Battle of the wills with a 3 1/2 year old....

[Fireflyy]

And I am afraid he is "winning"- regardless of how I respond! No really, I need some help here. My 3 1/2 year old is VERY verbal (he explained to me tonight that you "insert" the strap on his sandles into the plastic loop), and is really testing. This is a relatively new thing for him. It is manifesting around things like eating, getting dressed, washing his hands, etc. These are all things he is perfectly capable of doing himself. He is testing his power by either refusing to do them, or doing them so s-l-o-w-l-y that I am ready to scream (I don't- usually).

He can take TWO HOURS to eat breakfast! Getting dressed can take equally as long, and he has taken to peeing without using his hands, on the theory that if he doesn't touch his penis while he pees he shouldn't have to wash them.... :LOL Everything has become a negotiation. I can stand my ground with him, but don't want to get locked in a cycle of power struggles. IMO, we will both be losers in that scenario. He is perfectly happy to have me do anything and everything for him- from dressing him to feeding him to carrying him.

I have told him that when he sits down to eat he has to stay at the table- if he gets down (which he does repeatedly) I will consider him done and put the food away. (I am very careful not to say I am 'taking' things away, feeling that 'taking' sounds more punitive, and 'putting' more matter-of-fact, but I may be splitting hairs here). I basically refuse to dress him unless he seems really tired or out of sorts, but now he uses that as leverage (Mommy, I'm too tired.... as we are trying to get out the door to the pool!),

Any suggestions on approaches? He is an only child (so far) and is otherwise delightful and amazing....

[Fiddlemom]

Lfetterman,

I can totally relate...you are describing my child as well as your own!!!! The Discipline Book by the Searses has been immensely helpful giving perspective and offering practical ideas about supporting good behavior while leaving everyone intact.

The only thing that is working for me is to be swift and hard-nosed about enforcing limits (playing with food at the table, which turns ugly in about a minute; hurting his brother or other playmates; treating anyone disrespectfully). Some days he blows through limits all day and it's exhausting. When I'm on the phone it's like someone pushed the fast-forward button. The instant one-minute time out in a chair has been helpful (I know some object to this idea as punitive, sorry if I offend).....his aggression toward his brother was getting WAY worse so I let him know if he hurt his brother it was going to be an instant time out. This appears to be working.

If we are getting ready to go somewhere and all else has failed, and he is determined to get his way about a non-negotiable (like hurting his bro, talking disrespectfully, or going potty, which is a big issue) I explain he must be too tired to go, and that he'll have to stay home with a babysitter (he ADORES our babysitter, so it's not exactly punishment, but rather exclusion from the family activity). Sounds terrible in a way, but it does get the point across.....

Being swift and clear and dispassionate about consequences seems to be working. But boy is it a challenge. I can really empathize!

And yes.....Dawdlers R Us.

[mamaduck]

Some of the things you describe sound like normal 3 year old stuff. At least, stuff that my sons went through at that age 3.

One thing that helped me was to stop worrying about who was "winning." It shouldn't be about winning and loosing. It should be about cooperating, getting through your day together, and learning. I could almost guarantee that *he* is not thinking in terms of winning or loosing, and he is not doing these things to get at you or to push your buttons. I know it feels like that sometimes -- but honestly, he's just doing what he feels he needs to do. He really doesn't comprehend the urgency that you feel.

I try to remind myself that "dawdling" isn't meant to drive us crazy. Its their own pace, and it allows them to take their time as they absorb information from the world. Its part of the way they learn.

I would spend some time thinking through which behaviors are most critical to you, and "choose your battles" so to speak. For example, hand washing after potty should be non-negotiable. I would say, "Oops, bud... we *always* wash our hands after we potty because we got near potty germs." And I would gently guide his hands to the sink. FTR, handwashing after potty was something my kids argued about *strenuously* at this age. Then suddenly at some point after they turned 4 it became a non-issue. Some things make it more fun -- foaming soap was a hit with us. Using a wet wash cloth went over better with one of my boys.

My oldest has always taken a long time eat and I've tried to make it a non-issue. I used to feed him finger foods that could be carried around in a bowl or bad, or be easily taken with in the car if we needed to go somewhere. This is not something I feel is worth a battle.

A lot of people seem to disagree with me on the dressing-self issue -- but personally, I've never objected to helping my children get dressed. If they want me to dress them, they come and ask me and if I'm available then I agree to it. It takes 2 minutes, and it makes them happy to have that attention. So what's wrong with helping? And I promise -- they get to an age where they not only insist on doing alone, but they also shut themselves in their room and demand privacy. And honestly -- its a little bit bittersweet when they grow up. So why rush it?

Another compromise might be to take turns. I've done this too. I'll say -- "You put on one thing, then I'll put one thing on you, then you put on one thing, then I'll do one thing...." and they thought this was *great* fun.

Another thing I do when I want them to move more quickly through a neccessary activity is "time them." For fun. I'll say, "Hey, want me to time you and see how fast you can get dressed?" For awhile I even kept a stop-watch around. Then I'll say, "Wow! You beat your record!"

[SilverWillow]

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[Fireflyy]

MamaDuck, thanks for this great perspective.

>I try to remind myself that "dawdling" isn't meant to drive us crazy. Its their own pace, and it allows them to take their time as they absorb information from the world. Its part of the way they learn.

You are right, of course. Unfortunately, even perspective doesn't help me when I need to be somewhere, but it helps to remember what his process is.

[Fireflyy]

I think a lot of this is normal 3 year old stuff, I just need to figure out how to get us both through it! I do try to use humor and games a lot, but sometimes he just wants none of it. I guess it feels to me like he is testing his power. I try to give him a lot of choices- ie: "do you want to get dressed before breakfast, or after you are finished?" However, he will say "after", and then when after rolls around, he proceeds to just mess around endlessly! I absolutely am willing to help him when he needs it, but he really wants to be waited on hand and foot. We really don't spoil him (I don't think), so I don't know where this is coming from. Nothing special I can think of that would be causing him to need more attention, or to feel insecure. He sleeps in our bed almost every night still (starts in his, ends up in ours), but will usually wake up and scream for one of us to 'come get him' rather than getting up and walking the 5 feet across the hall!

Anybody have any thoughts about motivation here? I know he isn't trying to aggravate me (I have a mantra to remind me!), but it seems like he is trying to get some need met that I just can't figure out. If it is just to see how much power he does have, where do you draw the line?

[mamaduck]

Just a guess. I think being 3 is sort of like being 13. You want to be big now, and you are bigger, but your also still small. And in some ways its scary leaving behind your baby years. And in some ways you still want the reassurance of being "babied" and in some ways you want everyone to believe in you and know that you can do it by yourself.

When does he really need help? How you decide that he really needs help? What are his needs? Could it be a psychological need for help, even when he is phsyically capable? I tend to think that a child who asks for help actually needs help, and that his request should be honored. If you feel you are being dictated too much, I do think its fine to say, "In a little while," or "Lets do it together," or "Give it a try first, and I'll help you soon if you have trouble."

[Fireflyy]

mamaduck, I would agree that kids needs should be honored, and validated. I guess what I am getting at is that I don't think his need is actually for me to wash his hands for him. It is something more subtle, but I am not getting it. Something more around feeling taken care of (like you said) or feeling like we are there for him. I am just hoping for some insight. I thought it might help me deal with him more productively if I could get some inkling of what might be going on in there...... Thanks for your wisdom! (And yes, I've got GD- hours and hours and hours worth, but never enough!)

[mamaduck]

Originally Posted by lfetterman

I guess what I am getting at is that I don't think his need is actually for me to wash his hands for him. It is something more subtle, but I am not getting it.

Tee-hee! Well, my little one went through months of insisting that mommy needed to pull his pants up after he went potty. And if I refused, he'd hobble around with his pants around his ankles indefinately. He was quite stubborn about it!

Not always, but quite often when we encountered something like this, it would be enough on my part to offer a compromise. I would say, "I am not going to pull your pants up for you. But I will sit with you and keep you company while you do it." I would try the same with hand washing. "I will stay in the bathroom and keep you company while you wash your hands."

[tinaq]

Just wanted to say that you all are describing my ds, to a "t." Very helpful information here. Thanks. Our issues involve nonnegotiables, too, like treating our cats kindly (he likes to chase them around & will poke at one- particularly if we're not looking). Right now, we're also dealing w/ him swatting at me, kicking & screaming. Lots of fun

I like the reminder that their in a stage very reminiscent of 13. Also, the "taking it easy" points w/ helping them get dressed & portable finger foods. Muchas gracias!

[Leatherette]

Oh man,

I think we are just exiting this stage and entering the much-hailed "blissful fours". 3 and a half was so hard! I agree with the advice given. I would help him get dressed, feed him things that were hard for him, like yogurt, whatever. He now wants "privacy" when he poops, and he used to want me to sit there and watch him. Some days he totally dresses himself, other days he sits and kicks and giggles regressively, and wants me to do it all. I just flow with it.

L.

[mamalisa]

Originally Posted by lfetterman

Getting dressed can take equally as long, and he has taken to peeing without using his hands, on the theory that if he doesn't touch his penis while he pees he shouldn't have to wash them....

Oh my gosh, he's been talking to my ds!! Little stinkers! He will use his shirt to lift the potty lid and come out so proud at his innovation! Things that seem to work for us (some days )
-lots of warning time, when getting ready to leave I tell him way before he needs to get ready and we co-ordinate our getting ready. For example, by the time I'm done drying my hair, he needs to be dressed. By the time I'm dressed he needs to get his shoes on. It sort of turns into a race.

-1, 2, GOOOOOO! If I turn anything into a "race" he will do anything I ask. Seriously, my dh is the best at it though, I always forget to "race" or "time" him.

-options. Either or. Only two choices, pick one or I pick. This has made getting dressed so much easier.

-giving in, realizing when I am just trying to have him do stuff my way. I also try to remember that he is in such a rough spot. Not a baby, but not a big boy. He can do so much on his own, but then I think he gets overwhelmed with the responsibility.

You've gotten some great advice from other mamas! I'm sure 4 will bring something new, but the months surrounding 3 1/2 were sometimes hellish. Now he's beating down the door of 4 and he's a treat again

[Fiddlemom]

Wow, what a great thread....so much good wisdom & thoughts....one other thing I wanted to add. A few times recently I've just 'pulled the plug' on a power struggle and this can be very liberating. It really felt good; like, Wow, I'm the mom here and I can decide we're just not doing this power struggle thing and then go and do something fun which we all needed anyway. It's not healthy to reward undesirable behavior, but sometimes a trip to the park and getting ice cream on a hot day when everyone's extra irritable can save my sanity.

[paloma]

"After youwash your hands, we are going to make dinner. I will be out here with the . . .PIZZA DOUGH!"

I hate to say that my dd loves a routine. She loves to know what she is doing next.

[SRHS]

3 or 13?

That is such a GREAT analogy!!! I have 2 boys ~8 and 3....the first one had terrible 4's...about the time his brother came along..go figure and the "baby" is having his terrible 3's as we speak. Have been reading "mindful Parenting" by the Kabat-Zinns...wonderful book...really helps me keep my sanity in THOSE moments. I guess the only thing I have to offer is that the Toddler's eating habits are a bit "rude" by society standards, but actually really healthy. It is much more healthy to eat a bit, walk away and then come back and eat some more...which is hard to do in restaurants, at others peoples home, etc...so that just might be one of your family's nonnegotiables...however I do believe it is a developmental/age related thing they will outgrow. And the other little tidbit I have to offer is: How many teenagers do you know who want their mom to wash their hands and pull up their pants for them...I don't know any....so I guess this too will pass...it just may take some time...

And a bit of empathy....I TOTALLY understand your schedule and agenda being at odds wtih the kids!!!! Why don't they understand that if we hurry up and get in the car and get the darned seatbelts fastened we get the boring chore done faster and can go home and play????? I don't know why but logic just doesn't work wiht mine. I have found (ONLY AFTER reading Mindful parenting by Kabat-Zinns ) that I only make myself more frustrated when I fight a child's inherent nature...like to TOUCH everything in a store, want to stand and look at all the lights, etc...Or my new favorite to TALK incessantly and ask every question under the sky and not listen to the answers!!! (yep you guessed it, that would be the almost 8 year old!!!)

So, never fear...new frustrations await you right around the corner!!!

Hugs!! Susan

[Fireflyy]

I LOVE that there are so many wise and wonderful mamas here... thanks so much for all of your thoughts. It does help just to know that others are going through the same stuff (or have in years past). Even though I knew he couldn't be the only one, it still helps to hear that, kwim? I thought of the ideas here when last night he informed me he wasn't taking his clothes off, I should do it. Wasn't putting his jammies on, I should do it. Wasn't washing his hands, I should do it. Didn't want to pee, cause then he would have to wash his hands again. Was 'too tired' to brush his teeth, but wanted to play more before bed. Etc. Etc. Etc. Thanks to all of you for being a touchstone!

And keep the ideas coming if there are more out there!