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Why shouldn't AP be about rules? - Page 6

post #101 of 117
Rule#1 – NO CIO
Rule#2 – Breastfeed
RULE #3 – Baby bonds with a primary caregiver
RULE #4 – Wear your baby
RULE #5 – Cosleep


I don't think any of those rules are even relevant any more in my family. I mean we're not going to be bf'ing or wearing a 9 year old and I couldn't get my DD to co-sleep even when I begged her post surgery. And THANK GOD she's bonded with many, many wonderful people.

So what are your rules after the first five years??? Believe me once you got big kids you got a lot more complex life than this.
post #102 of 117
Ah, this thread gets better and better.

Mamas, don't take what JJ says personally. She obviously has a lot of pent up anger to deal with, and I reckon it really has nothing to do with how other people parent.
post #103 of 117
Well said

I think I'm cynical b/c I've started reading inflammatory posts w/a grain of salt.
post #104 of 117
A valedictorian gives a speech at her graduation...here's what she says...."I'd like to thank my mother for the way she raised me...it was truly attachment parenting..she respected me as a person from the time I was a baby...responded to my needs...hugged and kissed me...listened when I talked..and played with me...oh wait..she didn't use a co-sleeper...nevermind...someone else can take my place..I am traumatized."
post #105 of 117
ya know.


The OP, has her opinion. She has a right to it.

Let's move on people.

post #106 of 117

Juniper our scapegoat

Gotta wonder why I love this thread so much (images of honey mouthed dragons aside).

I wonder of Juniper has become our whipping boy. We make her the fall guy for all the guilt we feel for judging mamas, for the lists of "rules" we cary in our own head, for our self-rightousness and smug complacency. We know it is wrong, but it is so hard not to do it; so instead of owning up to it and self-flogging admidst the required mea cupas, we make her do it for us. We abject our sins onto her, suffer her a thousand tounge lashings, and thus pretend that her vocal sins are not our silent ones. Is there a difference between thinking it and knowing you are wrong to think it and saying it and thinking you are right to say it?

For this goat-girl Juniper needs a medal, or at leaat a big scarlet J.
post #107 of 117
Originally Posted by JuniperJoy
Comments like this are just so sickeningly racist and xenophobic.
Yes, your comments were racist and xenophobic. I'm glad to see you are coming to terms with that, it takes a big person to admit they were wrong.

Casting entire cultures of women as nothing more than happy, AP-rule following mothers is patentely ridiculous, not to mention being racist. Women all around the world lead lives just as complex as ours. Claiming anything else is absurd.

Now I hope you'll tackle your misogyny.

Good luck.
post #108 of 117
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
...Is there a difference between thinking it and knowing you are wrong to think it and
saying it and thinking you are right to say it?...
There's a world of difference between thinking a judgemental thought about another mother, realizing it is wrong and trying to change your thinking vs. thinking a judgemental thought and defending it to the death.
post #109 of 117
Thread Starter 
I judge you so you judge me back for judging you so I judge you back for judging me for judging you so you judge me back again for judging you for judging me ....

Who knows how to say hypocrite?

And isn't it just too funny that y'all can jump over me for being sob - harsh and mean - sob - gosh you would never say anything like that to a child - (does that mean you're a child?) while you post your own bile and venom?

Who is that has anger issues?

Gee, not the oh so sweet and supportive mothering dot commers. Not you, no way.

Seriously, do you have any idea how many women you alienate with your nasty ways? Think about it.

You can't alienate me, because I'm already an alien.
post #110 of 117
JJ, I just wanted to remind you that I am a mother. I come to MDC because I want to meet other parents (I live overseas) and because sometimes I need some advice about my child. I respect the posters here and I contribute as thoughtfully as I can when I post. It makes me angry that I took time to engage in your post and you are not reading what I have to say and because it seems obvious that you want to argue about lots of other issues. I just wish you would show that you respect me (until I prove otherwise) when I post.

And, just so you know, this is from a mother with no excuses about your short list and much, much more. I’ve also travel quite a bit ~ I’m trying to figure out what’s important to you and what you’re about. It sounds like you’re doing really interesting things with your life and I think you would offer a unique perspective to MDC. So, what’s up? What’s going on in your life? Is there something that you want to discuss – get out – work through? I’m not being sarcastic. I just had this experience a while ago where all kinds of things were coming up for me in my posts and it was because I had some “issues” to work out. It happened for me that some posters at MDC helped me by calling me out on my “stuff”.

Now, got to run – I have some posts on MDC that actually seemed productive and I want to give my time to those.
post #111 of 117
Ahhh JUNIPER, I just read your past posts. You did say something controversal once (and I backed you up BTW; safty is another thing I think this board is a little uptight about). Are you still upset about that? The claws did come out that time, but several mamas supported you, especially toward the end of the thread when people start talking about freedoms and laws.

You've had such insightful posts on here (the one about you MIL and consistancy is one of the smartest things I've read on mothering - incredibly tolerant and gentle, like nothing you've posted in this thread). I'd hate for your posts from hereafter to be so willfully combatative.

Look threads get otta hand sometimes. I've a left baord (mamatron) because I got my feeling hurt in a thread, and that was just silly cause nobody would have remembered except me. And 9 times out of 10 we can't associate usernnames with past posts anyway (they all met together - mama2bean, londonmama, cuddlylovinmama . . .), so not only would no one have remembered the thread, no one would have remembered taht it was me being sulky in the thread.

I promise you if you lay down the weapon and walk away from this poisonous thread and from your own embittered conceptions about honey mouthed dragons on this board, mothering can be a happy home for you again.
post #112 of 117
Did I miss a thread about US safety? Man – I always miss the good stuff, which I’m actually interested in! If there was some thread about the overblown safety concerns of “mainstream” US parents, I’d have been right there with you! But, I was busy this month actually meeting some of these honey mouthed dragons IRL!

Good call, mamawanabe! Could we find some common ground?

Personally, I’d love to discuss how similar some European, North American and Australian values are – seems to me that SO many people seem to idealize some of these places and view them as so far superior to another. In fact, my experience is that they are really very similar.
post #113 of 117
Oh, BTW, where are you two ~ up at this hour?
post #114 of 117
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama
Oh, BTW, where are you two ~ up at this hour?

insomnia brought on by not writing my dissertation cause I'm posting too many snotty posts in this thread :

I am about to take a sleeping pill.

There is too much idealization in mothering period. It is part of what keeps women down (cause we are too guilty about what bad mamas we are to find the emotional energy to fight for political and social and economic access.)

Where is our feminist marching emoticon??

Can you tell it is 3 am here
post #115 of 117
Damn. I lost my post.

Anyway, we get this crap from our pediatricians, our mother-in-laws, and our nosy neighbors. Everyone has their own set of RULES that we are all breaking in one way or another. It is just ridiculous, and I honestly don't see the point of posting your own set of rules that everyone should follow in order to be "AP" and if they don't, then they are just making "excuses" because your way is the one true way. I've read things you have posted in other threads that go against the very things you are preaching here. I seriously wonder if you are just posting this to get a rise and if you don't even really believe it.

Have you ever given your children bottles? Even with EBM that goes against the "rules" of many women here. Why did you give them? Don't answer that. They are just meaningless excuses. I can guarantee you that you have engaged in practices with your children that many women here would say that there is no excuse for.

I admire any parent who does any of those things to any degree. The society we live in is not very supportive of parents who choose to follow their instincts and actually listen to what their children are telling them before they even learn to talk. Now we have you, and I don't doubt that you are the only one who feels this way, refusing to support any woman who does anything less than what you consider the ONLY way to raise children. C'mon. Babies left in cribs behind bars DIE? That is what they say to scare us out of co-sleeping, that we will suffocate our children.

I guess I don't understand your point. Is it just to assert your superiority over other mothers here?

And pugmadmama is right. Your romaticising of "primitive" cultures is racist and offensive.

Unless you can stand here and tell us all that you are the perfect parent and you have everything figured out, well, what the hell are you doing? What is your point?
post #116 of 117
OK, I had a big response to Juniper all written out in my head. It was sarcastic and outraged.

But after reading some more posts, particularly Darshani's, I've changed my mind.

You see, I know my story is all over MDC. It is my sanctuary and support. I've leaned on it heavily in the last 8 months. I feel like I have friends here.

I also know the struggles that other women have gone through here. They've been brave enough to share their lives with us. It has given me strength and hope.

There are some brilliant mamas here, creative, compassionate, funny, and human.

The only thing this thread is accomplishing is to hurt, tear down, belittle, and judge. I'm done. to all the wonderful mamas hurt by this nasty thread. You do not need to justify your actions here.

post #117 of 117
Sorry folks. Disagreement is one thing but personal attacks and general community-directed negativity and insult is crossing way over the line.

While we enjoy and benefit from friendly debate it is clear that the OP has no friendly intentions nor good will toward this community so there is no point in continuing this discussion here. Bashing of our community by others, whether they be LLL members or other offline or online communities outside this forum, is beyond our control but we certainly need not accommodate it here.

Thread closed. Go sheathe your claws and replenish the honeypot mamas.
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