Support for Parents of Gifted Children, #2 - Page 3

[maya44]

Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire

I would also be very surprised that they identified only two gifted students in ten years. Sounds like their assessment system may need an overhaul. Just my uneducated opinion, though.

Baudelaire
B.A. English
M.A. English, University of Chicago
English teacher since 1995
Gifted endorsement in process

I think you misunderstood my post. Our principal and my good friend told me that every year one person asks this question at a big public meeting (in other words about 10 people) and of those 10 only two had a child that was later indentified as gifted. She says that those with truly gifted children are less likely to feel the need to "brag' about it by asking the question at a public meeting.They arrange for a private discussion of their child. And many such children are identified every year. Our school is actually fairly good about this. In my daughter's class, two of the children in the gifted class are also pulled out for help for learning disabilities. So the school is really fairly on top of things.

[USAmma]

My dd is doing great with the Bob Books. She thinks they are funny and will laugh out loud sometimes, even though she's already read that one 10 times. She's on book 5 in the first set and so darned proud of herself.

Darshani

[quietplease]

Charles Baudelaire,

I agree with you on many points. We are new to this district, so I do not know how flexible they are with the criteria. However, we live in a VERY liberal area, and our school principal has a special education background herself, so I feel optimistic that they would bend the rules if asked.

You are a teacher, and I was one too before I had children. The fact is, public schools have to contain costs in some way. There are only so many dollars to spend. I do think it is reasonable to set guidelines on gifted testing. Remember, they have to pay for each copy of the test they administer (and I think there are 3 tests per testee), plus the salaries of whomever is administering them and grading them. In our district there are probably a few hundred kids each year who WILL qualify based on the criteria alone. Imagine doubling the cost if they tested everyone who asked. Where does the money come from? What DOESN'T get funded instead?

"Hire another psych" makes it sound like it's just that easy. You know it's not. And it's unfair to imply that the regular curriculum leads only to a career cooking fries. MOST people spend their school careers in the regular classroom, and MOST are successful adults.

QP

[supervee]

It used to be the case, at least in some states, that you received more funds (federal? state?) if you had more kids with special needs, including needs for gifted programs. Is that not the case anymore? If it is, seems they'd want to test anyone who asks!

[supervee]

teehee on stacking the deck! What about card games? Rummy is fun for starters. Othello might be a logical step up from checkers; good strategy in that one. Scrabble or Boggle for word fun. Cranium games are flashy but surprisingly well-thought out.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by supervee

teehee on stacking the deck! What about card games? Rummy is fun for starters. Othello might be a logical step up from checkers; good strategy in that one. Scrabble or Boggle for word fun. Cranium games are flashy but surprisingly well-thought out.

Cranium games ARE amazing. Anyone who rejects them as "plasticy" is losing out IMHO. Also, Smart Mouth, which is a really simple game in flashy form. Yeah, you could make the basics of it for about a penny. But my kids LOVE it and it is a great game for building word skills.

Another great game is Mayan Madness which teaches kids about negative numbers, really cool.

[supervee]

Also, Smart Mouth, which is a really simple game in flashy form.

Ooo, that would be pretty easy to make. That's what I can do with all those leftover alphabet flash cards.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by quietplease

Charles Baudelaire,

I agree with you on many points. We are new to this district, so I do not know how flexible they are with the criteria. However, we live in a VERY liberal area, and our school principal has a special education background herself, so I feel optimistic that they would bend the rules if asked.

You are a teacher, and I was one too before I had children. The fact is, public schools have to contain costs in some way. There are only so many dollars to spend. I do think it is reasonable to set guidelines on gifted testing. Remember, they have to pay for each copy of the test they administer (and I think there are 3 tests per testee), plus the salaries of whomever is administering them and grading them. In our district there are probably a few hundred kids each year who WILL qualify based on the criteria alone. Imagine doubling the cost if they tested everyone who asked. Where does the money come from? What DOESN'T get funded instead?

"Hire another psych" makes it sound like it's just that easy. You know it's not. And it's unfair to imply that the regular curriculum leads only to a career cooking fries. MOST people spend their school careers in the regular classroom, and MOST are successful adults.

QP

Yeah, I know it's not so easy to hire another psych -- and I do realize that money's tight, which is why I (more reasonably, when my ranting had somewhat abated... ) suggested they test the lower-income folks first.

Oh, of course regular school doesn't lead to french fries - I should have made myself clearer. My bad...What I should've said more explicitly is that it's often the lower-SES kids who really get shafted when it comes to gifted education. Due to racial / ethnic bias, behaviors in the classroom that may not fit the perameters of "acceptable" classroom behavior, and often due to limited time with parents -- who may not be educated to their potential -- those kids often don't get identified for gifted testing in the first place and often (due to the same reasons as I listed above) end up in the lower-level classes for many of the core subjects. That *does* tend to lead to lower-paying jobs in general.

It was all very clear in my head when I *thought* it! Sorry it didn't come out that way when I actually *typed* it. Whoops.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

Plus she cheats all the time. (Eg in CandyLand she tries to get to the cards before I do, to organise them in order so that she gets the best ones. Then she insists that she or I go first, so that the right ones turn up for her. )

: :LOL : I used to stack the deck in Candyland. See, the rules state quite explicitly that the youngest child present goes first, and that usually meant that I went last. Stacking the deck was really easy to do, and I was slick; I could do it without getting caught. Did you know that you can win Candyland in three turns? It was my own silent protest: I really had no desire whatsoever to play Candyland, but felt obligated to play with my younger sisters. Stacking the deck meant the game was over more quickly. Of course, I knew my sisters were beyond it when one of them asked me to stack the deck for her.... :LOL She figured out not how I was doing it, but that I was winning too quickly too often for it to be random.

Report cards: The problem with using them as a marker is that if the teacher hates you, your report card will reflect it. I was bored out of my skull in first grade, but I still did all of my work. My teacher had no place to complain about me; everything was finished and was (usually) perfect. I was quiet, I raised my hand before I spoke, and I was never a discipline problem. Still, the woman despised me. Not only was she a racist, she hated children in general. (Don't ask me why she was a first grade teacher; to this day, I couldn't tell you.) The fact that I was so obviously bright just made things worse.

Our reports cards were given to our parents; after my mother recieved mine, she gave it to me. I still remeber having "3" in "Works and plays well with others" and all sorts of other social things. I asked my mom what that meant and she said "It means you wipe your nose on your sleeve instead of asking for a tissue." (I had just done this.) I rolled my eyes and said that if her tissues weren't the hard, scratchy, "Big Top" kind and if we were allowed to get out of our seats and get them ourselves that I'd ask. (See, my mom was a "smart alec" too. I come by it honest!) Then my mom asked me if I played with the other kids during recess and such. I told her that I hated to play with them because they wanted to play house or school or boring games that I just wasn't interested in. I'd rather read a book, but I wasn't allowed to I was forced to try to play with these kids who irritated me so much! My mom nodded, and I was aware that I did not in fact "work and play well with others."

[eilonwy]

Sorry! BooBah "helped!"

At any rate: the story of why my third elementary school (first grade) refused to recognize me as gifted until the end of the school year is a sad, painful one, but it really all boils down to racism. A system that decides who to test based on report cards would have to take this into account: in elementary school, kids spend all day with one teacher. If that teacher hates them, they won't fit the criteria for testing, regardless of how bright they are.

I know that BeanBean is not the same kind of child that I was; he's entirely different. When I was 22 months old, I talked like a mini-adult and had been not only out of diapers but using the toilet, wiping, and washing my hands for several months with no assistance whatsoever. I wasn't reading at that point, (my mother was working very hard to prevent it, because a teacher told her that children shouldn't learn to read before they go to school) but I still managed to learn all of my letters and the sounds they made, and could count to 150 and then by 50's to 1000.

BeanBean doesn't do these things; he knows his letters & sounds and can count to 18, but that's it. He's been out of diapers for a few weeks now, but still has occasional accidents, and he can't wipe himself well or wash his hands without help. He talks, but he talks like a baby most of the time. Even so, I know that he's very bright. If my own awareness of him and his abilities wasn't enough to let me know, then the look of dismay or surprise on the faces of other parents would still tell me that he's extraordinary. Will he "test" as gifted? Would he qualify for gifted programs in school? I dunno. I'm not concerned about it. I'm not sending him to school, and this is just one little tiny reason for it. I will avoid having my children's IQ's tested for as long as possible, because I don't want to have my own expectations of them changed. A Nobel prizewinner a few years back found out that his IQ was 114; when he asked his mother why she'd never told him, she said "We didn't want you to worry about it," and that's how I feel about the whole thing. Maybe they'd test high, maybe not, but it wouldn't change a thing: BeanBean is different from other children his age, and I need to respond accordingly. He's an individual, and right now he's very far ahead of his age-mates. I'm inclined to doubt that it will all even out some day, but if it does it won't change a thing. He'll still be an individual.

[pilesoflaundry]

Originally Posted by moonlightinvt

. Our elementary school currently has a 22:1 student/teacher ratio and that just scares me.

What kind of ratio's do you all see in your schools? I can tell that you all, obviously, do a great deal of homeschooling on top of what your kids do at school. Do you think that without it your children might loose that love of learning (I know I certainly did--hence these questions).

Around here the 22:1 ratio is what they consider "good" after building a new school, last year it was 30:1 sometimes 31-32:1!!! After I heard that on the news no way I was going to send my kid to public, I was pretty sure I wanted to homeschool anyways (because of his adhd etc) and that was the shove I needed.

[quietplease]

Charles Baudelaire - we now completely agree! Thanks for clarifying!

moonlightinvt - our kindergarten currently has 25 kids and 1 teacher. It is considered full and our district is busing the overflow kids to another elementary school. To me it is huge for that age level and I plan to keep my eye on how DS does in there. I feel hopeful because I just get a really good feeling from his teacher - if anyone can manage it then she can! I would completely homeschool if necessary, but I know DS would prefer to attend a regular school if possible. I currently do lot of what I think of as "unschooling" with him in order to follow his interests. He loves that, but if I try to just work on his printing or phonics he checks out. DS would be a different kid if we didn't encourage his interests, but I can't say how it would affect his formal schooling as he's only been formally schooled for a week!

QP

[teachma]

I hope you don't mind my continual lurking here. I am a public school teacher of second graders, as well as a mom to my maybe-gifted 4 year old son. Additionally, I am the first of 3 siblings and the only one whose IQ score fell just below the cut-off for "giftedness." So, I read with interest from many different perspectives and will possibly contribute sometime soon!

[The Lucky One]

Hi Mamas! I posted once way back on page one, but my boys keep me so busy that I've barely had time to read, let alone write anything.

Darshani, I never have recomposed that message, but I'm glad that Nitara's surgery went well, bless her little heart. Most of my message that got wiped out was about my ds1's struggle with reflux. Maybe some day I'll get the energy to retype it

As for me, I'm coming to terms with the fact that dh and I only know how to create one type of kiddo, and that is a high-needs one. Ds1 was SO SO high-needs. It took 100% of my energy all of the time just to keep him on the cusp of happiness. He rarely slept, and when he did it was very fitful, mostly because of the reflux, I guess.

I had thought ds2 was different. Sure, he needed to be held most of the time and nurse a jillion times a day, but he actually slept, and soundly at that. But now, he's out of the newborn-sleep-all-the-time phase, and I'm coming to realize he's just as high needs as his brother was. He is almost 4 months old, and sleeps very little through the day. He nurses every hour day and night. All of this I could handle, heck, even expect. But, just like ds1, he is starting to require almost constant stimulation, or he isn't happy. He wants to be shown everything, walked around, talked to, etc. I know most babies want this to some extent, but my babies have been so different, they need it and will protest immediately if they don't get it. Ds2 is so frustrated right now. He wants to look at, mouth and play with toys. He wants to interact with his brother. It seems like he wants to talk and form words, but he's trapped in a 3.5 month old body. Ds1 used to be the exact same way. I swear, he wasn't a bit happy until the day he could sit unassisted.

I'm just having trouble meeting both of their needs at the same time. It's tough having two who both seem to require almost constant interaction.

Were your kids like this when they were babies? Both of mine have seemed like older children trapped in the bodies of babies. My friends babies just aren't like this! It's not like I want ds2 to sit idle in a bouncy seat for an hour at a time, but he won't even tolerate one minute, unless I'm hovering over him talking and stimulating him.

Luckily, my dh starts a 2 week vacation starting on Friday, so I will have some help.

[teachma]

Originally Posted by Britishmum

anyone who finds their child's abilities beyond the norm and therefore challenging, or has a genuine interest in giftedness,

Yes, these two pertain!

[teachma]

Originally Posted by The Lucky One

Were your kids like this when they were babies? Both of mine have seemed like older children trapped in the bodies of babies. My friends babies just aren't like this! It's not like I want ds2 to sit idle in a bouncy seat for an hour at a time, but he won't even tolerate one minute, unless I'm hovering over him talking and stimulating him.

Yes, yes, yes! My ds was super-needy as a baby and no less needy of attention as a 4 year old. Dd is only 5.5 months old and sounds a lot like your 2nd child, too. My ds actually said to me, in tears at 18 months old, "When will I be bigger than you?" He has never been happy as a kid, and I feel this has partially fueled his desire to meet those developmental milestones very early.

[FreeRangeMama]

On asynchronous development: What strategies do any of you have for dealing with the challenges this can bring? I mentioned before about some of our issues, especially ds' crippling anxiety and his refusal to eat. He cannot go without food forever, though he will surely try. It is not a situation where I can wait it out any longer, he has hardly eaten in months and no strategy (or absence of strategy) has worked. I am at a loss and his health is seriously starting to deteriorate. I am going to try to take him in to the doc later this week, but what do I say? Um, doctor, ds won't eat because he is afraid of digesting food and he doesn't like how sticky and cruchy it is. What is she going to do about that? He is very sick today, probably just a virus. I am not surprised though, when you never eat how can your immune system function well. I am very worried

Any ideas?

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

I am at a loss and his health is seriously starting to deteriorate. I am going to try to take him in to the doc later this week, but what do I say? Um, doctor, ds won't eat because he is afraid of digesting food and he doesn't like how sticky and cruchy it is. What is she going to do about that?

2 That's exactly what you say. If he's losing weight, the doctor may suggest a supplement (something like Pediasure) and if he's severely dehydrated or undernourished, he may be hospitalized. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to put him on medication for the anxiety (paxil most likely, maybe zoloft; definately an SSRI) or if they recommend counseling for him.

You might try posting in Special Needs or Parenting Issues about children with anxiety disorders like obsessive-compulsive disorder, or generalized anxiety disorder, or even anorexia nervosa (which is called something else between the ages of 3 and 9, but I can't remember the name.) Some of the moms of SID kids may have advice for you, too.

I think that many people who aren't living with brain disorders see them as being "all in your head", something you can just think your way out of. I'm sorry to say that it isn't true; I've been trying to think my way out of all kinds of issues and it just doesn't work-- sometimes my brain just won't listen to me. It's beyond my control, and I can't change it anymore than a type I diabetic can change the fact that they need to inject insulin to survive. Some degree of anxiety is normal, especially in gifted children, but in my opinion refusing to eat for months on end crosses the line between eccentric and disordered.

[teachma]

Interesting how many gifted children and adults are also prone to anxiety and other disorders. We (ds and I, to some extent) deal w/ major anxiety, minor food issues, and minor ocd tendencies as well.

[FreeRangeMama]

It is a challenging situation To further complicate things he has food allergies so he CAN'T eat many of the things he would eat. He also would be allergic to any kind of suppliment. Besides that I doubt he would take it. He does get some of his aversions and texture issues from me though so I can sympathize.

I come from a family full of people with mental health issues, so I am familliar. I will not medicate him at all though. After seeing the many approaches to these issues from up close and personal I don't believe this is the answer for us. In general the meds have done much more harm than good in comparison with the people in my life. It is also not the way we approach health care. With my son he needs logical explainations to allieviate his fears. I know that is the best strategy with him given all we have been through, but sometimes there really are no logical answers for a 3 year old.

As for assessment, we are going to persue it at this point. It is not something we have wanted to do, but at this point we don't have a choice. We always follow his cues and it is pretty obvious what needs to be done at this point. We will allow it as long as ds is comfortable with what happens, as soon as he wants out we will respect that.

I know the anxiety is a phase of sorts (at least the severity of it). We always go through it when he goes through a leap in development. It is like he all of a sudden sees the world in a whole new light and isn't quite sure how to react. It is just so hard for him. Things got worse immediately following his latest leap. It was as though he aged 6 months to a year both mentally and physically within a matter of days. He just looked and talked so much older all of a sudden. That is the typical pattern for him, but his mental development is so quickly outpacing his emotional that he gets further and further out of sorts.

Thanks everyone for your input. It really helps to sort things out to discuss it with people who understand. We are taking him in to the doc on Thurs. to get a referral and to have him checked out. Dh will come too so that he can take ds out of the room when I discuss the sensitive issues.

Keep the input coming if you have it