UC thread #9...Sept. '04 - Page 9

[firecat]

that is so cool, I am glad to hear there is a good birthing community there!
I wish we could make a commitment to move there but its just not time right now

[sprinkle pocket]

wow! i leave for a couple weeks and what a beautiful return--3 new babes among us...congrats to the mommies, enjoy your babymoon. thanks for sharing your stories; i can't wait to see pics showing them off!

i of course can't remember who asked for more info on my friend's uc (who had placenta previa), but i got some details. she's in such a transition period in her life these days, that we don't really visit. but i was able to get info about her uc from a mutual friend: our friend had her dh there and a girlfriend who'd uc'd her 1st/only dd, and i'd guess her 2 neighbors who are good friends of theirs. at some point in labor the girlfriend checked in the birthing mama's yoni and what she felt was soft/squishy...didn't feel like a head. so they started flipping through their books and decided it was the placenta. they think it was a partial placenta previa and only partially detached at that point. so, knowing the risk of hemmorage and life, the friend pushed the placenta aside and helped pull the baby out (now a big 'ol healthy 4 yr old boy). mama was bleeding too much and they called for an ambulance. (my friend knew they didn't give the mama tien chi or cayenne for the bleeding and when i mentioned shepherd's purse, she thought that sounded right.) b/c they live way up in a remote mountain cabin, it took a while for the ambulance to arrive. by this time she was passed out and white, but i got the impression that the bleeding had abated (?). so this is when my friend's kids started being too loud for us to continue talking, so i don't know if the mama transferred or not. in our community, it's somewhat known that transfusions can be unhealthy and actually extend the time it takes the body to recover the blood balance in the body, so if the bleeding was stopped/reduced, i don't know if she would have wanted to transfer or not. interesting story, nonetheless.

klothos~any idea how long it will be before getting word on your article?

[Kundalini-Mama]

Hi mamas!

I have some general, basic, questions that I have wanted answered for some time. So I figured I might post them.

Okay, cord care. I plan to keep the cord and placenta attached until it is all limp and loose. And whenever it feels right to cut it. I am going to be eating the placenta. So, some questions have arised:

1. If I am hemoraging (and can anyone spell that correctly), I plan to cut a chunk off and put it under my tongue or btw my cheek and gum. Do I need to cut the cord before this happens? Is there a risk of infection to baby if I use a sterile knife and not my teeth?

2. Sterile scissors. Can I just boil little dinky nail scissors? For how long?

3. Cord tying. What is the procedure. I was planning on braiding some embrodiery floss? How many threads is thick enough? How long do I boil it? Do I tie off the cord closest to baby first, and then an inch or so closer to me? Does it matter if the cord is all limp?

Okay, I know there are more, but I can't think of them. I'll post again when it comes to me.

Thanks,
Amy

Oh, wanted to add:

How long does it usually take to get all limp and loose? And how long can the placenta be in the fresh air before I shouldn't eat it--is there a time limit or something?

[Ame]

1. If I am hemoraging (and can anyone spell that correctly), I plan to cut a chunk off and put it under my tongue or btw my cheek and gum. Do I need to cut the cord before this happens? Is there a risk of infection to baby if I use a sterile knife and not my teeth?

Dunno - but my best guess is that it wouldn't matter which spot but under the tongue is most concentrated area and will be most effective. You won't need to cut the cord first - the placenta will be open and taking a chunk won't affect the cord at all. It shouldn't matter what you use as the polacenta is no longer a part of the baby and won't transmit infection.

2. Sterile scissors. Can I just boil little dinky nail scissors? For how long?

IMO little dinky nail scissors aren't enough...to me it's like cutting through raw meat....and you need to be able to have a good grip & control. We used sewing scissors but you could use cooking scissors too. Boil for 5-10 minutes...as long as they don't have plastic handles.

3. Cord tying. What is the procedure. I was planning on braiding some embrodiery floss? How many threads is thick enough? How long do I boil it? Do I tie off the cord closest to baby first, and then an inch or so closer to me? Does it matter if the cord is all limp?

It only took Lucy's about 20-25 minutes..it doesn't take too long. We used one peice of embroidery thread - not braided just a peice. Dental floss or anything slighty thicker than sewing thread should be adequate. The way you're "supposed to do it is to tie the thread around the cord about two inches from babies stomach and then again about two inches from there (does not matter how far from you it is) then you cut between the two threads.


How long does it usually take to get all limp and loose? And how long can the placenta be in the fresh air before I shouldn't eat it--is there a time limit or something?

No idea...but looking forward to the answer.

[Aura_Kitten]

article

haven't submitted it yet; have been working on the bibliography so the references are all in order.

[laurata]

(Warning: transport stroy inside)

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

what/when (if any) legal repercussions or cps involvement could happen surrounding a UC?

DH & I are just wondering what would happen in the event of a transfer (post birth) of the baby or if (god forbid) baby died at home?

I'm sorry to bring a negetaive topic into this thread but I've been wondering for awhile and have heard some scary things as well (that have happened to others) that make me nervous.

Rainbowmoon, I can only share my experience. I transported after my UC 2 1/2 yrs ago. I had a mostly unassisted pregnancy- I stopped seeing the CNMs I'd "hired" after 2 visits, around 17 weeks. I just couldn't continue to see them, it was too stressful. At the time, I told the receptionist I wouldn't be returning, I was seeing a homebirth midwife. (I was intending to, and decided shortly thereafter to UP/UC.) Back to my story:

Nova was born just a day after my true due date, reasonably big baby, 9#10. My dh wasn't at all happy about me not having a hospital birth, and as a result, we didn't communicate very well during my pregnancy. A few times we discussed his fears- he was terrified of losing me, and to a lesser extent, the baby. So we discussed mostly the possibility of hemorrage, or retained placenta. I didn't know that he was afraid of meconium in the waters. He didn't know my fears of a stuck baby. (I had done some research and made the conclusion that, "It's really really rare, and much more likely in a managed labor. I probably don't need to worry about it, and anyway, there's not much you can do about true dystocia." --I can elaborate on how my feelings on this have changed, if you want.)

I progressed pretty quickly. I woke around 2:30, *knew* this was it around 5:30, and I believe entered transition aroun 7, 7:30. And I transitioned, and transitioned, and transitioned. I was pushy for a long time, maybe several hours. Just before Nova FINALLY crowned, she passed meconium. Dh freaked. I think he may have asked if I knew "infant CPR" around then. I know he asked at some point, but I'm not sure when. I just grunted at him. He told me he needed to call 911. I thought it was because she was stuck, and in dispair, concented. Long story short, he called, I told him she was coming (she crowned), he ended the phone call, and her head was born shortly thereafter. After several minutes, what seemed like an eternity, I finally had another contraction and the rest of her was born. She didn't look good. She recovered slowly, and the medics didn't come, didn't come.

We wouldn've been fine if dh and I could have pulled ourselves together to get Nova and me into clean clothes and a nice warm bed. But no. Dh called 911 again while I held Nova and tried to clean us both us a bit. I birthed the placenta, and kind of hung out in the bathroom. When the first responders and other medic people arrived, Nova was not doing fantastically. She wasn't warm enough, and I think she was using her energy to try and stay warm. Plus she was bruised, etc. So we went to the hospital where the CNMs worked.

Really, there were no repercussions, legally. Only emotionally. I was "required" to see a social worker before discharge. That freaked me out, and I worried for months about a home/ follow up visit. I realize now that she was probably not w/ social services, but on staff at the hospital. I was bullied into a few procedures that I didn't want. (I was nervous about refusing too much, for fear of CPS.) A few doctors were nasty to me, but overall, most people were nice and respectful. One nurse even asked as we were leaving if we'd planned to have Nova at home, ourselves. I shyly said yes, and she advised us, "Next time, do the same thing, just don't come into the hospital." That was very validating, and I feel we've learned from our mistakes.

I think that the biggest risk is someone taking it upon themselves to call CPS on you. Calm confidence is your biggest asset. I know that my knowledge earned me respect from the nurses, at least. The mere fact that I could confidently say, "I prefer not to use pitocin, I know how to do uterine massage and would like to do that instead" won several over.

This is getting really long. Please feel free to ask questions, and I can elaborate on anything I've written here.

[rainbowmoon]

laurata-thank you for your honest reply and sharing your experience. I'm glad your baby was ok! how is your hubby now in relation to UC? would he do it again?

I don't know what answers I'm seeking specifically but just others experiences!



btw WHEN exactly is meconium dangerous?

I was sent an article recently from a MW in New Zealand, that stated meconium isn't always dangerous (couldn't access the complete article though and now I've seemed to have lost it)

[laurata]

Okay, here's the scoop on meconium, as far as I understand it:

Mec is quite common, especially in "older" babies. Something like 1 in 3 term babes will pass mec. It freaks some out because of the risk of MAS- meconium aspiration syndrome. A fairly small number of babes who pass mec will actually aspirate it. An even smaller number with develop problems after aspirating it, and of that group, a very, very small amount get sick and die. However, it (the risk of death) works out to be a risk of something like 1 in 100 of those who actually aspirate. Here's some funny things about this though: Intubation doesn't seem to lower the risks of aspirating mec. In fact, some studies have shown worse outcomes in babies w/ deep throat suctioning! Also, preterm babies can have the same symptoms as mature babies, even w/o mec. Only they call it pnemonia instead of MAS!

I wish I had some actual pages, studies, and stats readily avaliable to share, but I know they are out there. Essentially, I think only YOU can know if you think it's a problem. I wasn't worried about mec at all, and intuitively felt that Nova was fine. It was my concern that she was stuck that had me freaked out. I generally forget to mention that she probably was "stuck" as she had a "dislocated shoulder" and there were other symptoms that she was sticky. But that's another subject that I could go on and on about, and really, the important thing is that she came out and was just fine, once she got cozy and warm.

I'm pregnant with our third now, due in December. Word on the street is that I have an Ob and may be planning for a possible c-section. However, I do most of my own prenatal care, and assuming all goes well, this babe will be born at home. My dh and I, to be honest, haven't taked much about the birth, but will be more, as the date approaches. He's not unsupportive this time. He was very, very fearful before our last birth, and I haven't noticed any of that this time.

I, on the other hand, am really struggling. I've had to work through a lot of issues for myself. The birth was very intense. It was much more than I had expected. So now I have fears of pain, fears of not being good enough, fears of not knowing when to ask for help, and fears of death.

But most of all, fears of an unpleasant hospital stay. I'm probably a total freak, but I plan of packing an emergency bag a few weeks before I am due. I know so many UCers who say it's tempting fate, and maybe it is. But my dh was completely incompetent when I asked him to bring stuff for me at the hospital. So I'll have a bag with a few outfits, and a nightie, undergarments, cloth diapers, my sling, my "medical records," herbs and homeopathics, a list of phone numbers, insurance info, and signs that say "Nothing but the Breast, Please." I feel like a freak for needing this, I didn't even pack a bag for my planned hospital birth. But then, my mom was around to take care of me. This time, I really need to feel like I am prepared for anything that happens.

[mellie-bellie]

On the topic of meconium...

It's interesting to see a discussion on meconium. My last 2 births were midwife-attended homebirths, so the midwife was always on the look out for the signs of meconium staining when waters broke. This time around, I didn't put much thought to it about "what if there's meconium staining in my waters". I guess I went into this birth VERY confident that all would work out, and if things got to the point that I needed medical assistance, I was reassured by the fact that we're 3 miles away from a "good" hospital. So anyways, Cypress was 11 days late, and it's interesting that Laurata mentioned meconium mostly being a prob in older babies. Literally, 10 minutes after the dude was born, I was covered with meconium. Once I noticed it, I sighed a big one and thought, "wow, glad he waited to do that until after he came out". Speaking of meconium, this dude pooped meconium 6 times in his first day of life, I was amazed. Anyways, I'm rambling.....just thinking aloud how thankful I am that the birth went so well

[rainbowmoon]

Thanks for the info on meconium, I think I will do some more research on this! I was always under the impression it's always bad, especially the darker in color?

wow I can TOTALLY relate to all of your fears too laurata! I will be a VBAC (not pg yet though) but thinking of everything you mentioned already.

you are not a freak either! i definitly don't think it's tempting fate either to be prepared either with your hospital bag packed. I was taken to the hospital by ambulance a week PP after ds was born and literally went with just my underwear,bra and robe on! ugh...it was horrible. not to mention it took DH the course of 6 days to bring me necessities after being transferred to another hospital(ie;deodorant,shoes,etc). anyway my point is you never really know when the unexpected will arise, it's better off to be prepared than not IMHO!

[ComaWhite]

How long does it usually take to get all limp and loose?

1 hour or so

And how long can the placenta be in the fresh air before I shouldn't eat it--is there a time limit or something?[/

I dont know either, but I would just throw it in the fridge, and then you wont have to guess....

[cottonwood]

Laura wrote: "Intubation doesn't seem to lower the risks of aspirating mec. In fact, some studies have shown worse outcomes in babies w/ deep throat suctioning! Also, preterm babies can have the same symptoms as mature babies, even w/o mec. Only they call it pnemonia instead of MAS!"

And Andrea wrote: "I would be more worried about dammage done to the esophagus and lungs by suctioning and then the left over meconium getting in the dammaged tissues which were sucked dry of their natural portective mucous coating.... As long as the baby is showing no signs of distress over the swallowing/inhaling I would leave it be and not worry..."

Yes. I don't have the studies at hand either, but you may be able to find some info here: http://gentlebirth.org/archives/meconium.html

[rainbowmoon]

what about salting the placenta? I have heard of people doing that to preserve it. btw are you planning a lotus birth Amy?

Andrea- how did you dry your placenta?

[ComaWhite]

On another topic, I feel very happy about my birth. Proud. Strong.

But on another level, I find so many faults with what I did... iI constantly think to myself, "next time I will..." and "next time I won't..."
I feel like I need to go at it again to perfect the process.
I dont want another baby yet and our family isnt ready for a 4th yet, but I just really want to birth again...

Anyone else feel this way about their uc's?

[rainbowmoon]

andrea the ginger/lime combo sounds yummy. how long did you steam & bake it? did you cut it up first? if so how?

[majazama]

I dehydrated my palcenta the same way as Andrea. I have it in the freezer, but don't feel the need to take any of it. It's perfectly dried and ground, but I wanted to put it in the freezer to make sure it would stay preserved. I tried taking two capsules once, and it was hard for me to digest. I kept burping up the flavor.

Her is the thread I started about PPD and eating your placenta... There are good links in there. I also described exactly how I prepared mine.http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=109978

[ComaWhite]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, just towards those who made *innocent little comments* or pm'ed me with nastiness over the past year. Fortunetly it did not happen too often, but I need to vent tonight, so here goes:

(nak) i think a lot of why i feel this way (my previous post) is critism form other uc'ers and some people here on mdc.
ive had a few of people tell me that i wasnt happy with my birth. (and how dare you!)
that it wasnt a "true" uc because dh's cousin was there for the last hour (Im sorry but is there a protocol that we are supposed to follow? Did I miss that part?
that they are sorry that dh's cousin "managed", interfered and ruined my experience (which she totally and completly didn't)
that it was my fault that I hemmoraged (not badly, we managed it fine ourselves) and that if I had freebirthed properly it wouldnt have happened. (are you for real????? )
That the fact that my ec wasnt a totally spiritual experience
and that I didnt catch my own baby and feel instant holiness that somehow my uc didnt measure up.
Ive had people pm me with all of this "helpful" info (in their own words) "as to not embarass me"

We all have an ideal freebirth. We all have a vision of exactly how we want it to happen. More often than not, the actual experience differs, because thats just how life works.
Why then, do we need to feel dissapointment, like we failed or something...
I often wonder, when reading an "ideal" uc birth story, how much of it is true. How much of it did the mother feel she needed to exaggerate or fabricate in order to feel like she lived up to everyones expectations.

Where did this snobby, clique-y attitude surface from?

When did this become a competition?

Dunno. Just venting.

[majazama]

Andrea~ I'm sorry that people have attacked you and I sure haven't had anyone attack me (yet) about my choice to have my child unassisted.

I too feel like there is a cliqueness to saying (for example) "UC baby", "UC birth", or "UC born", because if you word it out it would be unassisted childbirth baby, birth or born respectively and that is kind of redundant, IMO. I personally prefer the term freebirth, or freeborn, or born free, because unassisted infers that assistance is the "norm" or whatever (which it is, but it would be great if that would change).

I'm proud of how I birthed my little grrl, and it went EXACTLY as I wrote it down in my birth story. I just didn't write all the boring details of hour after hour what happened. I was just so amazed at how easy, simple, and damn awesome it was, as my first (MW assisted birth)DD came out with me *screaming*. You might find the same when you have your second baby.

many blessings, mamajaza

[ComaWhite]

Just to clairify, *Mamajaza*,
I didnt mean to imply that any of you specifically had made up parts of your birth stories.
I guess it came out wrong.

What I meant was that I was wondering if mamas feel like they should edit their stories for fear of negative comments or criticism because maybe something they did or didnt do wasnt up to the "uc standards" or that someone had a "better uc" or whatever that means...

I was wondering because, as I mentioned, I sometimes feel the same way. That the criticism I recieved somehow implied that I should have done better.
Or that I should edit out the specific parts out of my birth story that were critisized.
Or that sometimes I wish I could do it over to get it "right" this time, because even though I was 100% happy with my birth, I had set very high standards for myself and feel that maybe it could have gone better had I known more.

Thats all, no offence meant! Im just trying to start up a discussion....

[Aura_Kitten]

What I meant was that I was wondering if mamas feel like they should edit their stories for fear of negative comments or criticism because maybe something they did or didnt do wasnt up to the "uc standards" or that someone had a "better uc" or whatever that means..

heh. i specifically forced myself to write it down exactly as i perceived it, and everything that went on, so that people would see the entire spectrum of what a freebirth could be like.

i used strong language because that was what was going through my head during (and right after) the labor + delivery. i hear glowing accounts of these births that "didn't hurt at all" and i'm sure that for *some* women they don't... but for me, it hurt. and i don't want to water that down to make it look better, because i want people to see that it's ok, and that sometimes birth hurts ~ and you get through it, you survive, and you're stronger for it.

i included my thoughts (that i couldn't do it, that i was going to die) because that's what transition felt like for me. although i was really worried that someone might read that and be terrified... ultimately the entire birth was so INTENSE and so POWERFUL and so EMPOWERING ~ why would i choose to edit out a part of such an amazing experience?

... although, thinking about it now, i'm sure nobody would ever read mine and think i made it all sunshine and roses for anyone. :LOL

just my 2 cents. (and fwiw, i didn't photoshop the pictures at all either, just cropped... i didn't ever get around to cleaning up the bathroom garbage before the baby came and i was so embarrassed that it's so messy in the pictures!! but hey, life is like that sometimes.)