Hot Sauce!!! Are You Kidding?

[LittleYellow]

An Article from todays Washington Post. Yet another way to be cruel to children grrrrrrr

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Aug9.html

[sntm]

Anyone else want to crawl into a hole and forget that things like this ever occur? How do people dream up these ways to torture their children?

[kylewilliamsmom]

Goll, it is really sick what people do to their children!

[Clarity]

This article really bothered me. They made the effort to frame it as a debate...and had a sidebar pointing out that VA CPS didn't think it was a good idea...but still made it seem that most welfare agencies didn't have a firm position on injestion abuse and therefore was probably ok. To me it seemed weighted towards showing it as a legitimate method of discipline. The woman who said she only used it on her son in "extreme cases" like calling his sister a crybaby? Or the one who used it on her umanageable *2.5 yo*? I think I'll have to write a letter.


The guy from the Tabasco company was the most sensible of the bunch!

[monkey's mom]

Yeah, if you *only* use it 4 times a year, why are you carrying around packets of it in your PURSE?!

Sick, sick, sick!

[WhimsyTyme]

I'm a hot sauce child....

Writing this is hard, I had to stop reading the article before I made it to page 4.

I was physically abused as a child - severly and reglulary so until the age of 7. During this time my biological father did many things in addition to hitting me, in his effort to prove who was boss.

I vividly remember having my cousin over to play one afternoon. Two things happened that triggered that man that afternoon - first we were giggling while drinking milk with our cookies and spilled the milk, second while we were playing in the den and crawling around my cousin some how got a needle that had been concealed in the carpet stuck through the toe nail of her big toe. HE WAS MAD!!!!

That evening after she left he and the woman that was supposed to be my mom (and protector) took me into our formal dining room. They pulled out two chairs and sat down. I was made to walk around the table until I was told to stop - I believe the reasoning was that I wouldn't have so much energy after this. After a while my legs got tired and I began to slow down and put my hands on the table or wall for support - each time I slowed or touched anything I was forced to take a spoonful of hot sauce.

It is amazing what we remember after 28 years!!!!!

One point I had immediately upon begining the article was this - the parents say it is the only way - so, if they are late to work a few times or don't make thier quota a few times, etc and thier boss tries to talk to them about it - should they have "hot tongue", since nothing else worked?

What about the mistakes (obviously this is one of them) that they make with thier children, as rasing children is a learning process and adults, fo rthe most part, are more capable of learning than children- after so many, should there be someone standing by to administer "hot tongue"?

I pretty much have this rule - I won't give anything to my son that I wouldn't have/eat/drink myself.

Needless to say this whole topic pains me!!!!!

ETA: This practiced was noted in the article as steming from the south - we are from the south.

...

[Magnoliamama]

(((((((WhimsyTyme ))))))))) Hugs, Hugs, Hugs to you. What a painful experience and memory for you - brought tears and made me feel sick just sitting here and reading. Thank you for sharing your story - everyone needs to be aware of the negative and long-lasting impacts of every type of child abuse. I was also mentally and physically abused as a child, and I often hesitate to share stories, even when they could illustrate a point or share a lesson, or maybe even just feel cathartic to me. Hugs again to you.

[ebensmama]

{{{{OH WhimsyTyme!}}}} I'm so sorry you were a victim of this type of abuse. Thank you for sharing your story.

A cousin of ours used to babysit a child whose mother instructed her to use hot sauce and a wooden spoon on the little girl. I don't even remember how it came up in conversation when she and I talked about it, but I asked her if she used them and she nonchalantly said, "Yeah...," and looked at me like it was weird I was even asking. I do not know what on earth makes people think this stuff if OK!

As an aside, she has offered to watch DS for us should the need ever arise. Uh...lemme think...you don't even have good enough judgment to question the use of hot sauce or a wooden spoon, lady! No thanks!

[journeymom]

Yuck yuck yuck. That's cruel.

The neighbor's grandson is 5 y.o. He's been a real handful. He's been "kicked out" (asked to leave) two preschools. I've had him over for playdates with my 5 y.o. ds. and I can concur, he's an imp!

About a year ago they were working with this child behavior therapist who introduced hot sauce punishment to them. I'd never heard of it before. I was horrified. I kept my mouth shut. When we had grandson over for a playdate they encouraged me to use hot sauce if he acts up. Yeah, right, like I was going to do that.

So grandson is visiting this week and I got to talking with Grandma about his behavior. They've had extensive testing done on him (seems the hot sauce didn't help). He had a seizures a few months ago and they now believe he has bipolar disorder.

The poor kid was being punished for something completely out of his control! I feel dreadful for him. This boy is a REAL handful. He's not just spirited. He is very challenging. And his mom was only 20 when he was born, not married, trying to get her life turned around. His life wasn't exactly stable. Mom is getting it together, married a stable, responsible guy, they're buying a house and settling down. Stability, consitancy from his mom and step dad, and good medicine is going to make all the difference in the world for him.

But not hot sauce!!!

:

[Houdini]

Hot Sauce!!! Are You Kidding?

I must have one wierd kid. My seven year old daughter loves hot sauce. This would be a treat not a punishment. Anyway I thought I would add that on.

[tboroson]

Originally Posted by Houdini

I must have one wierd kid. My seven year old daughter loves hot sauce. This would be a treat not a punishment. Anyway I thought I would add that on.

Yeah, me too. My daughter wanted to taste my beer... well, everybody *elses* child who tastes it wrinkles his/her nose and never begs for it again. Not my girl. Now I have to put my bottle on top of the fridge when I'm not holding it. Same with coffee. (Note, neither one was administered as a punishment, they were offered as "You really think you want it? I doubt it - here, see." And, well, I was wrong...) Talia *loves* Indian and Thai food and chili, whatever I'm eating - and I order it hot. I think if I wanted to punish her with something flavor-wise, I'd have to choose something bland like white rice... And she's 2.5! Definately my girl...

However, despite my daughter's oddities, I am appalled by this article. This is just disgusting.

[girlndocs]

My sister used hot sauce on my nephew when he was, I think, 7 or so

I'd never heard of ingestion abuse but I remember thinking when she told me about it that it sounded pretty cruel.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Okay, without trying to offend Christians on this board, I have a genuine, NON-rhetorical question.

Why do so many conservative Christians (e.g., some of the people mentioned in the WP article, the Pearls, and [I think] Ezzo) practice what many of us here on this board would consider to be punitive, authoritarian, cruel, or just outright abusive methods of parenting?

From what I understand about Jesus, he loved children ("Suffer the little children to come unto me for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven," right?) and advocated a form of "gentle discipline," if we are to believe the story about the woman taken in adultery.

I can NOT, for the life of me, see Jesus putting Tabasco sauce on a child's mouth for ANY reason.

Isn't the fundamental goal of almost any Christian to be, well, like Christ? Isn't that why people wear those WWJD bracelets?

If all these things are true, then really -- how do Christians reconcile their childrearing methods with their faith or the example of the man they revere as their savior and messiah?

Explanations, anyone??

[journeymom]

I don't think I could share my theory without offending some fine people here at mdc. I'll just acknowledge that I know what you mean, CB; I've observed it, too.

[wombat]

I just find this practice disgusting and horrifying. Prying open a child's mouth so you can inflict some pain? I'd like to spray a few of those parents with some pepper spray.

If this is a regional practice by a minority while the majority disapproves of it, why isn't there some government campaign against it. It may not technically be against the law but that doesn't mean those government's shouldn't be doing something to actively discourage it.

CharlesBaudelaire, I'd like to know too. I think it just starts with mean, nasty people who look for something vague in the Bible to support what they're doing and gain credibility. And in a religious community, if you have someone in power who's advocating practices like this, it can be hard for followers to argue against one practice without being seen as being against the leader/the religion in general. I think some mean, nasty leaders (religious or otherwise) just take advantage of this and use it further their sick philosophies.

[green betty]

Wow, I hope I didn't wake dh up yelling "evil b***h!" at my computer while reading that article.

Thank you for sharing your experience, WhimsyTyme. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

My *favorite* part was the advice to say "I can hold your hand or your hair" when crossing the street. That woman doesn't deserve to be a mother, much less making money off child-raising books!

[magnoliablue]

Add my kids to the list of kids who would drink hot sauce out of a bottle for fun. Must have been all the Firehouse Hot chicken wings I ate when I was preg with them. They also eat lemons... like you would eat an orange.

This method of discipline, if you can wrap your mind around calling it that, is very old school. I never had it done to me, but had friends growing up that did..same for the wooden spoon treatment. I was fortunate to have parents who would never have thought of doing that, my best friend growing up was not so lucky..I just hope when she has kids of her own she does not repeat this example.

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

Okay, without trying to offend Christians on this board, I have a genuine, NON-rhetorical question.

Why do so many conservative Christians (e.g., some of the people mentioned in the WP article, the Pearls, and [I think] Ezzo) practice what many of us here on this board would consider to be punitive, authoritarian, cruel, or just outright abusive methods of parenting?

From what I understand about Jesus, he loved children ("Suffer the little children to come unto me for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven," right?) and advocated a form of "gentle discipline," if we are to believe the story about the woman taken in adultery.

I can NOT, for the life of me, see Jesus putting Tabasco sauce on a child's mouth for ANY reason.

Isn't the fundamental goal of almost any Christian to be, well, like Christ? Isn't that why people wear those WWJD bracelets?

If all these things are true, then really -- how do Christians reconcile their childrearing methods with their faith or the example of the man they revere as their savior and messiah?

Explanations, anyone??

I think a big part of it (I'm a Conservative Christian) is how certain people interpret the scriptures. Why do you think there are so many denominations out there including 26 different denominations of the Baptist Church? They can't agree on anything. In the verse "Spare the rod and Spoil the Child" some people interpret the rod (Pearls, Ezzos, Dobson) as device used to spank. I believe the Hebrew meaning of "rod" means to guide, train, etc. Of course, I hear it all the time of someone raving about some Christian Leader and of course their friends want to know more. Thankfully our church hasn't been touched by the Ezzos or Pearls. I think they are disgusting.

My sister and I were never given the experience of hot sauce but Mom loved to throw water in my sister's face when she was having a tantrum and we both got soap in the mouth if we uttered a curse word.

[Peppermint]

Why do some conservtive Christian groups do this? I don't know, why does anyone? I think it is a classic case of wanting to do something, and then looking for a reason to back you up (for the leaders) and the followers are abdicating their responsibility by blindly following these leaders words. It is sick. As a Catholic, I feel lucky that we are so connected to Mary, I try to think of what she would do in ceratin situations, or what Christ would do- and you are so right, he wouldn't do these things. The God of the Old Testament might though, that is where these people get their ideas from. Sigh... no real answer I guess, but I tried.

On topic now- I didn't read the article, but I know about "hot sauce treatment", my ex-SIL used it and my MIL told me about it, saying how it was clearly abuse (I agree) but she (MIL) used liquid hand soap in the same way and thought that was a good idea . I have no idea what these people are thinking, but it is truly a sick side of their personalities to come up with ideas like this.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by wombat

And in a religious community, if you have someone in power who's advocating practices like this, it can be hard for followers to argue against one practice without being seen as being against the leader/the religion in general. I think some mean, nasty leaders (religious or otherwise) just take advantage of this and use it further their sick philosophies.

**Well, then I guess I'm back to the WWJD argument again, because it seems to me that Jesus wasn't a lie-down-and-take-it kind of guy. He was, at least to me, a peaceful revolutionary. I guess I just don't get it, Wombat -- or rather, I agree totally with what you said, but I still don't understand how the conservative Christians can justify this to themselves, that's all.