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What the heck is going on here? - Page 9

post #161 of 202
imo, feminism was driven by white, heterosexual, middle class women, and at times, career driven, women for awhile- 70's into the 80's. i think this dramatically started to shift in the early 90's, and is certainly not the case now.
post #162 of 202
hmmmm :
post #163 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mona
imo, feminism was driven by white, heterosexual, middle class women, and at times, career driven, women for awhile- 70's into the 80's. i think this dramatically started to shift in the early 90's, and is certainly not the case now.
An excellent point. The first wave of feminism was undeniably comprised of white, heterosexual, middle/upper class women. The second wave had many "minority" figures but was essentially dominated by white, heterosexual, middle class women. But there IS a third wave that was beginning to grow while I was in college (early mid-90s) that is very different and much more "inclusive." I would recommend the book Listen Up: Voices from the Next Feminist Generation edited by Barbara Findlen to ANYONE interested in the future of feminism. This book opened up a new world for me in college; I was so happy to see that it was re-released a few years ago.

Allison
post #164 of 202
on this point, i would recommend one of my all time favorite books "This Bridge Called My Back" ed. by Gloria Anzaldua & Cherrie Moraga - it's an anthology of writings by feminists of color (much of it critiquing exclusionary mainstream feminism back in the early 80s). also see "Feminism is for everybody" - bell hooks.

i think mainstream feminism is not as exclusionary as it used to be, but it still is not anywhere near as inclusive as it should be, and needs to be. it is a diverse movement (if it is a movement), and i consider myself a radical feminist, i understand that i am on the fringes, and i hope i can continue to push and challenge others in the movement.

to me it is all interconnected. i don't understand feminists who, for example, say they don't care - or don't care as much - about racism because they are into "women's issues?" huh??? (to quote, gloria hull, "all the women are white, all the blacks are men... but some of us are brave.") i don't understand how you can not see queer liberation as a feminist issue. i don't understand how you cannot see fighting poverty as a feminist issue. and the mainstream feminist movement (again, if it is a movement) is still pretty spooked of these things. i mean, hillary rodham clinton is not my poster girl, ok? sorry, i'm rambling today.
post #165 of 202
how about a musical interlude? i just happened to be listening to this song and thought i would share...

"Mary Lou" by Kris Delmhorst

A little girl walked out one day and said woe is me
Things just aren't the way I thought they'd be
So please don't make me turn 30, don't make me turn 16
If the rest of life is anything like what I've seen

Cause I know that I'm a goner and I know it won't be long
Cause I see on every billboard they tell me I'm all wrong
They say you're taking too much time girl, you take up too much space
You better stake yourself a claim before you lose that face

But I see you and you're different and to me you look so free,
You live your life the way you think it ought to be
And your body's not a prison or a weapon or a curse
You say "I'm gonna love each passing year for better or worse" for good or worse

When I grow up I want to be like you, marylou
When I grow up I want to be like you
I want to be a wise woman and a little girl too
When I grow up I want to be like marylou

The little girl said they tell me, "boys will be boys,
You gotta let them take the wheel and let them make the noise,
You gotta let them keep believing you're underneath their thumb
Cause they won't cause you so much trouble if you learn to play dumb."

But I see you and you're smiling, living on your own
Your paintbrush and your poems and you'll never be alone
You've got work to sustain you, you've got friends to hold your hands
You say "life is just as beautiful as I think I can stand"

When I grow up I want to be like you, marylou
When I grow up I want to be like you
I want to do the things that people just don't do
When I grow up I want to be like marylou

A little girl said well tell me, can this be,
Can the world be asking so much of me?
To give up my own body, my dreams and my name,
To give my hands to carrying the whole world's shame?

But you're not your father's keeper, you're not your mother's pain,
You're not your brother's anger or your sister's rain,
You're not your lover's chew toy and you're not the world's excuse,
You say "my life just got so beautiful the day I turned it loose"

When I grow up I want to be like you, marylou
When I grow up I want to be like you
I want to be a wise wise woman, want to be a little girl too
When I grow up I want to be like marylou

lyrics & music by kris delmhorst
© 2000 big bean music/ASCAP
post #166 of 202
This is my first post in TAO! I'm a very proud feminist and raising my daughter to be the same. My MIL keeps telling me that I should "allow" my husband to be the head of the household and he should make all the decisions and I should be doing the laundry and cooking and cleaning for him. Uh, right. The first and last time she spoke of that to me - I told her she could kiss my ass if she thought I was any less than her son. My MIL is hard core Chrisitian and believes that men should always be the head of the household. Puke.
post #167 of 202
You go, Megan!

For those of you into hardcore theory, check out Gender Trouble by Judith Butler. For a more accessible analysis of the construction of gender with a stronger tilt towards science, check out Anne Fausto-Sterling's Sexing the Body.
post #168 of 202
my thoughts are pretty much the same as KatienDwayne except .. i wish i had the choice/option to stay at home ... my dh and i are in the same field and i make the most $$ ... i wish i could be the sahm
post #169 of 202

Just found this thread so I'm signing in, better late than never!
post #170 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlena
Anne Fausto-Sterling's Sexing the Body.
Oooohhhhh GREAT suggestion Marlena...this is an essential book! I loved it when I read it about 3 years ago.

Allison
post #171 of 202
Count me in as one frustrated feminist.
post #172 of 202
Nope, Not a feminist here. Yeah, I beleive men and women are equal and should be paid the same for the same work, so lable me how you will.
I have stayed out of the feminist threads here, because what I see and hear from feminists off line, sickens me lately. I've about had it with the "men are evil oppressors" line of thought. And making a come back- in my area at least, is the "all men are rapists, all heterosexual intercourse is rape" line. Oh crap! Say "all" of any group, be it men,women transgendered,transvestite, arab, black white, hispanic, muslim or Christian ( you get the idea) is anything is just plain wrong and tell me nmore about the prejudcies of the person speaking than the charecteristics of the group they are discribing.
To me it's all about what works for you, as an individual and as a family, if someone doesn't like it ...they need to get over it, not try to force everyone into their little mold.
I don't think women are better than men, more gentle, more nurturing or more sensitive, nor do I think that they would be better at leading the world.
I do think that men and women look at things differently and that makes for some great conversations, great friendships makes the world a more diverse place. There are definately invidual differences in those areas, but there are biological differences in the way hormones and chemicals act on each of our brains. I beleive that nuture can far out way nature, but denying that there are differences can be detrimental to both genders.
It angers me to hear statements like "all men are pigs" or " What do men know?", they devalue men and in doing so I think they also devalue women.
I have no issue with man as head of household.....as long as those who live by that don't expect me to live by it also ( a whole other rant, and I doubt any momma here would go along with some of it) or try to tell me that being celibate is wrong.
For me it's a lot less about being feminist and a lot more about learning to value the gifts each person brings into our lives. I don't know what that makes me, but feminist seems to exclusionary at this time.
post #173 of 202
andi_3k - did you even read the thread?
post #174 of 202
People keep saying they're not feminist, and then they go on to explain why, and not a single line of thinking that they object to is a "feminist" line of thinking.

Feminism isn't about hatred of men. It's about equality between the sexes.

People keep saying that they agree with lines of thinking that are feminist lines of thinking, but they deny being feminists.
post #175 of 202
Ugh...let's step into the 21st century, shall we?

Because you are a feminist does NOT mean you hate men.
That line of reasoning is so frustrating to me and it makes me want to :Puke
post #176 of 202
cherrie moraga, judith butler, all these amazing women.....i this thread!! i am so glad there are other mdc theory/praxis-heads out there!! _this bridge called my back_ is one of my most favorite books.....i'd also recommend _killing the black body_ which is dorothy roberts' exploration into race, gender and the politics of reproduction. she is an AMAZING woman and a great writer.....and if you adore theory- or just want to give yourself a migraine- chela sandoval's _methodology of the oppressed_ and guyatri (spelling!) spivak's _the post-colonial critic_ are amazing commentaries on identity and post-colonialist feminism(s). i am hell-bent on creating links between these ideas and how i raise my son.......

as for the discsussion of power, privilege and identity- the specific area i work in (personal and in school) is feminist disability studies and we are still WAY marginalized in terms of the "identity paradigm"........

peace
h*mama
post #177 of 202
Found this thread late, but I'm just stepping in to say HELL YES I am a feminist!!! (See my signature!)

And I am raising a feminist dd and ds.

And I am very very happy to see this thread here and read all the posts from other feminists mamas. I, too have been shocked by anti-feminist attitudes here at MDC. Glad to see I'm not alone.
post #178 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annais
Ugh...let's step into the 21st century, shall we?

Because you are a feminist does NOT mean you hate men.
That line of reasoning is so frustrating to me and it makes me want to :Puke
You know the odd thing... I was always taught feminism was something that "lesbians" did... not sure why though... but that would explaint he "feminists hate men" idea wouldn't it?

Anyway, I consider myself a feminist. I've softened quite a bit in my old age. I used to be very vocal as a teen. Now I'm just kinda under the surface... kinda like a cold... infecting everyone I see... bwahahahaha....

Anyway, this is an intereting thread...
post #179 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by its_our_family
You know the odd thing... I was always taught feminism was something that "lesbians" did... not sure why though... but that would explaint he "feminists hate men" idea wouldn't it?
only if you believe all lesbians hate men ... which is equally untrue...

Quote:
i am so glad there are other mdc theory/praxis-heads out there!!
yo, i would love to have a little discourse w/ y'all about the praxis of anti-authoritarian gender-bending radical feminist parenting... i would start up that thread right now except it's a bad bad time. way too much to do in the next coupla weeks. i shouldn't get on the computer at all in the next coupla weeks in fact. anyway, i'll start that thread when i come back to the cyberworld, k? if somebody else beats me to it please save some of the juicy bits for me
post #180 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerrillamama
only if you believe all lesbians hate men ... which is equally untrue...
Which is somethign I don't believe...but raised in an ultra conservative area/family I didn't know any better.
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