The Big LDS Secret

[indiegirl]

Please, I am not LDS nor am I a Christian. I have an honest question and if it is out of line, then feel free to tell me!

I've had some LDS friends and they seem like normal, everyday folks. They are really nice, giving (although not without strings attached--if they help you out of a bind, they will ALWAYS expect you to go to church with them or come over to hear a home-sermon) and thoughtful people.

My family is not LDS and my current friends are not either. I hear about this prevasive "weirdness" about the Mormon faith--my family is REALLY hostile about mormons. I am just wondering what all the fuss is about. Is there some big secret that is completely apart from Christianity? Is there somethign to hide about the faith that you can only know when you are LDS? (Of course, you may not be able to say if this is true!)

I am just wondering where the hostility and prejudice about the LDS faith comes from.

The LDS folks I know seem to act pretty darn nice--and are just as zealous about their faith as anyone else. Except the Mormons I know are even MORE dedicated to family and general goodwill than the Christians I know.

Thanks in advance.

[NewMa]

My guess is that it probably stems from the misconception that all Mormons are polygamists. Just a guess.

edited to add: BEAUTIFUL pictures, Jesse!!! Wow! Seeing little Violet's birth and the way she looks into your eyes in "First Meeting" brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for sharing those with us!

[USAmma]

We live in a big LDS area of the country and I admire the family values of these people a LOT. In fact we have family home evening just like they do. It's a great idea! I also admire the the way they all take care of each other in hard times. There's a farm nearby where LDS people who have lost their jobs or whatever can work at the farm and the church will in turn pay their bills and feed them until they get back on their feet. It really makes their 10% tithing come back to them.

I sometimes get put off when I try to make friends with people whom I later find out are LDS. If I go to a gathering where there are 2-3 LDS people they seem to always stick together and not socialize much with the rest of the group. Maybe it's just natural because they have something in common, or maybe it's just my limited experience and not something I should base an opinion on.

The negative impressions I've gotten about LDS is from people who are strongly religious and not LDS themselves. Maybe it's that whole "we are the one true path and they aren't" thing that I see with a lot of Christian groups (not all-- I don't want to generalize too much).

[Bekka]

Indiegirl:

I'm LDS--hopefully some of the other LDS moms will post in response as well.

It is always interesting to me why people think of me as "weird" when I feel completely normal.

As far as a big thing that makes us different: it's not a secret at all. At least, this is the thing that to me makes us completely different from all the other Christian churches (as denominations). We believe in a complete apostasy or falling away from Christ, that happened sometime after all Christ's apostles and Paul, etc., were killed or died. After that we believe that the authority to act in the name of Christ was removed from the earth.

Fastforward to 1820. We believe that Joseph Smith was told that all the churches (Christian) were wrong, and had become a tiny bit of God's truth bound up with lots of ideas of men. As Joseph Smith grew up (he was a teenager when he spoke to God), he matured spiritually and under divine tutelage--spoke with angels, etc. He was led by an angel to the gold plates and from them translated the Book of Mormon, which was a book of scripture from the people who lived in the Americas. Eventually, through Joseph Smith the Lord revealed His will to re-establish His church on the earth, and we believe that He gave all those truths to Joseph Smith. We believe that Joseph Smith received the priesthood and authority to administer in all the ordinances. We believe in the Book of Mormon and Bible as scripture, as well as other, latter-day revelations given to Joseph Smith and other prophets that followed him.

So, we get a lot of flak for a variety of reasons, which may include:

-our belief in a revealed church that has no claim on any of the Christian churches that have come down through history.

-our views of God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost as separate, distinct beings, being one in purpose

-our claim to have the authority of Jesus Christ to administer saving ordinances

-later in Church history, when polygamy (specifically polygyny) was instituted for a period of time (by revelation from God), that was and is a really hard thing for people to understand/accept. It has been out of effect for over 100 years now, but there are still some groups that are not recognized as "mainstream" or orthodox Mormons who still claim that it's God's will.

-we believe that saving ordinances are performed in temples, and those services are performed in utmost sacredness, so they aren't discussed outside the temple. In fact, they aren't discussed at our church services, except in the most broad of terms. So sometimes people think that "secret things" happen in the Temple.

-our Word of Wisdom, which is a health code which includes substances that we do not partake of, as well as reminding us of the healthy things we _should_ partake of (a lot of Mormons are still working on this--at least, I am!). But because we don't drink or smoke or other things, people have a hard time with that.

I have had many Christian non-LDS friends, and had many many discussions. Because there are things we believe about Jesus that don't match what almost _all_ other Christian churches believe about Jesus, they have heard that Mormons aren't really Christian. I have trouble with this. We accept the same Christ who died for our sins, and atoned for our hurts and sins, and we accept His Grace to allow us to be saved at the last day.
One other thing that bothers people is that we are a missionary church. We believe that this is such good news and we are called and want to share it with everybody.

Ideally this should be in an atmosphere of acceptance and open exchange, and in the best situations, it is, but in our exuberance, remembering that some of us are human, we come off as "high and mighty" about our beliefs. When you address something so close to someone's heart, it can be hard for it to not be something they want to talk about a lot. But we also "claim the privilege to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men [and women] the same privilege; let them worship how, where or what they may." This is our ideal. We just sometimes have trouble balancing our calling to share our gospel with this Article of Faith.
I don't know if I answered your question about a big secret. I tried to address several things that I've heard/experienced as things that make us different that might bother people.

[indiegirl]

Bekka and others--

Thanks for the insight! I guess the LDS faith is no more or less "crazy" from other religions! I don't really understand how my family could be so hostile.

They're weird, what's new.

[EFmom]

I am not trying to upset the LDS posters here--just trying to explain why some are uncomfortable with them. I had a family member join, and did a bit of researching the church.

The LDS church, like some others, is very much into missionary work, and obviously offends some people in that regard. In addition, they have a few philosophies that can make people feel that they are less than up front about their religion. People who are investigating the church are pressured to be baptized into it as quickly as possible without being told all the facts, as the church leadership believes that newcomers should have "milk before meat." Once people convert, they often are in for some serious surprises, some of which have to do with the temple rituals Bekka mentions, and some with other activites and expectations.

They also encourage members and investigators to only read "faith promoting" materials from church approved sources, rather than to study issues from a variety of sources and perspectives. Some who have joined feel that they did not get a true picture of the church and have an honest opportunity to evaluate the truth of Joseph Smith's claims and the activities of the early church, some of which are not exactly as the faith promoting literature would have it.

To see what people who have left the LDS church have found objectionable about membership in it, see the bulletin boards and the stories sections at http://www.exmormon.org/

[Laurel]

I can't really think of anything from a doctrinal standpoint to add to what Bekka said. I think she pretty much hit on the reasons that we as LDS stand apart.

I too don't understand the hatred and fear that is conjured up in people's minds against our religion. It has been there since our church was organized in the early 1800's. LDS people have always faced misunderstanding and even persecution. In the 19th century, this included our people being driven from their homes by mobs and sometimes killed, among other things. I think some of the perception that LDS people tend to stick together and are wary of outsiders may stem from this history. My feeling is that if you don't like something and don't choose to believe it, that's fine, that's your choice--but I don't understand the need to viciously attack it. I am lucky in that I can't remember ever being personally attacked about my religion, although I have overheard conversations and seen books filled with misconceptions and even outright untruths.

We are different, there's no doubt about it. I am comfortable being different. I like being LDS. To me our doctrines are beautiful--and of course, they seem completely normal. If they didn't, I suppose I wouldn't be LDS.

[khrisday]

I have a new friend who is LDS, and although we haven't spoken much about our religious faith (I am Pagan), I have learned a few things that I did not know about the Mormon church. Like- the have special temples where people can get married for eternity (rather than just until death). I also have heard things about sacred garments, and ceremonies that save folks that have already passed- if anyone of Mormon faith can clarify this more I'd appreciate this.

[Laurel]

Just one more comment, after reading EFMoms post. Of course there are people who have become disillusioned with the LDS faith. The same can be said for every religion on the earth. Every religion has those who agree with it and those who don't, has it's stalwarts and it's detractors. I think there are so many factors involved in finding the religion (or lack of it) that is right for each of us individually. So I am not bothered that there are people who have looked into the LDS religion and disagree with it. We all have that right to choose for ourselves what we will believe.

I do think it's important to understand that when you read another person's perceptions of *anything*, whether they agree or disagree with it, you are getting a biased view. You are getting a biased view when you listen to me express my feelings and beliefs. You are getting my perception based on my experience of growing up LDS, studying my own religion, and living it every day. The same goes for someone with a negative perception. If you go seek information only from people who have had negative experiences with the LDS Church, you're going to get a lot of negativity, when in fact, there are numerous intelligent, educated, "normal" people who are very happy being LDS and find that their faith brings joy and abundance to their lives. If you are interested in going to the source to learn what we believe, visit www.mormon.org or even www.lds.org. There is nothing wrong with learning from outside sources, as long as they are balanced and fair. You wouldn't go to Gary Ezzo's website to learn about AP--you'd come here.

I think there is nothing wrong with studying all sides of an issue. I have heard other comments about our not being encouraged to study things out, to research things, and to ask questions, and to be honest, this assertion is so different than what I've experienced. I've never felt like there was a question I couldn't ask. I've never felt bound in what I could search or study. I'm a voracious reader, I consider myself to be somewhat of a deep thinker, I love to philosophize and ponder on meaningful things. I've never felt held back in my religion from any of that.

[youngnhappymamma]

EFmom, I don't know specifically what things you are talking about "suprises", but I know that we don't hold back information from converts, etc.....anyone is free to ask any questions at any time and at any time find out things for themselves. I have been a member my whole life and I am learning more and more about the gospel every day and every week and every year and will probably forever! And sometimes I haven't been ready to understand certain concepts, but do later. Also, anyone who wants may come to our services, with no strings attatched (ie no missionaries involeved if that is what you want) to just learn and see for themselves what the LDS church is like. In an area that we used to live there was this great young family (the mom was a doula and message therapist...very cool!) who wanted to attend a congregation and decided they liked ours the best so they came every week, not wanting to convert, but wanting to go to church and partake of the Spirit and worship God. They were a wonderful, wonderful addition to our congregation, wether they will ever become baptised or not!
I think just as when anyone converts to any religion there are things the new convert didn't know and major adjustments to be made. Living a new religion and getting used to and learning all take a lot of energy and change. And it is sort of a different culture. I think maybe one reason why when someone is investigating the church they are encouraged (encouraged...in no way coerced or forced) to be baptised as soon as they want/can, etc. because there is sooooooo much anti-mormon stuff out there (misconceptions and out and out lies, etc)....it's best to have someone be baptised and start going to church and see what it's really like for themselves and have the help of the Spirit to guide and suport them and learn all they can for themselves (I think another reason why they are encouraged to read church doctorine type books that are actually approved by the church...there are soooooooo many anti-LDS books filled with falsehoods, etc) and start getting involved in the church (have a calling, get to know people, etc). And yes, a lot of converts become inactive or don't want to be LDS anymore, that's fine. It's their choice. At least they were offered the message. That was all sort of a jumble of thought, but hopefully it is desipherable (no idea how to spell that!).
And as far as why LDS people at a gathering might stick together....probably because of the commonality (when I am somewhere and see another mom with a baby in a sling I am drawn to want to talk to her, or see another mom bf, etc....) and just gives the people an instant bond and common ground. Plus, there may be situations where they felt safer maybe talking with other LDS people because there is this broad misconception that we are weird, etc....(weird in a bad way...I like to think I am weird in a good way! ) And ya know for me, it's so neat to be with people that I already know their values, their basic beliefs and to know that they have the same eternal perspective that I do. (that we are all children of a loving Heavenly Father, etc). It's just a neat bond. Just like it's a neat bond we all share here because of our common beliefs about child rearing.

I know this is long, but edited to add that one of the things I LOVE about the LDS church is that it is a congregation led church (our church leaders are non-paid members of the congregation...we teach and help each other, rather than having a minister who preaches every sunday and is the last word on doctrine, etc) and encourages and teaches personal revelation...we can learn anything and find answers for ourselves through study and prayer. I love that.

[Stacymom]

I think that lack of understanding of an issue (or religion, belief system etc) in some cases creates suspiscion or even fear. I think that the more people take time to understand the beliefs of others, the more likely it is that barriers will be broken down and misconceptions corrected. There are a lot of misconceptions about the LDS church that are circulating, just as there are misconceptions about many religions or belief systems. But as Laurel said, the more that you seek to learn about different sides of the same issue, the more accurate representation you will get of what the issue (or religion) is truly about. I think that sometimes, people are too willing to accept things that they hear secondhand as fact, rather than putting effort into deciding for themselve. I see this a lot with more "mainstream" parenting- they let their kids CIO and feed them formula becuase they were told by someone else that that was what they should do, rather than taking the time to listen, learn, follow their instincts, and maybe risk a little bit in the process.

Now, all that being said, I am also a member of the LDS church, and am completly devoted to it. Please, bear in mind, like Bekka said, that the church is filled with mistake-prone human beings that may not always act in a purely "Christian" way. I think that this is true in all religions.

Someone asked about temples and temple work- our temples are buildings that are becoming more and more visible across the world, and inspire a lot of curiosity. They are buildings that only members of the church who are living certain worthiness standards may enter. We participate in sacred ordinances for ourselves, and also for those that have passed on. Like someone mentioned, we believe that marriages that happen inside the temples will endure for eternity- not just until we die. The LDS church also has a large focus on family history and geneology in our church- there are many who die without the opportunity to have these ordinances performed for them, and we very much want our relatives and friends who have passed on to have the opportunity to receive these ordinances vicariously. There are scriptures in First Corinthians (I think, and if someone has a reference, please share) that talks about baptisms for the dead. This is also something that is performed in the temples. Many temples that are being built now have Visitor's centers, and open houses that are held beofre a temple is dedicated. This is a really good way to learn more and be able to see the buildings and be on the grounds.

Worthy members who have participated int he temple also wear the temple garment. It is sacred clothing that we wear day and night, and serves to remind us of the promises we have made in the temple. It is an outward reminder of an inward convenant. It also serves as a modenty guideline of sorts, because we are supposed to always keep our temple garments covered.

Thanks for being willing to discuss this so openly!

[Jane]

I think there are some churches that promote a very anti-LDS stance. They preach their view from the pulpit sometimes. I think that leads to a very "anti" viewpoint to hear that something is bad from your preacher, during services, for your own good.

[AdinaL]

My aunt, her 5 kids and her hubby are Mormon. They are pretty normal folks all in all. No drinking, so smoking (though I have seen them break that), no caffeine, which while odd to a lot of us - isn't that big a deal.
I think that the things that I have heard that give me a bad view of them is the missionary work - all of my cousins (except the girl) have been on their missions. It seems a little heavy handed to me - but to each their own.
The other thing that I have heard issues about is not the people who are mainstream precticing mormons, but the slightly freaky backwoods ones. The last story I had read was extremely sad, about a man who had several wives, one of which was 16 and who was extremely abusive. But like all religions it has people who are a little off center....and take some of the stuff way too far.
I think that like all religions the people who practice in the spirit of the religion are good people - but the people who practice the letter of the religion (usually interpreted for their own benefit) are the ones we usually hear about.
My aunt and her kids are great people (though the 18 yo boy who just had a kid before finishing high school is not high on my happy list). I think that the general populace does not take the time to educate themselves on anything outside of their own sphere of reference (not referring to anyone here - otherwise you wouldn't be here!!!LOL) and tend to view all things different as bad.
Anyway - rambling - my two cents worth.:

[youngnhappymamma]

I just want to note that any member of the LDS church who chooses to practice polygamy is ex-communicated....that is something that is "against" our religion.

[AdinaL]

Really - they are? I didn't know that polygamists were ex-communicated. Interesting - which puts those who say that they are LDS and are polygamists are moving into a cult sort of area....interesting.

[EFmom]

I tried to word my concerns about the LDS church very carefully so as to not offend any LDS mamas. I won't go into all the things that I find deeply disturbing about it, because even though information about these things is freely available (especially in these days of Internet connections), I know that discussing them upsets many LDS folks.

I also agree that if I were interested in taking the Mormon discussions, I would naturally turn to some LDS sources. But given the high demands of this organization, the activities and claims of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other founders, the historical polygamist and racial teachings, the treatment of women, not to mention the rather extraordinary theology, I would also seek out information that has not been sanitized by the current church leaders. There are many excellent and thoroughly researched scholarly publications that cover these topics, besides the web site I mentioned.

Many religions require that potential converts spend a certain period of time studying ALL the requirements, the history and the theology of the faith before they are allowed to join. Questioning is actively encouraged. In contrast, the typical LDS missionary starts to pressure investigators to commit to LDS baptism after a few cursory discussions, and temple oaths aren't revealed until well after the baptism.

Also, while many LDS families are tightly knit, and very happy, obviously it is not for everyone. Some folks find the high financial and time commitments, just to mention a few things, detrimental to family life. Researching it thoroughly will help an investigator avoid unpleasant surprises that can rip families apart.

[KatherineinCA]

EF Mom:

I had to laugh when I read your comment that you know some things that members of the church don't--because that could definitely be true! I am LDS, born and raised, and when I took "Personal Writings of Mormon Women" at BYU, there were a few surprises. I had not known that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, but we read the journal entry of one of his wives in that class. I don't remember now what other subjects came up, but I remember that class was a great experience for me. I came away feeling my faith was actually stronger, because I had to examine some difficult things, and really decide how I felt about them. But I do chuckle every once in a while when I hear people at church denying things that I read in historical documents in that class at BYU!

[merpk]

With the caveat that my only "knowledge" of LDS theology comes from a completely skewed movie I saw a long time ago (from the "midnight movie" section of the video store ... )

Anyway, just a question, but perhaps the reputation for weirdness and the anti-LDS attitudes come from the missionizing and converting itself. After all, don't LDS Christians try to convert other Christians? Can't imagine other Christians would be too pleased. After all, Jewish folks get testy when we're proselytized to ...

And one of those odd things that the LDS church did was posthumously convert Holocaust victims, among other dead Jews.
That was offensive. And it was a sort of spiritual grave-robbing that was really weird, if you ask me. But they have since stopped the practice, under extreme pressure from, well, really angry Jews.

I'm just not sure I understand where they came off doing that in the first place, how that fits into any theological scheme. And it was weird. Very.

- Amy

[indiegirl]

Originally posted by amyrpk
And one of those odd things that the LDS church did was posthumously convert Holocaust victims, among other dead Jews.
That was offensive. And it was a sort of spiritual grave-robbing that was really weird, if you ask me. But they have since stopped the practice, under extreme pressure from, well, really angry Jews.

Whoa.

[EFmom]

Katherine,

I'd edited my prior post at about the same time you were posting, and I deleted the paragraph to which you refer by accident when my dd woke up.

What I'd said was that I was amazed at how little some LDS seem to know about the history of the organization, its founders and its theology. For example, I've had Mormons tell me in all sincerity, that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy, when in fact he had a large number of wives, many of whom were very young--under age by modern standards. The current official sources that investigators are steered to have largely removed anything that appears questionable in an effort to make the church seem more mainstream. By doing a little research with outside sources, or from sources that are non-sanitized versions of LDS documents, like the Journal of Discourses, the investigator can find some things that are quite different from what the missionaries present.

Also, while it is true that anyone who currently practices polygamy is excommunicated, the church does teach that there will be polygamy in the celestial kingdom (the LDS version of heaven). As an example of this in practice, active LDS widowers can be sealed (married in the temple "for eternity") to another woman after the first wife dies, leaving him with two "eternal" wives.