How young can they really Child Led Wean? - Page 3

[UrbanPlanter]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

many women encourage late nursing which may therefore not be fully child driven.

you can't make a child nurse if he/she doesn't want to.

believe me, I have tried (like when I'm trying to encourage a nap or bedtime...)

[MsMoMpls]

No- I get that completely- deal with that regularly. But if my behavior can influence my child to wean early, can't other women's behaviors influence their children to continue nursing? It feels like we have to be open to considering our own bias.

[UrbanPlanter]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

No- I get that completely- deal with that regularly. But if my behavior can influence my child to wean early, can't other women's behaviors influence their children to continue nursing? It feels like we have to be open to considering our own bias.

Well, in my case, I never discouraged the breastfeeding, so yes, I would think that would lengthen our nursing relationship. But maybe "nurture" is a better word than "lengthen"...

[water]

Mother_Sunshine says it so well!

Just some points I wanted to emphasize:

Night-weaning is NOT CLW; even though my 3yo is still nursing I night-weaned him at 18 months and therefore would never claim that he is CLW.

Weaning during pregnancy is NOT self-weaning! There is a drop in or a total loss of milk supply, that in and of itself encourages weaning.

People do need to be accountable for the steps they take that encourage their child to wean, including the bottles, offering other types of milk, not recognizing nursing strikes, delaying or denying nursings, not offering etc etc. I'm not sure why people can't take responsibility for doing these things, I certainly have, and I KNOW they were not the best choices to make if I wanted my son to CLW.

I am lucky in that I have a 3yo who continues to nurse through my pregnancy, total absence of milk, halftime daycare, nightweaning, drinking of soymilk etc etc, but I have NO illusions that what I am doing is CLW or that I have not basically done a whole lot of things that might have caused him to wean on my schedule.

CLW is an admirable thing that more people should strive for (including me) but it does take acknowledging our mistakes in order to perhaps do it differently next time. Or don't do it different, but don't claim self-weaning or CLW.

[clothcrazymom]

Water ~ thanks so much for your post - that clears up several things that I've been unclear about when reading different threads. What you wrote makes sense to me.

I'm really not clear about what CRW is (other than my own thoughts) given that I hadn't ever heard the terminology before.

A question for anyone - what is "ecological" bfing? All these terms You would think after parenting for 16+ years I would know what all these terms are. However, there seems to be more and more categories popping up all the time.

One thing I will say in regards to this type of discussion on Mothering.... My understanding is that this forum is Extended Breastfeeding...(which I know there has been some debate over what "extended" really is age wise and maybe what that is needs to be clearly stated on this board) and not just Child Led Weaning. It was also my understanding that Mothering is about supporting mothers in breastfeeding and it's not necessarily for a specific time. Please show me where I may be wrong on this.

BTW - I've said this before...those of us who are nursing babies that are 1-2 years (or to 2.5 or 3 - whatever age depending on which conversation is being had) are probably the majority here yet we sortof fall through the "cracks". Some don't think we are at the point of "extended breastfeeding" yet, but then we aren't necessarily in the "Getting Started and Overcoming Difficulties" area either. And while some on here may think of those who nursing between the ages of 1-2 as being more "mainstream"...I can tell you that there sure aren't many "mainstream" areas on the web that are supportive of mom's nursing past a year.

Please know that in starting this thread and posing the question....I was in no way trying to "support" or justify early weaning. I was trying to get some clarification on CLW and if there is some sort of minimum age established that this occurs.

[mother_sunshine]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

That may be your agenda but is it MOTHERING's?

Mothering's Statement of Purpose...
http://www.mothering.com/mdc/web_sta...ofpurpose.html

Mothering celebrates the experience of parenthood as worthy of one's best efforts and fosters awareness of the immense importance and value of family life in the development of the full human potential of parents and children. At Mothering we recognize parents as experts and seek to provide truly helpful information upon which parents can make informed choices. Mothering is both a fierce advocate of the needs and rights of the child and a gentle supporter of the parents, and we encourage decision-making that considers the needs of all family members. We explore the reality of human relationships in the family setting, recognizing that raising the heirs of our civilization well is the prerequisite for a healthy society.
Mothering advocates natural family living, including the ancient way of being with babies and children that is known today as attachment parenting. This way is reliant on the inherent integrity of children and the inviolate intuition of parents. The family is the dominion of parents and children and authoritative knowledge rests with them. This website is a place to safely explore all the aspects involved in such a parenting philosophy.

The MotheringDotCommune discussion boards serve an online community of parents considering, learning and practicing attachment parenting and natural family living. Our discussions on the boards are about the real world of mothering and are first and foremost, for support and information.
Mothering invites you to read and participate in the discussions on the MotheringDotCommune forums. In doing so we ask that you agree to respect and uphold the integrity of this community.

[Firemom]

I think if we all lived in a perfect world where everyone breastfeeds and babies and children see others nursing, then babies and children would nurse for much longer periods of time.

With that. I am on the 2 extremes. I believe Mother Sunshine on this board has nursed a child the longest, and I am close behind her with my dd self weaning a few months shy of 6 years old.

However my son (firstborn) showed signs of weaning around 9 months and did wean at 10 1/2 months. I too felt horrible about this.

With both of my children I worked as a firefighter. I work 2 days per week at 24 hours a pop. I didn't know anyone who worked hours like these and nursed a baby.

Both babies had bottle of breastmilk when I worked. My early weaner started to prefer the bottle my late weaner never showed much interest in the bottle and was drinking out of a cup around 6 months and was not using a bottle at all at one year.

All babies are different and I tried everything to continue nursing my son, but the bottle won. I beat myself up about this a lot, but realized after having my dd how totally different they were and felt better about it.

I do wish he would have nursed for at least a year, but alas we were only a month and 1/2 short of it and he did have my freezer stash until he was a little over 11 months.

[mother_sunshine]

clothcrazymom, I wasn't directing my post (not the last one, but the one before that) at you nor anyone else in particular. I was just finding that this thread was heading in a more defensive way of supporting early weaning and I felt the need to speak up.

You are right, this forum is not solely for mothers who are childled weaning. I don't think anyone here has said or even insinuated that. The topic of discussion in this particular thread is CLW at an early age, however, and that is what we have focused on.

I personally have never thought of those nursing between the ages of 1-2 as being more "mainstream". If they are planning to wean by 2, and they see beyond 2 as strange and unnecessary, then yes I do see them as more mainstream. And if they have a hard time accepting those of us who decide to let our children nurse til whatever age, then no I don't see this as the forum for them because it is not only going against Mothering's intent, it is excluding those who need us most.

In an increasingly diverse forum it is difficult to find common understanding. But we do need to keep our focus on what Mothering is here for. Mothers who nurse beyond 2 should feel welcomed, supported, and encouraged to share so others can learn.

[Heavenly]

I believe it is the very, very rare child who will truly self-wean before 2. I have a different view of child led weaning than most people I get. I don't believe in night-weaning, or putting the child off unless absolutely necessary, limiting nursing, limiting nursing in public or any other form of limiting nursing. I believe a child who is TRULY allowed to self-wean will be allowed to nurse whenever and whereever they want. People say well what about when its not convenient? Well thousands of years ago women who have had their young child with them at all times and it would not have been an inconvenience to nurse on demand. It would just be a normal part of life. Biologically that is what children are programmed to expect IMO. It is only in our self-centered society where the TRUE best interests of the child are usually not paramount that we push so much to get our children off the breast and get on with our lives. My daughter is almost 22 months old and still nursings on demand 24/7. I will nurse her anywhere and everywhere, I dont' care where I am. And she does ask in some odd places (like yesterday nursing sitting on the curb in a parking lot) but oh well. She still nurses at least 15 times a day but usually MUCH more. I don't pretend to know everything but I think child-led weaning is truly child-led with no interference from the mother. If you dont' believe that then why insist on saying your are practicing child led weaning? Why not just say you and working with your child to gently and respectfully wean them? Don't say well I'm child led weaning but they are nightweaned and I definately won't nurse past 3. Well that isn't child led is it?

[mother_sunshine]

Cindy, I saw your post after I had already posted. Didn't want you to think that I was directing at you.

[Firemom]

No, didn't think that at all

[clothcrazymom]

clothcrazymom, I wasn't directing my post (not the last one, but the one before that) at you nor anyone else in particular. I was just finding that this thread was heading in a more defensive way of supporting early weaning and I felt the need to speak up>>

Thanks Mother Sunshine for clearing that up for me

<<I personally have never thought of those nursing between the ages of 1-2 as being more "mainstream". If they are planning to wean by 2, and they see beyond 2 as strange and unnecessary, then yes I do see them as more mainstream. And if they have a hard time accepting those of us who decide to let our children nurse til whatever age, then no I don't see this as the forum for them because it is not only going against Mothering's intent, it is excluding those who need us most.

In an increasingly diverse forum it is difficult to find common understanding. But we do need to keep our focus on what Mothering is here for. Mothers who nurse beyond 2 should feel welcomed, supported, and encouraged to share so others can learn.>>

Absolutely!

I think sometimes it gets confusing too because of the way that the Breastfeeding forums are divided up on Mothering.

Heavenly ~ What you said definitely makes sense. I remember reading something that one of the moms who's child weaned at around 7 posted about not understanding how someone can consider themselves to CLW when they haven't been there yet. I found it very interesting because she was talking about her own experiences and how she thought it would be a certain way and it wasn't.

I think I'll stick with the terminology that my children were gently weaned and hopefully that doesn't add to any confusion. They didn't ever have bottles, pacifiers, early solids, milk, or night wean (actually I'm the one that asked about that whole thing one time because my children gave up nursing at night last) But I did do the don't offer don't refuse towards the end and sometimes distracted.

Ok I'm still wondering about "ecological" bfing??

[jkpmomtoboys]

Originally Posted by mother_sunshine

...I was just finding that this thread was heading in a more defensive way of supporting early weaning and I felt the need to speak up.

I guess I don't see this at all. I saw this as a healthy discussion about people's personal experiences regarding weaning. If we can't discuss our personal experiences, what can we discuss?

And, yeah, ok, I guess I am a _little_ defensive; we're on day 8 of this CL weaning and I think I'll give it another 2 weeks before I officially call it a wean and not a nursing strike... :

[TiredX2]

Where other mothers did subtle things to ENcourage weaning, maybe I have done subtle things to DIScourage it, and to encourage my son to nurse a long time.

Thank you for explaining what I have desperately wanted to express!!!

I also wanted to mention, because apparently I have to, that I completely support each mothers ability to choose how long to nurse their own child. I will even give weaning tips & pointers if that is what the mom wants. But this thread was not about supporting each woman's choice, it was about a personal opinion of CLW.

[TiredX2]

A question for anyone - what is "ecological" bfing?

No pacifiers, no foods, no suppliments (including water). Sleep w/mom during night. Bfeed on demand.

Anyone else, other tennants...?

[TiredX2]

T

My daughter is almost 22 months old and still nursings on demand 24/7. I will nurse her anywhere and everywhere, I dont' care where I am. And she does ask in some odd places (like yesterday nursing sitting on the curb in a parking lot) but oh well. She still nurses at least 15 times a day but usually MUCH more.

This just made something to occur to me: I only count "real" nursing sessions when I say how often DS nurses. Like when he lays down and drains at least one side, probably switching back and forth at least twice (right, left, right, left). Gosh, it would be exausting to try and *count* how often he gets a "nip." LOL

Recently he has become convinced that if I *wanted* to I could nurse him while he is in his carseat (back seat) and I am driving DS is very persuasive with his requests to just shove "it" back there.

[clothcrazymom]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

No pacifiers, no foods, no suppliments (including water). Sleep w/mom during night. Bfeed on demand.

Anyone else, other tennants...?

Is this for a certain period of time? Thanks for indulging me in my OT q's

That's interesting comments about the number of times the child nurses too. I know I get asked all the time how often my baby nurses and I have absolutely NO idea. I've always had a hard time with reading the stuff about how children will drop a nursing session (or one should drop a nursing session when weaning) because it's not like my children have ever had regularly timed nursing sessions. The only times I can pretty much count on would be to fall asleep (but this changes daily as to what times this would be or how many naps, etc) and usually upon waking in the morning.

[TiredX2]

I think ecological bfeeding is generally only refered to with infants. I am not sure I have ever heard a person refer to themselves as biolgical/ecological bfeeding *after* the introduction of solids (so 6-12 months). I am DEFINATELY no expert, though!

I've always had a hard time with reading the stuff about how children will drop a nursing session (or one should drop a nursing session when weaning) because it's not like my children have ever had regularly timed nursing sessions. The only times I can pretty much count on would be to fall asleep (but this changes daily as to what times this would be or how many naps, etc) and usually upon waking in the morning.

The entire idea of "dropping a nursing session" is so foreign to me, I hadn't thought of it for almost 5 years--- when I realized my reality and textbook advice were just not lining up.

[resimom]

Originally Posted by water

Weaning during pregnancy is NOT self-weaning! There is a drop in or a total loss of milk supply, that in and of itself encourages weaning.

i am trying to word this carefully so i don't seem to be argumentative. i'm really curious about your statement about pregnancy.

if a child has been nursed on request from birth and eventually drops down so that mom's body is able to sustain another pregnancy could that not be seen as a natural progression. from my pov it seems that as long as the child still has access to the breasts this could accurately be considered a step in clw.

as a mom of three nurslings i am curious to hear some thoughts on this.

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by clothcrazymom

I read threads about night weaning and how some still feel that they are practicing CLW if they night wean

I'm one of those. I'll be happy to discuss it with you, if you like - just generally prefer not to get caught up in another "Do I fit someone else's criteria for CLW?" thread. (Says I as I happily nurse my almost-4-year-old for the umpteen millionth time today).