ARGHHHHHHHHH!! Five-year-old!

[annettemarie]

Michael is standing up in his room screaming at me. I've been cleaning all morning, getting ready for our first day of homeschooling tomorrow. He's been curled up in a chair reading books, tossing them to the side as he finishes.

ME: When you are done with that book, I would like you to take a few minutes to put away all the books you got out.

MICHAEL: I HATE putting things away (Whine whine, scream scream)

ME: Michael, what you have to say is important and I want to hear it, but I can't listen when you speak that way.

MICHAEL: (Less screaming, still sort of whining) Mama, I hate putting things away. It's no fun.

ME: I know, I don't always like to clean up either, but we need to get this big pile of books at the floor.

MICHAEL: (Planting himself on the floor across the room) I won't.

ME: !?!?!?!?! (I was flummoxed)

MICHAEL: (Digging in) You can't make me.

ME: You're right, I can't make you. (Guiding him to the chair) But you know what- nothing else can happen til those books are away. Have a seat.

MICHAEL: (sitting, over the next few minutes) I hate you. You're horrible. You're fat-nosed. Spit, kick, spit, kick, rant, rave, I HATE YOU!!!

ME: (Snapping, I admit it) OK, you know what? I love you, but right now I don't want to be around you, and, since you hate me so much, you obviously don't want to be around me. In our family we all help each other. Since you're being so hateful and don't want to help me, I don't want to help you either. (Childish, I know) Go up to your room and you can just stay there all day if you don't want to be a loving part of our family.

So... he's been up there for a half-hour, screaming non-stop, throwing things, alternately slamming and kicking the door, coming out to yell "I hate you even more now!" and "If you don't let me out I will call you drunken (?!?)" I think he may have just broken something he threw.

You know what? I don't want to be around him right now. Between me and hundreds of MDC members I think he's being a hateful little brat. No, I won't tell him that, but neither am I inclined to let him out of his room while he's acting like such a little monster. Actually, I think I told him he could stay up there all day and his dad would have to bring him food because I don't feel like doing anything for him right now.

Any words of advice while I'm waiting for child protection services to show up in response to complaints about a screaming child? How to we end this stand-off? Do I just let him scream himself out? I truly do not feel like I can deal with him in love right now, and I just need a long time-out from him. I didn't spank him- that's something, right? Please? Anyone?

Annette

[chfriend]

I don't have any advice, but I did want to say I'm sorry you and your little one are having such a rotten day.

[maya44]

[QUOTE=annettemarie]Michael is standing up in his room screaming at me. I've been cleaning all morning, getting ready for our first day of homeschooling tomorrow. He's been curled up in a chair reading books, tossing them to the side as he finishes.


OK here is what I'd say:


ME: When you are done with that book, put away all the books you got out.

MICHAEL: I HATE putting things away (Whine whine, scream scream)

ME: I know, I don't always like to clean up either, but YOU need to get this big pile of books at the floor.

(Note that there is NO disucssion about the whining!)

MICHAEL: (Planting himself on the floor across the room) I won't.

ME: Put away the books

MICHAEL: (Digging in) You can't make me.

ME: You're right, I can't make you, but I expect you to pick them up.

Then I'd either leave the room leaving my request sitting over his head, or if I really needed them put away I would do it and say "It was your job to put away the books not mine. I don't like having to do it!"

I would not respond to anything he says like "I hate you etc..l" (Except to say "well I am sorry about that, I love you) Your message has been clear. You are not saying its OK not to pick up the books.

You may not think this would work, but what have you got to lose. The main idea here is not to engage your child and get sidetracked by talking about how he is whining etcc. It may be this engagement he is looking for. This is about picking up the books. Dont' discuss anything else.

This is a disengaging method I use with my kids. They are really well behaved. Try it, you might be amazed at what happens!

[monkey's mom]

First: BREATHE! In. Out. In. Out. Breathe more.

Why do the books need to be cleaned up right away? Can he do it later? Maybe he really just wants to spend the last day before school vegging out.

If the books need to be cleaned up because you want a clean house, couldn't you just do it? Cheerfully and with love? Model how you actually help each other in the family.

I think you are in a big ol' Mexican standoff and maybe he needs you to back out of it so he can save face. Show him how to do that, and maybe he'll be the one to do it next time.

Just seems like he's really angry (and anger is generally a masking emotion for fear), so nicer (on your part) might be better than more unyielding.

Good luck! It must be something in the alignment of the planets, 'cause we've had a hell of a week, too!

[mamaduck]

First of all, it sounds wretched, I'm so sorry, and I don't think you acted badly at all.

Some ideas though.

1) Sit down with the family and disscuss name calling. In my household, name calling is on par with hitting. We DO NOT call each other names. Its an intentional hurting behavior, and its not okay. Assaulting you by calling you names is as damaging and hurtful and mean as striking you, and its not okay. Its okay to express strong feelings, but its not okay to call mommy fat-nose or whatever.

In my house, time-outs occur for only 1 reason. Hurting behaviors. Hitting or name calling. You hurt someone on purpose -- then you sit. I don't give a time limit -- I ask them to sit until they feel they have control of themselves again.

2) Picking up --

- If my child complains about picking up, I first give them the choice to do it in a little while. For instance, I'll suggest that maybe they need a little "fuel" before they will have energy to pick up, and I'll suggest they get a drink of water or have a peice of cheese first.

- I ask them if they need help from me.

- I try to make it fun. My kids like it best if I time how fast they can do it.

- If all else fails, I will pick it up for them. HOWEVER, I warn them if I have to pick it up, then its going away for a period of time. I phrase it like this, "Its not fair that you made extra work for me and will not help me do it. If you can't pick up your mess, then I will have to do it, but I will put the books up high for a few days and so you will not be able to make a mess with them again. What is your choice?"

Again -- Annettemarie - I think you handled it okay. I do think you can and should get a handle on the name calling stuff though.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by maya43

You may not think this would work, but what have you got to lose. The main idea here is not to engage your child and get sidetracked by talking about how he is whining etcc. It may be this engagement he is looking for. This is about picking up the books. Dont' discuss anything else.

This is a disengaging method I use with my kids. They are really well behaved. Try it, you might be amazed at what happens!

OK, you're right I have nothing to lose!


I will try this.
BUT... what I envision happening is him not really giving a rat's behind whether my request is hanging over his head or not, him going on to play, and the books not getting picked up.
We'll see!
Annette

[allbrightmama]

I am sorry to hear about your stressful day. What a difficult situation you and your son have gotten yourselves into! I have been there (I worked as a nanny for 10 years) and I know how hard it is. In retrospect I could always see where we turned that corner onto Major Powerstruggle Street. Michael took the first step with "You can't make me" and you followed right behind with "Nothing else can happen til those books are away" (How many times have I said those exact words?) Which is of course a very nice way of saying "Oh yes I can." I found the only way out once I had gotten to that point was to start over. I would tell my kids that I was sorry about us fighting, that I reacted poorly and that I love them and wanted us to work something out that would make us all happy. I would ask them for suggestions. I would let them know why I wanted the books picked up. I would ask them how they think I should have handled it. I would apologize and move to their side of the problem. Together we would look for solutions. Should we pick them up together? Do you want me to put a box next to the chair to put the books in? Do you want to pick them up after snack? Should we make it more fun by having a race or me timing you? Sometimes my kids would have very reasonable solutions.
Basically my advice to you is to apologize. Not because he is throwing fits but because the two of you together have gotten into a battle. Then try to work as a team. I would also try to be aware of anything that may be causing tension for Michael. He may be acting out because of something completely unrelated. Most important of all remember that this too shall pass. I hope tomorrow is a better day for all of you! Enjoy your homeschooling journey!

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

Again -- Annettemarie - I think you handled it okay. I do think you can and should get a handle on the name calling stuff though.

You know, I read this and I thought you meant me- I'm sitting here thinking, but I didn't really call him names- I was just thinking them!

You are right about the name calling- it's getting pretty nasty, and I'm not sure where it's coming from. It's not like dh and I walk around calling each other fat-nosed and drunken.

What happened if anyone is interested is dh came home from church, read my OP, and went up to talk to Michael, basically told him his behavior was unacceptable. Michael came down and apologized, and seemed pretty sincere. We gave hugs and kisses, and then his daddy asked him to go up and pick up all the stuff he chucked around his room, which he did with no problems. This was followed by lunch and now it's quiet time, and we'll start all over again in fifteen minutes.

I did end up cleaning the books with Katie Grace (3).

Sigh. At least the baby is preverbal.

Annette

[CerridwenLorelei]

I use GD but I don't understand this

Basically my advice to you is to apologize"

Please explain why the parent has to apologize to the child when the child is the one with the unacceptable behaviour? Does mom not deserve respect too?? what is it I am missing here??

[annettemarie]

FTR, I'm not apologizing

He apologized, I accepted, we can all feel the love

[famousmockngbrd]

CL, I thought the same thing when I read that. I don't see how she owes him an apology.

[mamaduck]

I think an apology from mom would be innapropriate in this situation. However, I could imagine as a mom, calling a "break" from arguing and suggesting that we start fresh from a problem solving approach instead of an antagonistic one. I might say, "Why don't we try this again, and both of us will try to be nice about it?" I wouldn't apologize though.

Annettemarie -- I continue to be impressed with your struggle to discipline gently and the happy solutions you come up with. Its not easy at all, and the fact that you sweat so much over this sort of thing demonstrates your love and comittment to your kiddos. I think you did really well with this.

[annettemarie]

Aw, shucks

This board is a great resource, especially when I'm feeling discouraged. I'll have to try to contribute more when things are positive.

Really, I think half of what is so frustrating is that I used to be so good at this when it was other people's kids I was dealing with!

Anyway, thanks!
Annette

[CerridwenLorelei]

ot

what has happened to all the graphics today?? all i can see is those little red x boxes and texts but no graphics??

[mamaduck]

Oh good, CL, you see it too! I thought something was wrong with my computer!

Annettemarie -- I think its easier in a way with other people's kids because you don't feel so incredibly responsible. As if the problems our kids have are *our own* faults, and as if we are failing as parents and failing our kids. Everything feels so incredibly critical when its our own sweet babies we're talking about, you know?

[annettemarie]

Here I was thinking I just need to be paid!
Annette

[mamaduck]

LOL!! Maybe that would help too!

[CerridwenLorelei]

mamaduck

I was starting to think it was dh;s lt after all even though the other sites I have open are fine..

[allbrightmama]

Maybe my apology suggestion was misunderstood. I am not suggesting annettemarie apologize for asking her ds to pick up his books or for sending him to his room. His behavior was unnacceptable and he should take responsibility for it. I always found that my kids responded best when I also took responsibility for my actions. I apologized for things like handling a situation poorly, losing my cool, not asking nicely... basically when I did anything that I would expect myself to do better. I found that a sincere apology would help break the ice in a battle of wills and allow the child to acknowledge that they also made mistakes in their behavior. Once we were past the hard feelings we were better able to work together toward a solution. If I felt that I had handled the situation very well and the child was throwing a fit I would not apologize just for the sake of apology. annettemarie described one of her comments to her ds as "childish." I am sorry if I misunderstood but I took that to mean that she regretted saying it. She was looking for a way to end the stand off and I was just offering what worked for me.
I am very happy that the situation worked out so well. It was obviously a very emotional situation for everyone and annettemarie seemed to know that everyone needed some space. Parents do usually know what is best.

[annettemarie]

OK, maya43, I must be misunderstanding your disengagement method. At our house, we clear our plates after meals (one of those non-negotiables)
Me: Katie Grace, take your plate in the kitchen to daddy.
Katie Grace: (stares into space)
ME: KG, take your plate in the kitchen to daddy.
KG: I, I, I, I love to do the mambo.
Me: KG, take your.....
KG: (To her brother) Nicholas, booby man!
Me: (very calmly) KG, take your.....
KG: (silence while she practices some ballet moves)
Me: (after a moment or two of looking expectantly at her) KG, take your plate....
KG: (Looking back at me) Do you have two eyes?
Me: (after a few more seconds of looking like I expect her to listen) KG, take your plate...
KG: Eat my shoe! (giggle, giggle, giggle)

This went on for a few more minutes until her father, probably tired of hearing me ask the same question 63 times, came in and said "Katie Grace, you obey your mother right now" AND SHE DID!!!!!

So, what did I do "wrong" here, because I'm pretty sure this isn't right!

Annette