OMG, OB friend trying to scare dh out of homebirth! LONG - Page 2

[AmyB]

I think you can just point to the passage where your friend describes what a hostile attitude hopitals have towards women like you and tell your dh, that's exactly why you don't want to go anywhere near the place. Even "Jane" says that as soon as you express your preferences you are going to get abuse, hostile treatment and a deliberate effort to undermine your desire for a normal birth. Why should you put yourself in that situation?

--AmyB

[Quirky]

Wish me luck....

....dh is going on a business trip today so I suggested that he take some reading materials along. I couldn't persuade him to take Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth (it's a short trip and a long book for someone who doesn't read very fast but I printed out the following for him:

Henci Goer on homebirth

Henci Goer debunking Pang study

Jill MacCorkle of ICAN debunking Pang study (Mothering article)

I'm glad I keep all my back issues of Mothering - the website doesn't have a printer-friendly format, and the article has a list of studies demonstrating the safety of homebirth.

DH is also going to be coming with me to my next midwife appointment on October 8, and I've already let her and her assistant know I need them to help persuade dh.

Now, I just have to find some free time to compose a long, well-referenced email to my OB "pal"....

[candiland]

Go, Quirky, go!!!!!

[candiland]

You can also appeal to his logical side by explaining the fact that the majority of interventions sometimes "needed" in the hospital -which carry risks - usually aren't needed at home.

This is due to the fact that our primal brain is in control of the birth process.

It is normal for the birth process to slow or stop when a woman enters a foreign environment. While her logical self is saying "OKay, let's birth this baby!" her primal brain perceives potential danger for mother and baby. It can slow or stop the birth process until the mother has time to flee. Watch any video on mammals birthing in the wild and you'll see what I mean This slowing or stopping of labor - which was highly beneficial for thousands of years - can pave the way for Pitocin and other labor augmenting drugs, which carry with them the possibility of fetal distress, the need for an epidural, etc. etc., which can all lead to unnecessary instrument or cesarean deliveries. ALL OF WHICH COULD BE AVOIDED BY STAYING AT HOME!!!

Most hospitals also have a time line one's body needs to follow. Hospitals are designed for the care of many mothers at once.... if they are really busy that day, the chances of a highly interventitive birth raise tremendously.

[Silliest]

Whoa!

I read that letter and felt my temperature go up, my face flush and my heart rate go through the roof!

If just *reading* that.... and it being about a *total stranger*... has that effect on me, I can't imagine what it must have done to you!

I'm another one who had a reluctant DH, nosy friends and family, and ultimately just put my foot down. I got to blame the PG hormones when I finally went off on him. The words are lost to history, but the general theme was something like:

*I* am having this baby at home, *you* know where the door is if you're not going to support me in this. You give me *any* more crap about it and I won't invite you to the birth. Got it? I may not even invite you to the family.

Will you, for ONE moment, please remember that I am NOT a moron, and I *DO* love your children *at least* as much as you do? Thank you.

You may *ask questions about what I want*, but you may not *question my judgement*. At all. I already *did* this your way and it damned near destroyed me. I am NOT going back.

(My first birth was a very "typical", and absolutely devastating hospital birth. I'm still putting my pieces back together 4 years later. In some ways I will never truly recover. I called it my birthrape before I ever saw that term online... anyway...)

I got my way.

We had a *beautiful* home waterbirth (and funny, my PTSD wasn't triggered this time! Imagine that.) and now he is such a *full on* homebirth and waterbirth advocate that I have to tell *him* when to back off so he doesn't alienate people!

But he didn't, couldn't, make the switch until *after* it happened. Up until the midwife smiled, said "It's over, everything is perfect, you can relax now" he was still at least 90% against it. He was stark raving terrified for us all, poor guy.

*After* she was born, it was only about 10 minutes before I was tucked up in bed, all cleaned up with her at my breast, and him snuggled in beside me. He looked at me and said in awe "It never got scary this time, did it?"

I did *not* say
"Well DUH! you thick-headed overprotective, testosterone-poisoned *idiot*, that's why I *did* it this way!" I just smiled and said quickly and nicely "That was the whole point, Honey. Isn't she gorgeous? Look she has your ears!" And that was it. The next time he opened his mouth he was Mr. super-homewaterbirth-dad!

Hey!
Maybe you can invite *her* to your birth and show her how it's done! <LOL!>
I invited a known medwife to observe at my HB, but she ended up on call that day :-p
She was *horrified* when she learned that I was having a HB when my house was literally 20 yards from the birthing center :-) So I told her she was welcome to come watch if she was concerned... as long as she understood that she was absolutely not "attending" me and my MW was okay with it. My MW was *highly* tickled by the idea and really looking forward to it, but it didn't work out :-p Oh well.


Hang in there!

[AmandaBL]

What a tough situation you're in! I hate it when I "know" I'm right, and someone who really matters to me disagrees!!! Everyone's given you such great advise, I only have one thing to add. My husband is no too into doing the research himself either. As I spend hours & hours doing it myself, he is content to trust what I tell him (& like you did, I regularly print out the "highlights" when he has a question or concern)

If your husband is REALLY concerned that homebirth is "dangerous" I think the only way for him to truly come to terms with it is to spend the time himself doing the research. I'd feel confident turning my DH loose on the internet with no guidance whatsoever to find his own homebirth info- It has been virtually impossible for me to locate ANY relevant info stating that attended, planned homebirth for a healthy woman is dangerous. If your husband is not willing to commit to researching out his own answer, he's going to HAVE to trust you - it's not exactly like you are TRYING to trick him into "letting" you do something dangerous. Does he think it would be safer for him to force is opinion on you, even though he has basically nothing factual behind it?

As far as your friends e-mail.... I would maybe tell her that although she feels she is helping, this is a very personal decision for ***your*** family, and she is adding stress to your relationship. Maybe if you went at it from that angle, instead of arguing the data with her, she could relate to you. She's wrong in all the above listed ways, but you're not going to convince her of that & you don't want to ruin the friendship for your husband. And really, the bottom line is, that weather she's an OB or a clerk, all her information was nothing more than opinion. If your husband is concerned about facts & safety, opinion has nothing to do with it. Good luck with everything - I hope your birth is everything you want it to be. 2

[candiland]

I also forgot to add that most, if not all, statistics that are out to prove homebirth is "dangerous" include premature home births, accidental home births, and those births of babies whose mothers received no prenatal care whatsoever. (Read: drug-addicted moms who refused all care.... docs and midwives alike).

Make sure that if and when he DOES come across research stating that home birth is risky, he looks for those clues. The research must state that the home births cited were the babies born to healthy, full term, low risk mothers. Ideally, the hospital comparison contains the same.

[aquarianangela]

it sounds like she was responding to a request from your dh for more info on homebirth safety? i'm not sure - or was she sending that email on her own initiative?
as an ob i can tell you she is responding the way she was trained- i am impressed she even took the time to look up any studies on hb at all. at least she admitted that in most cases hb would end up fine. i am not sure what would be any different about needing to transfer from home vs from a birth center- i would think transfer rates and reasons would be very similar.
the only thing i take issue with is that she comments on how upset she is you are doing this. since she doesn't know how much you have researched etc it saddens me that she sounds like she thinks you are off your rocker for considering this when you clearly are not and have really thought this out.
plenty of bad things happen no matter where you are, and people tend to blame themselves or their doctor or midwife even if there was nothing to be done to prevent it. and for our profession, sadly, i think all of the interventions can do more harm than good for a low risk birth.
i would consider videoing some of the birth and then asking her to watch it with you. iwouldn't ask her to observe it during the actual birth because 1. she may have liability concerns, if she was at a birth and something went wrong could she be sued even if she was just observing? 2. i think it would make you kinda tense!
just my 2 cents.

[Quirky]

I might have reacted to her email better had it been solicited...but it was not. When my dh told her dh we were planning a homebirth this time, they tackled him at ds' birthday picnic - she didn't even have the courtesy to talk to me directly. And the email was sent to dh, not to me. I think she could have had the courtesy to send it to me. I also think she could have researched a little more - it's not that difficult to find homebirth studies on PubMed.

I recognize where she's coming from in her training. Did I mention she also had a vacuum delivery with her first (after an induction for pre-eclampsia), a c-section for FTP with her second, and a planned c-section at 37 weeks that she had her partner do because she was tired of being pregnant? I think she's also coming from a POV that not only hasn't seen normal childbirth in practice, but also hasn't had one herself.

I definitely would not be inviting her to the birth, although I think the video is a great idea.

[Silliest]

Yeah, on second though I like the video idea *much* better, too! <LOL!>

I assumed your hubby had *asked* for her opinion. That he did not kinda changes my take on it, too.

I mean, I'm anti-circ, but I don't go around hounding my Jewish friends about it, and saying "I'm terribly concerned", ya know? It just ain't *cool*!

I guesss, with her training, professional experience and birth history, she really almost *has* to either be a total fruitbasket *or* confront her own very painful situation. Which would not be pretty. But it would be good for her in the long run (not to mention her patients!) if she got a clue or two.

If you want to go out of your way for her (and there must be *some* redeeming qualities to sustain a 15 year relationship, even if she *is* your DH's BF's DW) you might try having a look on Ebay for cheap copies of Henci Goer's Thinking Woman's guide to Childbirth, Naomi Wolfe's Misconceptions, or Ina May's Guide to Childbirth.
(or anything else you can find that fits the bill)

I have found that a *bound book* impresses many people far more than an internet printout even if the book is utter crap, and the printout is pure evidence! Silly, but I'm not gonna argue with a lever like that when I'm trying to move someone

(Just don't bid against me, okay? <LOL!>)

She 'spammed' you with unsolicited misinformation, I'd say it's only fair to spam her right back with information <LOL!>
(I'm not sure I'd actually bother if it was me, but I like to *think* I would!)

[jraohc]

Quirky - this is a few months old and has, presumably, been resolved, but inquiring (and new) minds want to know ...
- Did you ever talk to the OB "friend" again?
- Did you respond to her e-mail?
- Has your baby been born?
- Did your dh "consent" to a homebirth? (if yes, how did you finally convince him?)

[Quirky]

Thanks for thinking of me!

1) No, I haven't spoken to our "friend" since her email. My dh has spoken to her dh once, I think. Friend's dh said that friend was still worried about our going forward with a homebirth, but my dh said that's what our plan is.

2) I haven't responded IRL. I've written various emails in my head from time to time but none of them has made it onto the screen. I have a collection of research that I'm thinking about putting onto a CD and sending to her. (Along with all the info on why she shouldn't circ baby boys... .... hey, one good turn deserves another.)

3) Nope, newbaby is not due for another 10 weeks or so (I'm just about 31 weeks).

4) I think dh has come around to acceptance. I gave him a lot of research abstracts to read, which he did. I also gave him Thinking Woman's Guide, which he hasn't read. He also came to a midwife appointment with me for the specific purpose of asking all his "what if" questions. Whether he's just given in because he's tired of fighting about it, or he's actually at peace with the decision is hard to say. I really, really, really, really, really hope and pray everything goes well because if it doesn't I am not sure we'll be able to survive the "I told you so's."

[kavamamakava]

Originally Posted by Quirky

4) I think dh has come around to acceptance. I gave him a lot of research abstracts to read, which he did. I also gave him Thinking Woman's Guide, which he hasn't read. He also came to a midwife appointment with me for the specific purpose of asking all his "what if" questions. Whether he's just given in because he's tired of fighting about it, or he's actually at peace with the decision is hard to say. I really, really, really, really, really hope and pray everything goes well because if it doesn't I am not sure we'll be able to survive the "I told you so's."

That's how I did it. I didn't really feel like having to defending my choice of how I was going to birth my baby. So I just left it vague and open ended and asked him to bring up any concerns with the midwife and if she wasn't able to respond to them to his satisfaction, we could research together or find a different/better car provider. She knocked his socks off with a big huge stack of articles and research and talked his ear off about it. He then turned around and starting telling all his friends how much BETTER homebirthing is This was in South Texas too. hehe.

Now we're planning our third homebirth (2nd waterbirth). And I even had to transfer to the hospital after the birth of my first due to a bad tear and my second baby had to be driven to the NICU because of TTN. Amazingly enough , both were delivered by different midwives and both came with trained assistants and IV meds if needed and two oxygen tanks and all sorts of equipment in case of emergency. I bet they were better equipped than an ambulance would have been although we didn't need anything but the oxygen for my daughter in her car ride to the hospital.