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To circ. or not to circ. your boy???

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
Okay, just curious how many of you if having boys are planning on having him circumcised (Sp?). Too lazy to look up proper spelling. Sorry! LOL Anyway, my oldest son is 15 and was not circ., my 2yr old was. However, after reading about how it is done, seen pics, it is scary and I can't see the real benefits of having the procedure performed on such a innocent child who will feel the pain. My problem is this....many years ago it seemed it was more accepted to go uncirc. and then a faze where is was more accepted to be circ. I am not saying I will go with "what everyone else is doing" but what if my son meets a girl who has never seen a uncirc. penis. Like me at age 17, I was a felt awkward. I assumed he wasn't circ. but it looked so strange after having a little brother that was circ. and that to me at least was normal looking cuz I had only seen them that way. It does seem more and more people are choosing to go uncirc. And I am considering this with the new baby. Knowing what my son must have went through during the procedure and how raw and painful it looked afterwards makes my heart ache. I hopes this makes sense. My hubby is uncirc. but he leans to be circ. and I feel like if I show him info online about the procedure he will change his mind, but it's my mind need to make up first. Ya know, my word wil stand! LOL Any opinions?
post #2 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelamclamb
Any opinions?
Opinions? Oh, my...yes.

My husband is circ'ed. Any sons of ours will NOT be done. I don't give a rat's @ss about trends. I don't care about what some teenage chick might think. I couldn't care less about what the boys in the locker room might say. I'll arm him with all of the information he needs to set anyone straight. He may, depending on society, have a few minor 'run-ins' during his life about his intactness. That said, who cares? If it were me, I'd rather have a few small inconveniences than a lifetime of lesser feeling, possible sexual problems as a 40 + year old man, etc., etc., etc....not to mention the horrible pain of the initial procedure.

As a side note, many of the things that circumcized men think are normal parts of sexuality, are NOT. For example: DH and I have been together since we started dating when I was 16 and he was 17. We first had intercourse when I was 17. He has always told me that when he has an erection, it aches, because the skin is so tight. We thought it was a normal part of male anatomy. When he is 'ultra-turned-on' it aches more. His circ 'looks perfect' by all standards but most certainly the skin is quite tight when he is hard. Upon deciding to TTC, I read up on circ. I found that this aching pain is unheard of in intact men and is one of the most common problems with men who have been circ'ed. My DH is 'big' down there. His brother and father are both intact and are a fair bit larger even. Another common effect (always?) of circ is shortening of total adult size, both length and circumference, since such a bulk of skin is removed.

If your child decides he wants it done later, so be it.

Since it's not necessary, isn't beneficial and has soooo many drawbacks, I don't believe any parent should make an irreversible major decision for him with such major consequences. It's a tragedy that we make a law against female circ that so rarely occurs in our country, but turn a blind eye to what happens thousands of times per day to our sons....sons who may seem like 'our babies' but will, one day, be their own men who deal with the effects. As parents, we don't deal with it, they do.

I know this post is over all the place in subject matter, but it's hard to pin down my feelings in a relatively short span of words.

I hope I haven't offended you about your decision to circ your second son. I don't mean to do that, in ANY way.

Sincerely,
Jaclyn
post #3 of 32
There is a whole forum dedicated to circumcision on mothering, so you can find tons of info there. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44 In fact, this post will probably be moved there

Basically, it is not my choice to mutilate my son's body. If he wants to get circ'ed at 18, by all means, it is his body. Likewise, I am not circing if I have a daughter, so I will be keeping all of my children's genitals the way nature intended them.

For what its worth, the overall rate of circ in the country is about 50/50. In some parts of the country there is a higher rate, and in others a lower rate. And as you suggested, circ-ing, just b/c other people are doing it, is not the best reason.

And in terms of a g/f seeing an intact penis, and you would have more knowledge than I do having an intact husband, when erect, it is hard to tell. And I would be very amazed if a teenage boy could keep his penis flacid while his g/f is looking at it :LOL In fact, in hs, I dated a guy who was intact. We had lots of sex I had no idea he wasn't circ-ed.

When I was pregnant 3 yrs ago, my hubby and I were on the fence. We thought that circ-ing was wrong, but there must be some medical reason to do it, since everyone was doing it. Reading this article from mothering, http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...cision85.shtml
decided it for us.

Its funny, I know of only one circ-ed boy, and all of my son's friends are intact. We go to the beach and all I see are little intact nudie boys running around. It is so beautiful. I moved to this area after my DS was born, so I had no idea what it was going to be like. But, causing my son pain for no medical reason, was enough for me.

hth
Amy
post #4 of 32
There's no way I would circumcise if we end up with a boy. DH is Norwegian, and virtually all men there are uncircumcised. We are also not religious, and as far as I can tell the only real reasons for circumcision are related to religious practices.

I like AmyD's comment about not circumcising a girl either. If it's unthinkable to me to have my daughter's clitoris removed, it seems equally unthinkable to have my son's foreskin removed, if you know what I mean...

I guess I sound a bit judgemental here--I don't mean to, but since the question relates to my own child I hope you don't take offense at my, er, opinionated answer.

I have one friend who planned not to circumcise, then found out that the foreskin was "too tight" and the dr. insisted on circumcising a few weeks after birth. That has always struck me as suspicious. Aren't babies' genitals often swollen at first?
post #5 of 32
I understand what a sensitive subject this for people, but i think it is imprtant to way out all of the things that you feel about as well as all of the information you have.

For example I have read and understand that there is not a medical benifit to being circ. however my dad was intact and he developed penile skin cancer which his Dr. said could have been related to not being circ. After four years of horriable suffering he died. So, it is confuseing for me.

I also think that if you are going to consider that he may be less satisfied sexually as a reason not to then it is perfectly acceptable to consider wether or no he or his future partners will feel weird about him being intact.

That said I don't think that the decision should be based on sexuality but rather the cruleness of the procedure. I read a wonderful quote (before I knew that we weren't having a boy). I am paraphrasing it but it was essentially- Nothing desentizes society to a horror more then a custom.

I am sorry if this is sort of rambly I just think that even though we wouldn't circ. it is important to consider all factors.
post #6 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses, that's exactly what I needed to hear. Jaclyn
, you didn't offend me, I appreciate your feedback. I regret that my 2yr old was circ. I also look at it like this and it is the biggest weighing factor. If God meant for them to be that way or they would have been borned differently, without the foreskin. Since they are born with it, then it is meant to be. I wish I had more info like this before having my 2yr old circ. The outcome would have been different. I have also read online that circ. men do not get as much pleasure as a circ. men due to the lack of the foreskin, the nerves were cut.

On a side note, having been with a circ. man and an uncirc. man, I feel that a women gets more pleasure as well from an uncirc. man. More friction per-say.

I have also noticed a size difference as well, it truly does seem that uncirc. men are larger in every aspect...whether it's that or genes, who knows....but I think it being uncirc. gives more room to grow... LOL

Okay, uncirc. it will be!!! My hubby wil agree when I explain all this to him and being he is uncirc...I dont think it will take much for him to agree.

Off to sulk in my regret for hacking up my 2yr olds penis.
post #7 of 32
Hi -- we found out recently we're having a boy and this came up with dh and I. I had already decided against circing (for most of the reasons already stated) but dh was unsure -- he was worried about other boys in gym class, and about ds's first sexual experiences. together, we read the chapter on circ. in Natural Family Living, and that did it for him. We are NOT circing. Its medically unnecessary, painful, mutilation. To me, its like cropping the ears of a dog for a purely aesthetic reason.

my m-i-l and mom are both very upset with this decision. we are going to photocopy the chapter for them.

as far as embarassment during sex: i hope that we raise a boy who is responsible enough not to have sex until he is capable of handling the embarassment that it brings (circ. or not, first sex can be embarassing!! sex in general can be embarassing -- isnt that part of the fun? you're all thrilled and curious and excited and vulnerable?). Of course, we may fall short in that, but its our goal, and not circing little ds will force us to be even more open in our views of the beauty of the human body and the joy and responsibility of sex.

btw: one thing that gave my mom pause was when I told her, "I believe that our creator made each of us perfect when we were born" and that I wasn't going to surgically mess with that innate perfection. Maybe think of it that way?

to you as you decide

--rainy
post #8 of 32
I don't have much to add, as everyone else has pretty much summed it up for me. Our two year old was circed due to lack of information, and just not knowing that it was really an option. If this baby is a boy, he WILL NOT be circed. My family has been all over me with the "How could you do it to one and not the other" argument, the hygiene argument, the "What will his first girlfriend think" argument, and I won't have any of it. I feel so badly now that I cut off a part of my first son's body without his consent. I don't know what I will tell him if he asks about it when he gets older. But I do know this - when you know better, you do better, and no more of my children will be mutilated under my watch.
post #9 of 32
I wouldn't think of circ'ing a girl, so why a boy?

FWIW, most people I know these days don't circ, so I don't think 'most' people are doing it anymore...
post #10 of 32
Having never met an uncirced man it does seem odd to me.....but that doesn't change what I have learned about the process and the lack of neccesity for it. For those reasons I have choosen not to cir this baby.

We have a 4 yo DS who is circed - and I never really gave any thought to it. I was handed the form by my mw and just signed - like I said I didn't even realize it was an 'issue' I knew no one who was 'intact' and figured they did it for a reason. After learning the truth I talked to DH about it. He was VERY adamet about it - we would cir future sons. When I became pg with #2 we got into horrible arguments about it - and I was so relieved to find out I was having a girl.

This time around we found out we are having a boy. I was very apprehensive about brining the topic up with DH again because I knew what I would agree to and didn't want to spend the rest of the pgcy arguing about it. Well the day after we found out he is a boy DH came home from work. He said how exicted he was that we were having another little boy. Then he paused and said "You know that concern you have about having a boy...we never really decided on that" (meaning circing) I just held my breath ready for the fight.....and then he proceeded to say "Well, I've decided that I'm ok with doing it your way, we don't have to cir him' I about feel on the floor in shock! I don't know what his thought process was to finally agree - and I don't really care at this point - I was/am just so happy we are on the same page. I actually started crying because I was so happy!

So now we will have one circed son and one intact son and I honestly don't forsee any 'issues' with it at all. And if my son decideds as an adult that he - for whatever reason - would like to be circed then he has that option. Otherwise he has no choice and to me that is not right.
post #11 of 32
"what if my son meets a girl who has never seen a uncirc. penis."

Then again, what if he meets a girl who has never seen a circumcised penis? It's equally likely!

If he meets a girl from Europe, she'll have a terrible shock if he's circumcised.

I can tell you, it's incredibly shocking to see a circumcised penis when you've never seen one before. It makes you wince and want to cry, to be honest. Then anger, that anyone could do that to their innocent son.
post #12 of 32
So glad I found this thread. I started one in the Dads board, and I don't think one Dad answered, although I did get lots of opinionated replies!! None of which were really respectful of what my initial question was.Maybe I a being too overly sensitive, as this is quite a hot topic? Anyway, am glad that I could read some of your replies. Thanks
post #13 of 32
I don't mean to offend anyone, as I strongly believe that most ppl do what they think is best for their children, and would never knowingly hurt them.

That being said, circumcision is more than a little snip. It permenantly changes and removes key parts of your child's sexual organ. I fault unnecessary, routine circumscision (and rightfully so) for much of the sexual dysfunction in the US today.

I could speak volumes on the subject, but I'll spare you, in light of directing anyone who's interested to "the case against circumcision" discussion forum, here on Mothering. (As someone also did, earlier)

For those who are concerned over what might happen, when a girl sees the intact penis, it really isn't a big deal, at least it wasn't to myself, or any of my friends. Simply inform your child, so he can be prepared, if the occasion arises. When I encountered my first uncircumcised penis, it was hardly important. I asked him why it looked different, he told me he was uncircumcised. He was actually quite happy to explain it to me... and that was the end of it.

I've never been of the "activist mindset" over anything in my life, but if I were to start, I'd start here. I did not work so hard to become pregnant with this little person just to mutilate him for superficial reasons. My son will not be circumcized.
post #14 of 32
Our son won't be circ'ed either. I wouldn't even pierce my dd's ears despite pressure from dh's family claiming "it's part of their tradition"
Luckily, this isn't even an issue for us because it's very rare for men in dh's country to be circ'ed.
post #15 of 32
Sounds like there have been some wonderful replies here! My ds1 was unfortunately circed. I remember my dh saying "I don't care," when I asked, and me saying, "well, I guess we will since you are." That was it! My entire research, etc. So sad. When they led us back to where he was after the procedure was done and I saw the board they strapped him to, I started crying. And then I nursed and nursed my poor tramatized baby. Of course it had been way more than 3 hours since he had last nursed because they told us to wait til after the procedure so that he would be hungry & could nurse afterwards (then kept us waiting for almost 2 hours!!). So I starved & mutilated my baby all in one day...

Thank God I found this forum -- I've learned so much, & dh is, of course, completely on board with not circing this baby...
post #16 of 32
I'm having a boy and I'm NOT going to circ. DH is on board now but wasn't at first. My damily is SUPER unsupportive. They think it's cruel to make him different, yada yada all that crap. My sister was the worst and that was sad for me because I respect her so much. I just told her that I hoped that when she becomes a mother that she take the time to read up and not just jump off that bridge because everyone else is doing it... Parents OWE their children well informed decisions.
post #17 of 32
Absolutely not. I thought we had settled this before we conceived--we had read about that poor boy whose penis was amputated due to a circumcision accident and he was raised as a girl but always knew he wasn't but everybody lied to him...and we decided, why risk unnecessary surgery? None of the medical arguments is very strong. (Nannymom, I'm sorry about your dad. But the risk of developing breast cancer if you have breasts is MUCH higher than the risk of developing penile cancer if you have a foreskin, yet nobody suggests amputating breasts as a preventative measure. Appendicitis is also more common than penile cancer, but nobody suggests risking an appendectomy as a preventative.)

Anyway, that was that, I thought, but when I was about 6 weeks pregnant I came home to find MrBecca fuming in front of the computer. He'd decided to research circumcision and had learned that, in his words, "There's a massive conspiracy to mutilate little boys!!!" When he saw the true anatomical facts, he realized that he'd been misled into thinking the foreskin was much smaller and less functional than it is. He was horrified and furious to realize that he's been robbed of a very personal body part without his consent and that he'll never know what it would be like to be a whole man. He was depressed for DAYS.

Now it's not only settled that we're not going to do it, but he's totally ready to defend that decision to anyone who questions it! I'm just afraid that his parents (who are Jewish but very inobservant) will object and MrBecca will rip them to shreds--"HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?!?!"--which is not really fair because most likely they did it because it was just what was done in 1971 America and they didn't have access to the information we do.
post #18 of 32
Great points about the invalid "preventative measure" argument, Envirobecca.

Everyone here has said pretty much everything I'd say, so I'll just add that my answer is not just no, but hell no. I would never mutilate my child that way, especially not just to go along with the crowd.

I keep having hope that our nation will come to its senses and stop this crime against boys, especially when I hear that the circ/intact rate is close to even now... but I just took a poll on pregnancyweekly.com, and 91% said they would be circ'ing. And yesterday at playgroup, I saw 3 circ'ed little boys during diaper changes on the living room floor.

This will probably sound weird, but one reason I would love for this baby to be a boy is so I could leave him intact, with all he was meant to have! Then maybe I can gently educate some people by example.

Envirobecca, I hear you about your DH. My DF was more than willing to take my word for it and leave any son of ours intact. He knows I've done my research. But after spending time on the anti-circ board here, and one day running across the video of a circumcision, I became so outraged that I just had to share my information with him! I wanted him to be as much as of intactivist as I am, and I figured he had to really understand the issue. So I made him look at the still pictures from the video.

My poor DF. He didn't understand until then what had been taken from him. He was really torn up about it, especially knowing that I view this practice as mutilation. It was so bad that he couldn't even bring himself to have sex with me for a week. I feel awful that I brought this hurt to him, but on the other hand I wish everyone knew what he does. YES the truth hurts!!! But it has to be revealed.
post #19 of 32
My son is intact and this baby will be kept intact as well. Why would nature make the penis with a foreskin if it was just supposed to be cut off at birth? Makes no sense. I am shocked, appalled, sickened and horrified that people actually let someone strap their baby down and cut on their tender flesh for no reason.

Sorry, this subject really upsets the bejezus out of me.
post #20 of 32
Just adding my voice to the 'leave it alone' crowd.

Many of you have already said the things I say to someone when discussing this topic.

Both of my sons are whole, the way they were intended to be.

I feel that infant circumcision is cruel, unnecessary and robs these future men of their full sexuality.
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