being exempt from discussion or debate and it is really annoying.

I have no way with the words I want to say when I am PMS'ing :LOL I think Regina and I are on the same page!!!

[radish]

and for debates sake, go back and read page 1 of this thread. The first 6 posts are from mamas simply saying what their experience at LLL was. One mama suggests going to an AP group to find CDd babes. *Then* Klothos chimes in with the difference between NFL and BF. Then VillageMama starts in with the rude posts.

Fast forward to page 2 and all hell breaks out. Actually your first post has a judgemental "tone":

Celebrate the fact they are breastfeeding, don't deride them for not following your ideals in natural family living. Please.

Again, what is your point in telling the OP to be happy those babies are BF and not not-CDd?

Aren't there far worse things you could do to your kid than use disposable diapers?

Of course there are, like spanking or CIO (IMO) but WTH does that have to do with anything?? Should I not post about neighbor not recycling b/c there are far worse things to worry about???

And lastly:

For those of you who 'got it' all at once, that's great. But lighten up on those who don't get every aspect right in your eyes, for goodness sake.

Telling someone to "lighten up" is rude IMO.

Is *that* what you are used to out in the big bad (censored) MDC-world?? Post after post dissecting your opponent's posts...no thanks!!!

[radish]

Oh yes, we are. Tiffany bowed out a long time ago and we shoulda joined her

[ChristinaB]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good post Regina

<bowing out> :LOL