or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Why shouldn't AP be about rules?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Why shouldn't AP be about rules? - Page 5

post #81 of 117
May you never have a sickly child. May you never have to endure months of sitting by your child's bedside, trying to be a good parent when all you can do is look at the child. May you never have to make some tough decisions in life that require you to think outside the "box" of your rules.

From what you are saying, since I did not...

Rule#1 – NO CIO
Rule#2 – Breastfeed
RULE #3 – Baby bonds with a primary caregiver
RULE #4 – Wear your baby
RULE #5 – Cosleep

I was not a good parent. Yet, I couldn't breastfeed as my son was on intravenous nutrition for 5 months and I quit pumping when my doctor's said he would die one night. Thankfully he lived but I just couldn't pump anymore. He did get my four months of pumping every two hours for 1/2 hour...which lasted 6 weeks. I couldn't wear my baby...he was hooked up to a ventilator for 5 months, on oxygen tubes for another 7 months and so many other wires that your head would spin. Oh yes, and his belly sticks out as if he were 10 months pregnant with twins making carrying him very difficult. Did I mention he was 30 lbs at 6 months due to all the swelling? And cosleep...of course not...he was in a hospital crib!

But I suppose all the hours I spent at his bedside, singing and talking and reading and learning about medical procedures and watching my son get hurt, sometimes hourly, as they had to run another test to make sure he was getting enough oxygen isn't good enough.

There are no excuses you say.

May you never have to walk in my shoes.
post #82 of 117
For my family, I'm committed to the ideals that the OP has mentioned, and for the most part, they have worked.

But...the purpose of AP is to create secure children.

Secure children grow into secure adults who don't feel the need to judge others in order to feel better about themselves. I hope my children will feel good enough about themselves that they will not put down others for fun, and I hope that none of my actions or words will teach them to be cruel.
post #83 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by pln
But...the purpose of AP is to create secure children.

Secure children grow into secure adults who don't feel the need to judge others in order to feel better about themselves. I hope my children will feel good enough about themselves that they will not put down others for fun, and I hope that none of my actions or words will teach them to be cruel.
Well hot damn mama, didn't you just sum that up perfectly?

post #84 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by pln
For my family, I'm committed to the ideals that the OP has mentioned, and for the most part, they have worked.

But...the purpose of AP is to create secure children.

Secure children grow into secure adults who don't feel the need to judge others in order to feel better about themselves. I hope my children will feel good enough about themselves that they will not put down others for fun, and I hope that none of my actions or words will teach them to be cruel.
What she said.
post #85 of 117
I love my children.
I've always responded to their needs.
I respect my children.
We are attached.

End of story.
post #86 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by pln
For my family, I'm committed to the ideals that the OP has mentioned, and for the most part, they have worked.

But...the purpose of AP is to create secure children.

Secure children grow into secure adults who don't feel the need to judge others in order to feel better about themselves. I hope my children will feel good enough about themselves that they will not put down others for fun, and I hope that none of my actions or words will teach them to be cruel.
post #87 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Yes yes, why don't you go to some of these countries and find all these happy babies. You'll find mothering a pleanty to fit your preconceptions, but you'll find LOTS of other kinds of mothering. All those happy baby girls deserted on church doorsteps in China, all those low caste child wives abused in India, all those devoted single moms in Thailand who have to work the streets cause there are no jobs availble to them - believe they'd put thier babies in a decent daycare if they could - instead they give their neighbor a dollar and if the baby is neglected and dies, nobody but mama cares and no one is arrested.
Comments like this are just so sickeningly racist and xenophobic.

Oh yes, pity the poor third world peasant woman - nothing but single mothers and prostitutes and street vendors - do you know how insulted and furious these so-called "third world" women are at being represented as nothing but impoverished whores who can't take care of their own children?

Most people are leading simple happy lives, taking care of their children (following the AP rules without even knowing they exist, becuase that's how normal humans take care of babies), and are not especially happy at their portrayal in western media.

This thread is a perfect example of why MDC has a reputation in the real world as a coven of _________ (you fill in the blank). All the women in my LLL group know about this site, but I'm the only one who posts, because they know that as soon as they say something the slightest bit controversial, all the honey-mouthed dragons are going to unsheathe their claws.

But I'll keep posting, because I know for a fact there are a ton of people who feel the same way I do, and who like to see their own thoughts supported in a forum like this. They would just never post here, thanks to the inspiring level of maturity and hypocrisy demonstrated.

And you know, I have suggestion. Rather than update your ignore list (What grade are you in, again?), how about you just pass by any threads that I have posted. Save yourself the trouble of keeping score.
post #88 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperJoy
And you know, I have suggestion. Rather than update your ignore list (What grade are you in, again?), how about you just pass by any threads that I have posted. Save yourself the trouble of keeping score.
FYI, this is what an ignore list does. She tells the boards which posters she doesn't want to read and so when she goes to a thread she just won't see that person's post.
post #89 of 117
Are you getting dizzy up there on your high horse?
post #90 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperJoy
Oh yes, pity the poor third world peasant woman - nothing but single mothers and prostitutes and street vendors
Did you actually read the post to which you were responding? Maybe you just accidentally skipped over this part:

"Yes yes, why don't you go to some of these countries and find all these happy babies. You'll find mothering a pleanty to fit your preconceptions, but you'll find LOTS of other kinds of mothering."

Your brain seems fixed in absolutes. The world is not black and white, my friend. Open your eyes. Maybe you'll lose the blinders and realize that things aren't always as they seem at first glance.
post #91 of 117
Is Juniperjoy going to kick me out of the AP clubhouse?? *bites nails*

Wow, one more person who doesn't approve of my parenting. What a shock. Fortunately I have had a lot of practice in not caring what other people think about my choices.
post #92 of 117
You know....Dr. Sears said these SAME things...only he was a lot more gentle at saying things. And even HE, who coined the term 'attachment parenting', understood that everyone has different circumstances. There is a right way and a wrong way to educate...telling people that it's all or nothing is going to do nothing but make people loose trust in you and ignore you. AP isn't "all or nothing"...some women have to work and so their babies take bottles. Some can't use carriers. Some can't co-sleep. There are situations that warrant this. I agree that there are some ideals...but that's what they are. Dr. Sears never said that the 5 b's were RULES...he said they were IDEALS. It's great to aspire to those ideals, but sometimes they are not possible.

To me, it's better to show your kids how to love others by being a good example. Preaching the rules and judging people and telling them they don't belong in your exclusive "AP" club is not showing love and respect. Be an example of GENTLE teaching. You wouldn't dare speak to your children the way you are speaking to some of these ladies.
post #93 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperJoy
Oh, everyone's got an excuse, don't they?

Some of them are valid. Most of them are not.

The trouble with all the invalid excuses is that everytime you give one, you've just given someone else one more excuse to add to their repetoire.

When I talk to mothers (and I'm a specialist in mother-child ESL classes) in other parts of the world, they think these excuses are hilarious.

Go to India, China, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, East Africa, Bolivia, Paraguay - you will see baby after baby after baby sleeping in someone's arms, nursing, and generally being happy, normal babies.

In all my travels, the only groups of people who even knew what colic was were the Westerners. UK, Australia, Canada and America - these cultures have babies that hate to be held, cry inconsolably, wean themselves spontaenously, love daycare from birth, prefer to be held in plastic contraptions, do all kinds of happily convenient things for the parents.

If they are valid excuses, they would be universal - something that HUMAN babies do.

But they're not universal. They're cultural. And culture is nothing but a set of rules.

So change the rules.

And stop making excuses.

And you must be seriously kidding if you think North Americans aren't fat and lazy. Obese and sedentary, if you like your truth sugar-coated.

Sugar's not good for you, though. Take it straight.
I suggest you read Mothernature a book that inculdes a discussion of what REALLY happens in all those lovely other cultures when there is a child that doesn't quite fit in with the culture of holding and co-sleeping. Let's just say its NOT pretty. And CHINA are you even kidding? They are abandoning or KILLING their little baby girls. YEAH they are a wonderful example.
post #94 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya43
I suggest you read Mothernature a book that inculdes a discussion of what REALLY happens in all those lovely other cultures when there is a child that doesn't quite fit in with the culture of holding and co-sleeping. Let's just say its NOT pretty. And CHINA are you even kidding? They are abandoning or KILLING their little baby girls. YEAH they are a wonderful example.
LOL...I was wondering about the China example too....nothing gentle about that...
post #95 of 117
Quote:
This thread is a perfect example of why MDC has a reputation in the real world as a coven of _________ (you fill in the blank). All the women in my LLL group know about this site, but I'm the only one who posts, because they know that as soon as they say something the slightest bit controversial, all the honey-mouthed dragons are going to unsheathe their claws.

But I'll keep posting, because I know for a fact there are a ton of people who feel the same way I do, and who like to see their own thoughts supported in a forum like this. They would just never post here, thanks to the inspiring level of maturity and hypocrisy demonstrated.
Pot, meet Kettle.

Um, what was the point of this thread anyway? "Why *shouldn't* AP be about rules"? I think you have the answer.
I always believed that AP style recognizes the varieties of ways of doing things right for your children and family, recognizes the varieties of families, acknowledges that parents, and not outside entities (like nosey neighbors or "authorities") are the parenting experts. And so by nature, Attachment parenting style is about making the right choices for your family and your children, taking into consideration the personalities, experiences, needs, etc. of each member of the family. It's a wholisitic way of family living. You can't slap absolute rules on a wholisitc system.

Quote:
Nobody ever feels guilty about doing the right thing. If you feel guilty about how you're taking care of your baby, that's a sure sign you're doing something wrong. Listen to your own heart. It tells you when you're making a mistake
--the OP's sig line

Excellent advice, OP. Advice that can't be squeezed into a box of rules.

People who try to put other people down are generally working through personal issues, so this is not meant to be a flame or an attack, Joy. I'm just hearing lots of hurt in your posts. If you're hurting because of something that we don't know about, leave it at that. We don't know about it. Focus your anger and hurt on the cause, not on those of us who come here for support and encouragement because we don't always feel like the parenting experts in our families, whose choices are only validated by the positive results we see in our families (and sometimes not even then), and even when we have to let go of our ideals of perfect parenting in order to be attached parents. So stop lashing out, Joy, we all have a lot in common, stand by your ideals, and may you not be too traumatized if *you* have to let go of them.
post #96 of 117
Juniper you aren't reading these posts. You aren't even reading the posts you choose to quote.

Your version of "third world" mothering is a western fantasy of "natural" and is as xenophobic and racist as other more negative but equally simplistic depictictions; the countries you mention are as complcated and as founded on cultural norms as the west.

I was about to write that this thread is a little like kicking a baby (forgive the figure of speech), but you last post makes me think it is more like kicking the troll baby.

This board annoys me sometimes too because it is too uptight about things (swearing, hoochie clothes etc) and a little too eager to protect kids from the world we live in, but it is a "good" place, and by that I mean a place where mamas really try to help other mamas. We discuss and disagree and sometimes get a little snotty, but I've never been afraid to post my opinion. That every poster in this thread disagrees with you (after your third or so post) might tell you that you need to reconsider your pov. I did so as I read the swearing thread and saw my pov outnumbered so (I changed my take on it slightly). Reconsideration is not a bad thing.
post #97 of 117
I guess I'm practicing attachment parenting all wrong then, 'cause I just thought it was about taking cues from my baby and parenting to match those cues. So, when she couldn't latch and would get so frustrated at even trying that she'd just cry herself into a little baby ball of misery, I sorta just took that as a cue that nursing might not be the best option for us. I kinda decided I liked having a happy, lovingly bottle-fed baby rather than a constantly miserable child who hated to be close to her Mom for fear she'd have to start nursing.

What a crappy mom I must be. I'm sure if you saw my healthy, joyful little girl, you'd probably agree that I'm doing it ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL wrong.

Oh, and maybe here's a cue you're missing, since you seem to be all about knowing what AP is...if you post a thread and virtually EVERYONE disagrees with what you're saying, maybe you're the one who's wrong, not everyone else.
post #98 of 117
post #99 of 117
Quote:
But...the purpose of AP is to create secure children.
Boy, I didn't know what to expect when I finally opened up this thread, but wow, : I think you nailed it.

And, you know, wow. Amazing we keep having these threads, discussions, rehashings, etc. Why do people feel the need to judge and measure.

And,
Quote:
And you must be seriously kidding if you think North Americans aren't fat and lazy. Obese and sedentary, if you like your truth sugar-coated.
Um...I'm not. Are you? Maybe if you tried to fit some exercise into your life, you may feel better. Or, just learn to accept yourself as you are. Might take some of the stress out.
post #100 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperJoy
all the honey-mouthed dragons are going to unsheathe their claws.
That is actually a really great image.

Imagine a circle of dragons, thier mouths dripping with honey, slowely taking the leather sheathes off thier claws one at a time.


We definately need a honey mouthed dragon emoticon or better yet an emoticon for epople who refuse to read what others actually post
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Why shouldn't AP be about rules?