Dental: Dentist said 4 yo will need braces UPDATE

[shelbean91]

I took dd and ds to the dentist yesterday. Lousy visit, I'll share more later.

Dentist said based on xrays of dds teeth, he can tell there won't be enough room in her mouth for her permanent teeth and she'll need braces. Is there any way he can tell this at this early age?

It would be totally strange if she needed them b/c dh and I never had them, our parents, siblings and aunts and uncles also never had them. None of my cousins have had them. Literally, no one in my family has needed braces.

[shelbean91]

Any ideas?

Another reason I'm suspicious is b/c the dentist is a family operation with his son and daughter. The daughter is also a dentist, the son is an orthodontist on the other side of the office.

The other reason it was a lousy visit is b/c my ds has a severely decayed front tooth and will either need a crown or have it pulled, depending on how much tooth is left after removing the decay. I've been bringing him to the dentist every 6 mos since he was 6 mos old. I noticed this tiny corner of tooth missing over a year ago. They told me it wasn't a cavity, just the way the tooth was. They put a sealant on it every time and said we could file it down later (around now) to prevent decay.

Well, now the dentist said ds must have broken it a bit more (without him or me knowing) and now there is decay up the whole side of the tooth into the gum line. I'm totally frustrated as I've done everything right with him. He loves getting his teeth brushed, I've taken him to the dentist, etc. I'm not blaming the dentist for that, just very frustrated.

[Soogie]

I just had my 2 kids to the dentist for the first time last week. DS is almost 4 and dd is 2 1/2. My daughter has a prominent overbite and I asked the dentist about what future implications this would have on her teeth. And he said that her facial features and bone structure will continue to change over the years and there is no way to predict now whether or not orthodontics are in her future.

so, I would be a bit leary of a dentist who is pushing ortho on a 4 yr old. Always get a second opinion...even in dentistry.

[shelbean91]

thanks for the reply.

I chose this dentist when dd was 2 and needed lots of work on her teeth-5 crowns, 2 fillings, and pulpectomy. He was my 3rd opinion and the one I felt most comfortable with.

At the time, the whole office staff was very friendly and great with kids. Now the hygenist is a real b!tch, I didn't care for the way she spoke to the kids at all. She was almost expecting them to behave like adults and easily go along with what she said, even they don't know her and 1/2 of her face was covered w/the mask.

The more I think about it, the less I think I want to return.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by shelbean91

Dentist said based on xrays of dds teeth, he can tell there won't be enough room in her mouth for her permanent teeth and she'll need braces. Is there any way he can tell this at this early age?

First off, hugs to you mama. This dental stuff is so hard to deal with.
There is a possibility that he would be able to predict this if your dd's dental arch is extremely narrow and high instead of wide and flattened. Dental arches are formed in utero.

Originally Posted by shelbean91

It would be totally strange if she needed them b/c dh and I never had them, our parents, siblings and aunts and uncles also never had them. None of my cousins have had them. Literally, no one in my family has needed braces.

Crooked teeth are not genetic, they are due to nutritional deficiency during pregnancy. Other indicators of prenatal deficiency are poor enamel formation on the baby's teeth (leading to baby tooth decay) and ears that stick out instead of lying flat against the head.

My prenatal diet was sadly insufficient (found this later on), and my baby's teeth came in crooked and started decaying. We were able to stop the decay progression by making radical changes to our diet. Unfortunately, though, I am guessing that she will probably need braces later on in life as her dental arch is pretty high looking.

I would find a new dentist if you are not feeling comfortable with this one. Kids have to go through enough trauma at the dentist, we might as well find the least offensive one!

Good luck!

[mamaley]

do you have links to anything online that backs this up? i'm interested to learn more...if that's true, that's so interesting.

[toraji]

Sure, it's actually in a book called "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A. Price. He was a dentist who traveled around the world for 20 years trying to find the healthiest cultures with no tooth decay and found that the people with the least tooth decay (as well as no crooked teeth, wide dental arches, easy births, etc. etc.) were due to their diets (omnivorous whole foods). As soon as "white man foods" (refined flours, sugars, etc) were introduced, degenerative diseases formed, and the successive generations suffered tooth decay and other signs of deficiency.

Here is a great online review about the book, with pictures:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0203...ppnf/PPNF.HTML

We were able to stop our dd's tooth decay through switching our diet to be omnivorous and increasing our vegetable intake to a large degree, as well as making some other changes to our food preparation (soaking grains and beans to neutralize phytic acid, which blocks mineral absorption) and starting to consume raw grassfed dairy products. You can find more details about traditional-foods types of diets in these books:
Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon
The Garden of Eating Diet by Rachel Albert-Matesz and Don Matesz

Websites:
http://www.westonaprice.org
http://www.thegardenofeatingdiet.com

You can also ask questions in the Traditional Foods (NT) Mamas threads over in the Nutrition and Good Eating forum.

[mamaley]

thanks!

[shelbean91]

Thanks for the info. My dentist (not the ped dentist) said weak enamel could have been a result of dd being born 5 weeks early, but it shouldn't affect her permanent teeth. Her teeth are straight, but ped dentist just said there won't be room in her mouth.

I obviously don't know what to look for in dental arches, but would that be the same as a high palate that could cause problems with nursing? We did have nursing problems in the beginning, but that was due to her being premature, not b/c of palate issues.

I did call another dentist and made an appt for a 2nd opinion for ds. If I like this office, I'll have dd go there for the next appt. The 2nd opinion doc is much closer to the house, as an added bonus.

[mamawanabe]

Here's my take - we are fixing teeth that wouldn't have been fixed in the past. There is a standard of perfect teeth (and now perfect white teeth) that is much higher than in the 60s and 70s and even 80s.

Teeth that would be considered fine in 1984 would today be suggested for braces.

But I'd get a second opinion and find a dentist you trust more.

[Tiacsophno]

I just took my 5.5 yo dd to the pediatric dentist a couple of weeks ago and I asked her out of the blue whether she could tell whether or not orthodontic work would be in dd's future. She told me that at this age it is too early to tell.

[shelbean91]

Thanks- I never thought you could tell something like that from x-rays and every dentist before said you can't tell until the perm teeth come in. One of my sisters sucked her thumb until she was 8 and the dentist told her she would need braces if she didn't stop. She stopped and her severe overbite corrected itself within a year.

Even if she does need braces eventually, to have the dentist tell me now is strange to me. It's like he's going to try to talk me into them, even if she doesn't need it. I'm really disappointed b/c he was the one I found that was great and I've even recommended him to others. I think I'm going to end up cancelling the appt and going with someone else.

[toraji]

Originally Posted by shelbean91

I obviously don't know what to look for in dental arches, but would that be the same as a high palate that could cause problems with nursing? We did have nursing problems in the beginning, but that was due to her being premature, not b/c of palate issues.

A well-formed dental arch is supposed to look like the top of a quonset hut. Malformed dental arches look more like an upside-down U. There are of course varying degrees between these two. I would imagine that a high arch could indeed cause nursing problems.

I do think that it is possible that prematurity could be a factor in weak enamel.

[SomedayMom]

Hey there...

If you aren't comfortable I'd find someone else.

But, yes, we can predict the need for future ortho in some children. It's not 100%, but the predictability is still pretty good. For instance, if there are no spaces between the baby teeth (particularly the front teeth) I WILL warn a parent ahead of time that I predict ortho in the future...those larger permanent teeth will be trying to fit in the same spaces those baby teeth are in...

Good luck!

[shelbean91]

There aren't spaces btw the front teeth currently, but that is b/c her front 4 teeth are crowned.

It's weird. I was perfectly comfortable with this office, but this last visit just rubbed me the wrong way. They seemed very short with the kids, almost belittling ds1 for not cooperating (he's 2) and dd (4) got a little freaked when the hygenist first started-she had been doing fine and instead of reassuring her, she said 'this can take 1 minute or this can take 10- now open your mouth'. She was also talking about 'sugar bugs' on dd's teeth- which would be fine if we referred EVER to sugar bugs. I told her (the hygenist) that we told dd we were coming to the dentist to get rid of germs on her teeth that we couldn't see at home.

Again, the more I think about it, the less likely I will return.

[shelbean91]

Thanks for all the replies.

I got a 2nd opinion for ds today. This opinion is the same thing the 1st dentist has been saying for the past 2 years. That the corner is just that way, there is no decay, it's still hard, to keep an eye on it, keep brushing b/c it's in a spot that could easily become decayed, especially b/c it's a rough edge.

I called the 1st dentist back, cancelled the appt for the work (remove 'decay' and crown or extract) and told them why.

4 reasons (I only gave them the first reason, that's really the most important and the reason I went for a 2nd opinion): the way the hygenist talked to the kids I didn't like

they don't like the parents in the back when doing work-if they talk to my kids that way when I'm there, how will they talk when I'm not

the fact ds' tooth went from nothing to bad enough to be pulled in 6 mos, but the 2nd opinion agrees w/the nothing wrong again

the orthodontic comment for dd, when conveniently the son is an orthodontist on the other side of the office

And the 5th reason: gut feeling says 1st dentist isn't right for us anymore.