UC thread #9...Sept. '04 - Page 5

[Kundalini-Mama]

Thank you for all the and the I am feeling so freakin' fantastic

I got a phone msg from her today (yes, I was too chicken to pick up the phone :LOL ), and she just stated how happy she was to get my e-mail and how she couldn't wait to talk to me about it. I was out for most of the day and unable to get in touch w/her, but she e-mailed me as well.

As I can't post her msg, I'll paraphrase some points she made:

*She trusts my body
*she apologized for not having the medical knowledge of the rhogam; said I was her first Rh- mom to bleed prenatally. Said she prefers to put her energy into "alternative" medicine vs. allopathic, if given a choice
*she apologized for "pushing" me to get in touch w/my body
*she then started discussing the CPS issue, but missed the point that I'm afraid that my dad and MIL would call if I went unassisted, not w/her. So she just explained how she was licensed and all that.
*she doesn't have to be in the room w/me at all during labor and birth. Offered to teach my DH how to listen to heartrate
*She was excited that I'm so intune w/my body, and have confidence in my body's ability. Said she wished more moms were like me.
*Wants to discuss my son's birth in more detail (hospital birth), to see what hindered me there and such
*Apologized for "prying" into my anxiety. Revealed some personal stuff
*Said that there didn't need to be another m/w at the birth, or student. She likes the m/w there for emergencies. Asked if she wanted to have her student stop coming to the prenatals (which doesn't bug me at all, its not like its the birth or anything)
*Just reiterated how glad she was that I e-mailed her, and how she can't wait to talk to me. She also explained how she isn't a good internet researcher and welcomed any assistance I could give her.

So I feel great, and I really can't wait to talk to her. I really feel like I can move forward now w/this and stop wasting so much energy

Thanks!!
Amy

[Aura_Kitten]

[Aura_Kitten]

update: article

WELL it's taken me a few nights of staying up until dawn, after everyone else fell asleep + i could finally get some quiet time (!!!!! !!!!!) but... i think i'm almost done w/ the article!

any last-minute input you guys have would be totally appreciated!

eta ~ should i include my own freebirth experience in the article or just stick to describing unassisted childbirth??

[Evergreen]

I would include your expeience.

[cottonwood]

Amy, I'm glad you're feeling so much better about your situation!

Klothos, ooh ooh, I can't wait to see it -- do we get a sneak preview?

[sprinkle pocket]

amy~ i'm so glad you had the courage to speak your truth! it can be a little nerve-wracking beforehand and during, but man-o-man, sooo liberating when it's done! i love hearing about people doing that. way to go! sounds like your mw had a really great response to it, too. that must've made you feel alot better.

klothos~that's awesome that you put in the long hours to write the article!! it's so needed. i can't think of any new input to suggest. i'm sure you did an amazing job. as for including your birth story, i think, depending on the slant/approach you took, having a personal account like your birth story could increase what people take away from the article. you may even consider not saying it's your story, so people can't think you're trying to convert them to your way b/c it's the right way for you, but rather using a real life example to illustrate the points you address in the article. you know what i mean?...like when people get defensive of a new idea and attack the messenger, rather than hearing the idea? wow! i can't wait to see it in print!! let us know what they say, please, please?

firecat~ yes, rainbow light and new chapter are both brands that have prenatal formulas. both are food-based, vegetarian, and contain probiotics. they're the highest quality, most available to my body that i've found. whole foods has been having cheap (relative to regular) prices lately on new chapter's prenatals. and i actually watched ebay and got 2 huge bottles of rainbow light prenatals, with lots of time until the expiration date (important to ask!), for soooo cheap, like $10 or something, plus s/h.

[Aura_Kitten]

thanks for the input.

(( i hope they accept it!!!!!!!! ))

[Asheville Mama]

looking for feedback

I'm still new to this board and just found you guys...I'm so glad I did. I have really enjoyed reading your posts.
I am hoping for some feedback from the moms who have already had UP/UC as that's what I am considering. I had my dd at home with a midwife who was very hands off so in a way, I felt I was close to UC then. But here's my issue, I am confident in my body, my connection with my baby, and how I will handle labor and birth. What I'm not as confident about is newborn assessment. I am nervous that the baby will be born and I won't know what signs to look for if there were a problem.

I feel 95% sure that the baby will be totally fine, but there's that slim possiblity that there might be some problem and I'm afraid that I wouldn't either recognize it or know how to handle it. The only thing that brings me back to having a mw is having someone who has seen more babies eyeball mine. I have talked to several mw and every time I think, "what am I doing? I don't want this."

I guess I just want some reassurance! So, if anyone has some input, I'm all ears.

[cottonwood]

There is a pretty good section on newborn assessment, IMO, in Rahima Baldwin's book Special Delivery. I think there's also some info in Spiritual Midwifery.

And welcome to MDC!

[Carrieanders]

sonya, we already had our baby. I wanted to caution you a bit, based on my own experience. A dr treated us like we were not only insane, but garbage for asking him to assess our new born 16hrs after birth (I didn't fear he had any problems, just wanted to show him off a bit, tell our story and maybe assuage MIL's fears, she's a nag when she's concerned we'd be seeing alot of her b/c she had the older kids for a few days) he called our regular peid (who we've seen 1x in 5yrs--for one of our 3 other children, but he was listed as "primary" on our insurance). and the harassment began. I'm not shy and asked all the right questions and stood my ground.

it didn't occur to me in the least that we would set off alarms in the medical community by asking for a check up. all we got were puzzling questions and half answers. Before I knew it I was getting subtley veiled threats about how my baby HAD to been seen again. I refused (This was 1 day post partum, it was blissful treatment). Before long, we stopped answering the phone and turned off the ringer. I had 1 day of rest. then we needed a birth cirtificate (for insurance purposes) our dr withheld our baby's medical records and threw up all kinds of red tape for us at the vital records place. we were treated as if we had kidnapped the child. If we lived anywhere besides CO (which seems unusually forgiving when it comes to this sort of thing) I can see it would have been worse.

When I finally chose to see our regular dr (who seemed fairly cool and does our sports-related physicals for the older kids) we had even more complications. (questions I was forced to half answer and let him assume the rest) Even 5 mos later I'm still sick and angry about how hellish this time was, all because a weirdo like me tried to fit the mold for once and do the expected thing we've since seen specialists (at the dr's insistence) for THREE different things. when he started spouting off about "chronic smallness" and barium x rays and such i lost it, I'm composing a letter to tell him what I think of him and have since left the practice.

something about UC sets off fires under most people. (I still can't appreciate WHY! it's so foreign to me) If you have a mw that has a reputation for calmness, I'd just see her after the birth for an assessment, if you still wish it at that time.

When we have our next UC, I'l be locking the door and pulling the shades and not leaving my bed or babe for a month.

5 months later, I'm still trying to get to know my little buscuit. I feel cheated and sickened by the system.

Don't do anything in life just to appease someone else, I've learned when you do, you are asking for trouble, and compromising yourself and your beliefs.

My great grandma had 5 children, unassisted (including twins) in a one room cabin, outside an extremely poor coal town in WV. she was 4' 8 and full of nails. she drank and smoked and caught catfish with a bit of string. Most awesome lady I've ever met.

WOMEN are the experts here. Once your baby is born, you'll loose these fears I'm sure. You'll know she's wonderful and you'll enjoy your time.

[3_opihi]

I think about this too sometimes. My big thing is I wonder if I will cut the cord right. I'm sure everything will be fine, but for some reason I'm really stuck on this.

As far as knowing about the baby. I would say go with your mama intuition. If you inherently feel that something is wrong with your babe, then call someone. I personally, wouldn't however, call a doctor. Are there any naturopaths in your area that could check the baby if something goes wrong? A midwife would be good too, but naturopaths seem to be more neutral towards UC and many of them do wellbabys, some even have 'obstectrical' certificates. I think its definitely a smart idea to have a backup person to call. Not necessarily because I think anything will happen, but being the kind of person I am I have to have everything planned out and set to go. Then my mind seems to be more at ease.

Take care, and welcome to the boards

[Asheville Mama]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I hear you on the MD thing. My dd (21m) has never seen one, and I'd like to keep it that way! My dh is a chiropractor and so we are all about trusting our bodies. Where I live, the homebirth atmosphere is mixed. I haven't met any UC here yet, but I know there are some. The mainstream opinion is definitely that we'd be crazy to do it. I have given some consideration to who could come check the baby after the birth and realize it needs to be the right person. The mw I've talked to so far don't strike me as the type that would agree to just come after the birth. I know I could just call late but I really don't want to lie about it either.

Then I think about dd's birth, my mw was concerned about IGR and possibly some birth defect because my fundal ht. was 7 cm "off." I was having visions of my baby being born with no legs because of what she said : But when dd was born, there was no worry, I never even looked to see if she was "ok." I just felt that everything was perfect, and it was.

I think part of my fear is because I have a close friend who had an UC and her baby developed problems and died about a week later. I just see the sorrow they endure and I think, that could have been anyone. And if it were me, would I have seen the problems, and if I did see them, what would I do. So there again is the back and forth in my head.
Thanks for the book suggestions. I think that if I just educate myself and get mentally and emotionally prepared, these doubts will subside.

I have also considered hiring a doula to be at UC to help with the clean up, etc. Has anyone else done that? We don't have anyone locally as far as friends or family that we could have to help.

[cottonwood]

We live in an area where homebirth with a midwife is tolerated pretty well. If I ever needed to take our kids into a doctor I've always just said that our primary newborn care was done by a licensed midwife, and have never been questioned further. The last time, after our UC, I had done the newborn exam myself and had some questions about her hips (I myself had congenital hip dysplacia), so I had her checked by a ped for a "second opinion", meaning that I lied and said a midwife had done the initial newborn check-ups. Maybe that stoked his ego a little bit that I (apparently) wanted his advice over a midwife's, I don't know, because the only thing he bugged me about was vaccinating, but let that go when I politely and sweetly stood my ground.

In general, though, I agree with the others, if you possibly can, stay away from the medical system. First of all, do you really want to take your healthy newborn somewhere that is filled with germs? Second, you have to be so careful about what you do and don't say, and that is a lot of stress and if they don't like what you have to say they have a lot of power to make your life miserable. It would be well worth it, it seems to me, to cultivate a relationship now with an alternative practitioner, like a midwife (some will do well-woman and well-baby care outside of pregnancy and birth) or a naturopath. I know too that there are reasonable physicians out there, maybe you can find one by word of mouth (LLL, etc.) and then do an anonymous phone interview, asking how they feel about various things.

Mamamaya, what is it about cutting the cord that you are worried about?

[majazama]

Originally Posted by mamamaya

My big thing is I wonder if I will cut the cord right. I'm sure everything will be fine, but for some reason I'm really stuck on this.

Don't worry about when to cut the cord... just don't cut it till it's totally cold and limp. You can stay with the cord attached for days (lotus birth) when it falls off. when you cut it, just tie it REAL tight. My partner was trying to be "gentle"when he tied the cord, and she ended up bleeding a couple of drops (not much, but I did tie it again)

Ashville mamma~ you will know when your baby is born, as you knew when your DD was born, that she was perfect. I don't know if there are many abnormalites that can't be spotted on the external... i know of cleft palate, and the hip thing. I guess there could be heart defects, or other internal defects which you would worry about. but its not like the baby would get an x-ray at the exam, right. Just think what would a doctor do ? they would check the hips, the palate of their mouth, look over the baby's back, and palpatate the baby's tummy. things which you could do yourself. doctors are not magicians.just my POV.

[sprinkle pocket]

i just got some exciting news! i was in the herb store and totally out of character, i ended up telling the owner that i'm planning on uc. she said there's a whole group of women that live a town or 2 over (we live in a smmmmaaallll town, so a town or 2 over is quite local) who have uc'd. she said she'd pass my ph# on to them next time she sees them. i'm sooo excited to maybe be able to ask mamas who have been there about getting birth certs locally and such. also, i'm not sure i want a newborn exam, but i'm excited that i could ask if they got them and from who. wow! uc women irl in my town...who woulda thunk it?!

indigolilybear~~that's so funny about you planning for an aries and birthing so early that your dc was pisces. we started ttc planning not only for the warmth of spring to labor in, but also as a side benefit of aries or taurus. i'm due in the middle of aries, and hadn't even considered pisces as an option! i'm so used to hearing about the uc women that were all going to well over 40 weeks for a while no this thread. too funny. well we'll see. i just realized it'd be neat if i went a few days over and had an april fools' baby. that'd make for some neat bday parties.

klothos~ hopefully they'll take the article as is, but if not, i would hope that they'd give correctable reasons why not. :

[Asheville Mama]

Thanks Mamajaza, I know you're right. I think my concern is mostly the respiratory condition of the baby. My dd wasn't suctioned thankfully since I didn't even think to ask the mw if she would do that or not. Sometimes I wonder what I was thinking half the time! But I'm wondering if I would be observant/objective enough to see any signs of RD. I keep reminding myself, that even if I did, I wouldn't want the conventional interventions/treatments.
This may sound weak, but i think part of the appeal of a mw to me at this point is to have someone share the responsiblity of checking the baby. That way if there is a problem that we don't see, that I'm not the only one who missed it. I know that sounds like a cop out and I'm working on trying to trust myself & dh.

[majazama]

Ashville mama~ I know this *awesome* lay MW in B.C., who told me that whenever she goes to a birth, she does'nt suction out the mouth because she thought it gave the baby "something to work on"..... think of little calves born in fields, or kittens... their mother doesn't lick out their mouths or suction it with a bulb syringe(:LOL)

I also feel that putting a bulb syringe in the babies mouth unneccessarily is kind of an invasion to their bodies. But I imagine, if your baby is limp and lifeless when it is born, you would be very concerned and would want to do anything that might work. A lot of UC moms just suck out the babies nose or mouth with their own mouths.

When my DD was born, she came out purpley, but was still attached to the pulsing umbilical cord, which supplies the baby oxygen. she started breathing quickly after, and cried a bit. I was never for a second worried that she wasn't o.k.

Also, when my first DD was born (actually just about a week after your DD) I feel that my MW (*not* the lay MW I talked about earlier) was way to fast to whip out the oxygen tank. My DD *was* breathing, and I knew it, but she was trying to prove herself as being neccessary, because I had told her earlier in the pregancy that I was considering UC. So you never know what kind of scare tactics might be involved with some of those "proffesionals".

[sprinkle pocket]

ashvillemama~i've posted these remedies before, but it's a good thing to repeat! these were ones that another mdc mama posted (i wouldn't have the patience to type it all! lol) and there's lots more out there, but these are the ones she had in her mama/baby birthing 1st aid kit. maybe it's something to consider having on hand, since they're useful in daily life for other symptoms too once birth is in the past.

i know a woman from the last city i lived in whose baby didn't breathe for quite some time and while the dad freaked, the mom just massaged the baby and quietly spoke to her and loved her and soon enough she started breathing. another mom i know had a mw who is familiar with homeopathy and when her son was born, they considered him too gurgly and gave him one dose a remedy...but like mamajaza was saying about 'something to work on', babies often just work it out themselves if we butt out. so anyway, here's the list, for what it's worth...

(ok, i just read through it briefly, and it looks like it's mostly for laboring mamas, but an mdc or google search will lead to lots of info on newborn remedies, too. i'll post it anyway, just in case anyone is interested.)


HOMEOPATHIC BIRTH KIT
QUICK REFERENCE

SOME GENERAL NOTES:
1. Look at the whole picture (physical and emotional) and choose the ONE best remedy that seems to fit the symptoms the most closely (not every symptom listed needs to be present to choose the remedy). Ask questions if necessary to ascertain symptoms that can’t be observed
2. Give only ONE remedy at a time. Watch and see if any changes occur. If none seem to occur after 15 minutes, try the next closest remedy.
3. Give one large pellet or 5-10 tiny pellets.

ACONITE:
· Distressed, anxious, fearful, restless
· Tossing in agony
· Skin red, hot dry
· may scream out
· have glassy, staring eyes, dilated pupils
· symptoms have sudden onset
· labor too quick
· pains extreme, violent, terrifying
· mother feels panicky, distressed, despairing
· mother’s heartbeat rapid or uncomfortably strong
· newborns in shock, color normal but not crying/moving
· worse: at night (especially around midnight), touch, noise
· better: fresh air

ARNICA:
· #1 trauma remedy
· encourages healing, controls bleeding, reduces swelling & likelihood of pus formation
· reduces exhaustion, gives a 2nd wind, particularly during long, slow, painful labors where tiredness makes surges weak/ineffectual
· use for shock, when someone claims to be alright, but clearly isn’t.
· reduces excessive bleeding where birth was traumatic/unusually long or short
· worse: being touched or examined, any jarring movements, lying or sitting on injured parts

CARBO VEGETABALIS:
· the “homeopathic corpse reviver,” this remedy has saved many lives
· symptoms at their most extreme are complete state of collapse due to oxygen starvation.
· Body cold, limp and pale, or blue
· Use in conjunction with other efforts to revive respiration. Hold one pill inside the lower lip of patient (including newborns) until symptoms alleviate.
· In fetal distress due to oxygen starvation, give to mother to reduce risk of asphyxia to baby.
· Less severe cases: extreme sluggishness, little or no vitality, coldness (even breath), intense air hunger (epseically cold)
· Face appears pinched, pale, sallow or blue
· Excellent remedy for trapped wind.
· Worse: exertion, heat, humidity, lying down, morning and evening
· Better: fanning, fresh air.

CAULOPHYLLUM:
· Usually used in 1st stage of labor to establish strong, productive surges. DO NOT use routinely. If needed, surges will be centered in lower half of uterus, while top feels flabby.
· Although sharp and painful, surges are short, ineffective, spasmodic and unstable moving around the bladder, groin or thighs.
· Sometimes surges will slow or stop completely due to exhaustion.
· Cervix fails to dilate.
· Symptoms include chilliness, shivering, trembling and irritability. May be thirsty during surges.
· If thirstless and Caulophyllum fails, try Gelsemium next.

CHAMOMILLA:
· Extreme over-sensitivity and violent bad temper
· May demand help one moment and reject it the next.
· Abusive and argumentative, especially with loved ones.
· Finds pains unbearable
· May scream frequently or say “I want to die.”
· Feels and looks overheated.
· Better: being uncovered, stripping off clothes
· Worse: evening, fresh air, company, being spoken to or stared at.

CIMICIFUGA:
· Very similar to Caullophyllum: surges in lower half of uterus, painful, sharp, spasmodic. Cervix remains rigidly closed/fails to dilate properly.
· The differences are:
o surges move from side to side or down into the hips and thighs
o gestures, speech and actions become horribly disjointed
o physical symptoms often alternate with intense mental/emotional symptoms.
· Full of dreadful fears/foreboding, perhaps because of a previous experience of birth.
· Sense that “I can’t carry on” is meant in the most profound sense.
· Chilly
· Worse: cold, damp
· Better: lying on left side

GELSEMIUM:
· Next best choice if Caullophyllum fails to produce good strong surges.
· Very useful if labor is slow and sluggish.
· Physical heaviness, even eye lids droop, producing a dazed, stupefied appearance which belies the mental alertness that is there.
· Body paralyzed by exhaustion or “stage fright”
· Muscular weakness leads to trembling
· Chilly, possibly shivers up and down the spine
· Thirstless
· Worse: physical exertion, over excitement, receiving bad news (i.e. that cervix has dilated less than expected)
· Better: sweating, urinating, being alone

IPECAC:
· labor pains or bright red hemorrhaging with constant violent nausea.
· Face is deathly blue with dark rings under eyes.
· Hot & cold sweats.
· Worse: at night; for food or sight/smell of it.

KALI CARB:
· Useful in backache labors, where nagging pain is felt in the back, buttocks and thighs
· Mother is often extremely irritable, yet needs company
· Posterior presentations where labor gets stuck
· Backache greatly relieved by very firm pressure.
· Headaches during labor
· Chilliness after surges
· Worse: night and early morning hours, touch, noise
· Better: warmth

KALI PHOS:
· often recommended for exhaustion. Very helpful during labor if no other strong symptoms.
· Best taken between surges.
· Can be used throughout labor whenever energy is low.
· USEFUL FOR ATTENDANTS, TOO.

PULSATILLA:
· Easy to spot when needed because of clear emotional symptoms: weepiness, clinginess, pleading for help.
· Surges are short, weak or stop entirely.
· Pain may be felt in the back.
· Other physical symptoms: exhaustion, faintness, nausea, thirstlessness, vomiting.
· Worse: stuffy room, twilight, getting cold or wet
· Better: fresh air, moving around, sympathy & company

SECALE:
· like Pulsatilla, intolerant of stuffy rooms, but emotionally more stupefied in labor, with much longer surges. If these stop, trembling may start.
· Can be used to encourage a retained placenta to be pushed out naturally, if surges are too weak.

SEPIA:
· pains severe, dragging down, much relieved by exercise.
· Emotionally: irritable, or indifferent to loved ones, responds badly to sympathy.
· Sluggish and weepy.
· Useful for treating uterine prolapse with strong bearing down sensation.
· Worse: fasting, touch, staying in same position.
· Better: after eating, moving around.

[3_opihi]

About the cord - I'm just confused as to where to cut it? Do I clamp it then cut it? Do I clamp it on my side and the baby's side and then cut in between? As you can see I need to do a little reading on the subject.

My last baby was a waterbirth and was never suctioned. There is a natural reflex as the baby comes out where your vagina will actually squeeze the baby and push the excess mucous from his mouth. I saw a video of it once, it was really cool! Anyway, he was pretty blue when he came out, but I massaged him and held him for a minute and he pinked right up. He did kind of gurgle and then barf up a pretty big glob of mucous that night, but the mw had warned me about it. I just turned him on his side and it came out. If he had choked on it a little I would have suctioned him a bit.

There is a great book about homeopathy for pregnancy and the first year. I can't remember what its called. I actually have it but its in storage right now. I'll see if I can look it up for you. Also Susan Weeds book "Herbal for the Childbearing Year" has some great stuff in it.

[3_opihi]

Ahhh...found it. I have the first one, its pretty technical, but then homeopathy generally is. The second one looks like it might be good too.

Homeopathy books