"say you're sorry"

[Karennnnn]

How many of you tell your kids this??
I almost had a debate with dh about it today because we REALLY try to not make Tristan (4 next month) say he's sorry. It's so darn easy just to say you're sorry and of course no one ever means it.
We try to get him to ask if his friend is alright, ask what can he do to make them feel better because of what he did, things like that. I think that way he also realizes he did something that hurt someone else's feelings or their physical self. Just saying you're sorry doesn't necessarily fix what went wrong.
It's a little hard to get a kid his age to do, but I'm really believing in it. I remember when he was in school last year one of the moms told Tristan to say he was sorry to another kid (I wasn't there at the time of whatever happened). Tristan was a little taken aback and I went up to him and told him if he didn't want to say that he could maybe give a hug or ask if she was alright or something like that. Hoping it would rub off....
But am I nuts?
I think in some way when someone says "say you're sorry", it's a little humiliating and of course that's one big reason why the kids don't want to say that. Because of that I also try to give the two kids some space and privacy or tell Tristan I won't watch or listen.
Anyhow I was just thinking about this today because Tristan did SOMETHING to dh (can't remember what) and it was just so stinking sweet when I reminded him of what he could do and say to make David feel better. Those little voices and what they can do and say are just amazing....
So I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this...
Karen

[beth568]

I agree that forcing the words of an apology doesn't mean much. I don't want it to become rote for my DD just to say, "I'm sorry" and then walk away - it's much more important for her to understand what she did and why it may have hurt someone. Haven't quite figured out the best way to approach the situation - when she kicks or bites, or grabs something, I try to immediately take her aside and firmly but gently talk about how the other person feels.

I don't see anything wrong with introducing the concept of an apology a bit down the road, when she's able to understand more complex feelings, but at age 3, my focus is on understanding that her actions affect other people.

[annettemarie]

I know that in our family we believe that restoration is an important part of reconciliation, and so, when things get resolved we say, how can you make things right with ____. Usually the child says they are sorry, often with a hug and a kiss. If they say they're sorry we help them along by asking them to say what they are sorry for, and we then ask the offended party if they forgive the offender. This probably is colored by our familiy's particular spiritual values, but I don't feel that it's coercive or anything. It might go like this:
END OF WHATEVER EPISODE
ME: Michael, how can you make things right with your sister?
MICHAEL: (Giving a hug and usually accompanied with a cheesy grin) Sorry, Katie Grace.
ME: Sorry for what?
Michael: I'm sorry I used your head as a drum. Please forgive me.
ME: Katie Grace, do you forgive Michael?
KG: (Sniff) I forgive you Michael.
Hugs, hugs, love all around.
It works for us!
Annette

[mamaduck]

We don't demand apologies, but I learned from a friend to ask my children to "check in" when they've hurt someone (intentionally or not.) Essentially, I want to teach them that its not okay to keep going and blow off the incident. They need to stop and take responsibility. That doesn't mean they have to force a meaningless "I'm sorry." But they need to stop and recognize what occurred and ensure that the offended party is okay. Sometimes they do choose to say "sorry." Other times they might say, "Are you okay? I didn't mean that to happen." Or other variations. And like every single other discipline issue -- this works best if they see us modelling good manners by "checking in" when we've accidentally inconvenienced or hurt someone.

[Fianna]

This is yet another one of those parenting issues that dh & I differ on. Just this afternoon he made my 2-yr-old apologize to her 5-yr-old sister. He was trying to restore the peace and make sure they were on good terms before he took them swimming and he wasn't "mean" about getting her to apologize, but as an observer I could see that my 2-yr-old completely understood that she needed to say the words to get to what she really wanted which was to go swimming. In that case, it's totally meaningless, IMO, because it doesn't encourage the kind of behavior that I'm hoping for, KWIM?

I really like the "checking in" idea! That seems like a good way to reinforce the respect concept without humiliating the child. I usually focus on the "victim", giving lots of hugs and attention. I try to appear as though my entire attention is devoted to the injured party. We will talk about how much the offense hurt (whether it be feelings or physical). 99.9% of the time the offender is standing close by, listening intently. And 99.9% of the time the offender comes over and apologizes or offers up some other gesture of apology (which we of course immediately accept!).

This system works well for me with my girls, but I must say that I haven't ever been in the situation where my girls hurt someone else's child, so in that case I'd probably have to change things up a bit. Obviously I couldn't scoop up someone else's child and ignore my own, but I'd probably still try to focus on the other child and let me child observe the effects of her behavior.

[Devaskyla]

Thank you for this thread! Dh and I have been making sure ds says sorry and I'm really regretting it now, because he just throws it off like nothing most of the time. It's completely meaningless the way he does it and I have been wondering what we could do instead. Ds regularly injures dh and I and just says "sorry" and off he goes to do it again. Dh has started saying things like "I don't believe you." which we both know is just WRONG, but he's really upset about ds's lack of consideration.

Sorry, rambling. I'll show this thread to him and we're going to work on it.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

My dd's preschool teacher shared with us (all the parents) how they handle this situation at school. I really like the approach because it avoids a forced apology, yet encourages the child to face his or her actions. It's similar to mamaduck's "checking in". When one child hurts another (either physically or hurt feelings), they attend to the hurt child (I'll call him HC) first, of course. But as quickly as possible, they attend to the "offender" (OC), and with a serious but gentle tone of voice and facial expression, they tell the OC to look at the HC. "Look at Matt -- he's crying. Look at him. When you pushed him, that hurt him and now he's crying". These are 3 and 4 year olds, so often the OC wasn't even aware of how his or her actions affected the other child until they are made to take notice. The idea is to help develop the child's conscience so that they *want* to apologize and make things right. Often they offer the HC a hug or a token peace offering right on the spot or later in the day. Even if they don't, the teachers don't demand this. The HC gets comfort from the teachers and often other children who witnessed the incident. In a preschool setting, this is a side benefit -- when the OC is asked to look at the HC, other children sometimes look too, and begin to build empathy and learn from the interactions of others. We've been trying this method at home with our kids. It works better with the 4 y.o. than the 2 y.o., who often could care less that his sister is crying or sad. But forcing him to say "sorry" isn't any better, so we do the "look" method with him anyway. Someday it will begin to have an effect!

ETA: Note that when talking to the OC, the adult sticks to the facts of the situation. There's no "You did a bad thing" or "you shouldn't have". The OC is allowed to think about and draw conclusions about "values" based on the HC's reaction and the seriousness with which the adults respond to the situation.

[wonderfulmom]

"I'm sorry" shouldn't be a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card. And a child who really DID sort of enjoy the excitement of biting and hearing a scream, taking a special toy, etc. is being taught to gloss his actions and their feelings over, and isn't being helped to learn empathy. Thoughtful discussion WORKS. "Sorry" is not for getting out of trouble- which is what many children are taught- it is part of making sincere amends. They should be guided in the discussion, but not ordered/told to say sorry. (Some of them do need a quiet suggestion- 'Now would be a good time to say "sorry", if that's what you were thinking about.')
Also, make sure your children get to see you apologizing when appropriate- to others and to them.

[Karennnnn]

I'm so glad I posted this here!
I posed the same discussion on an email list I'm on and someone reminded me how saying you're sorry when you're not is LYING. So in essence, if we don't expand on the apology we're teaching our kids to lie.
I'd also like to bring this up at my son's co-op when school starts so we have a policy on how to handle these situations.
You mammas have great ways of handling this and I've definitely taken note
Karen

[tinaq]

I like how this board helps us to evaluate the way we're currently doing things & (if it works for us) modify how we're helping our kids grow up. My ds initially would say "I'm sorry," in a somewhat sincere way (of course, our interpretation), but it seems that's now more arbitrary & I'm worried that he's not getting the effect behind his actions. I like the suggestions here. Thanks!

[sadie_sabot]

Originally Posted by luv my 2 sweeties

My dd's preschool teacher shared with us (all the parents) how they handle this situation at school. I really like the approach because it avoids a forced apology, yet encourages the child to face his or her actions. It's similar to mamaduck's "checking in". When one child hurts another (either physically or hurt feelings), they attend to the hurt child (I'll call him HC) first, of course. But as quickly as possible, they attend to the "offender" (OC), and with a serious but gentle tone of voice and facial expression, they tell the OC to look at the HC. "Look at Matt -- he's crying. Look at him. When you pushed him, that hurt him and now he's crying". These are 3 and 4 year olds, so often the OC wasn't even aware of how his or her actions affected the other child until they are made to take notice. The idea is to help develop the child's conscience so that they *want* to apologize and make things right. Often they offer the HC a hug or a token peace offering right on the spot or later in the day. Even if they don't, the teachers don't demand this. The HC gets comfort from the teachers and often other children who witnessed the incident. In a preschool setting, this is a side benefit -- when the OC is asked to look at the HC, other children sometimes look too, and begin to build empathy and learn from the interactions of others. We've been trying this method at home with our kids. It works better with the 4 y.o. than the 2 y.o., who often could care less that his sister is crying or sad. But forcing him to say "sorry" isn't any better, so we do the "look" method with him anyway. Someday it will begin to have an effect!

ETA: Note that when talking to the OC, the adult sticks to the facts of the situation. There's no "You did a bad thing" or "you shouldn't have". The OC is allowed to think about and draw conclusions about "values" based on the HC's reaction and the seriousness with which the adults respond to the situation.

this is more or less the approach we use, and I really like it. As far as "sorry" goes, I haven't yet tried to get my dd to say it, she's not event wo yet. For now, I apologize ( to her or other people) when it's the appropriate thing, and hope that that modeling will lead to her learning to apologize on her own.

[sparklemom]

Children learn by example. Use "sorry" or "I apologize" yourself appropriately and rest assured you will eventually hear your dc saying it when needed.