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“christian Revisionism” -- Distorting The Historical Record For Religious Ends - Page 3

post #41 of 55
8/31/02 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 
Boysrus,

Wonderfully said
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post #42 of 55
8/31/02 at 11:08am
I agree....well said.

If one of my friends died tomorrow and they weren't "saved" and I had opportunities to share with them and I didn't..I would feel terrible and their would also be consquences for not following God's leading. Also..being a Christian often times and should make up who we are as people. Often we talk about our passions...that is part of our make up...well Christianity should be a passion to those of us who are Christians.
I am not saying that their are terrible ways to present what we call the truth..being pushy and over bearing is not a good thing..that will scare people away. Christ never pushed. I truely believe that he had a quiet and gentle spirit. Therefore he presented the truth meekly.....(not sissly(is that a word ) but gently)
post #43 of 55
8/31/02 at 2:35pm
Yammer, it is rude if you do it a rude way. If you are caring and sincere there shouldn't be any rude inflections. I know you don't see it that way. If is far ruder to let someone die and burn in hell because I failed at telling them about God. Now granted.....this is all only so if "my" religion is the ONE and true religion.

I don't really wish to debate this with you. You are just debating and not sincerely looking.....
post #44 of 55
8/31/02 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Yammer, it is rude if you do it a rude way.
How DO you say that without being rude? Personally, I've never heard anyone pull it off.


From my pov, I know people who are christian and I know where christian churches are. I'm pretty sure everyone in the U.S. can say the same. It would be impossible for me to be unaware of the christian version of the "truth." If I require more information, I know where to go, and I think everyone else does, too. Therefor it is completely unnecessary and remarkably pushy to go door to door as if I might have never heard of this thing. Jmo.

Namaste,

Pallas
post #45 of 55
9/1/02 at 12:36am
but pallas, if it were unnecessary, they wouldnt be doing it. Because, if it wasnt working and they werent getting converts by going door to door, they would consider it a waste of time.
I will tell you what, I grew up in the Catholic church. Every Sunday and holy day of Obligation for 18 years I listened to "church talk" and it had no effect on me. I lived my life for me and stopped attending all together. And then, 8 years later, my sister began speaking to me about the importance of a relationship with Jesus Christ. And she finally asked me if i had accpeted jesus as my savior. I said no, and on the spot, she led me through the prayer.
Yes, I knew where all the churches in town were, but I never would have gone into them. I just was not interested. But, hearing it all from someone I loved, that made me sit up and listen. I think God uses people in all sorts of ways and puts them where people need them to be: sometimes on their doorstep, sometimes in a church, sometimes on the television.

Just my pov
post #46 of 55
9/1/02 at 8:33pm
Well I suppose if it's not rude to tell someone they will burn in Christianity's hell, then it wouldn't be rude for me to say that according to my beliefs they are doomed to keep returning to mortal life until they get a clue, act out of true love and compassion and quit judging people based on which particular religion, if any, they belong to.

If "your" statement isn't rude than neither is mine.

Funny, I can't imagine saying such a rude thing to someone's face.

The defining difference for me is the one between Fact and Belief.

Christians have a Belief about the afterlife. I have a Belief about the afterlife. Neither one is a proven fact, and neither one should be used as a fear tactic to bully someone into changing their Beliefs.

I always like the town on fire analogy. Some of us have a different vantage point and can see the fire. It's not consuming the town at all, and we're joyously dancing around it.
post #47 of 55
9/1/02 at 9:40pm
I have no problem with someone else telling about their version of the truth. I strongly believe what I believe...no one can change that...to me..if you sense that their is some truth in it otherwise it wouldn't bother you so much.

Throw a stone into a pack of dogs and the one that yelps is the one that you hit.
post #48 of 55
9/1/02 at 10:10pm
No, it's not a matter of being bothered by something because I "sense ... truth in it".

It's a matter of hearing the same thing getting old.

It's a matter of hearing people who can't distinguish between fact and believe getting old.

It's a matter of seeing the hypocracy, in some cases, for what it is.

The last time someone came knocking on our door with their religion I advised that we are quite happy with our beliefs, then I offered him a glass of cold water for his child because it was a hot day. I think that was the last time, last summer.

Oh yeah, some JW's were hitting our neighborhood, Again, this summer when MIL and I were loading DD into the car and leaving. They wisely didn't waste their time or ours.
post #49 of 55
9/3/02 at 2:13pm
Ever heard the saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"? It doesn't really matter that your heart is in the right place or that you feel you have no choice because your Bible commands it. It's still rude, especially if done in the 'you're eternally damned if you don't believe what I believe" style.

The first time someone knocks on my door (or tries to hand me a pamphlet while I'm walking downtown, etc), I will politely refuse. The second time? Mama's gonna have a hard time being nice.

And, Meiri, I loved this: "I always like the town on fire analogy. Some of us have a different vantage point and can see the fire. It's not consuming the town at all, and we're joyously dancing around it."

Yup. Some of us are toasting marshmallows, too!
post #50 of 55
9/3/02 at 2:32pm
Meiri.....

Technically christians are supposed to lead a life coming from a truely loving and compassionate place, and they are not supposed to judge people for their beliefs or how they live...

That is how true christianity is supposed to be... That said... If they are coming from that pure place of heart and they are telling you something they believe in that same pureness are they being rude or wrong, or simply sharing from true love and compassion with no judgement in there soul....

Wouldn't you do the same thing for them if you could?
post #51 of 55
9/4/02 at 6:07pm
Pynki, I agree that that is where Christians are to be acting from, and that that is what true Christianity should be--compassion and love. And I've seen a few who do their best and do quite well in that regard, my mom and one of my aunts to name two.

But if someone doesn't share that particular world paradigm, how is it kind to say such things to them from yours? To me that smacks of fear tactics. Look what will happen to you, look what my book says will happen to you if you don't follow it.

For me, part of Respect is respecting that someone has a different world view and that my beliefs may be irrelevent to their world view. This goes both ways. If someone asks, answer their questions. If they don't, mind your own beliefs and let them mind theirs.

While I respect that the Bible contains a fair amount of wisdom, I do not define the world from it. Therefor, to tell me "the Bible says ........." is irrelevent to me as that is not the spiritual or factual source I draw from. To scare my children with such is ...words fail .... as that is not the view of Christianity I would have them have. Yet in my son's case, the "Christians" up the street gave that to him themselves.

If someone politely approaches me, I politely respond with "no thank-you, I am happy with my beliefs, glad you're happy with yours." My friends know what I am and what I am not. We respect each others' rights to our own consciences and beliefs. We live and let live. Amazingly enough our ethics and actions aren't all that different dispite the differences in belief and worldview. The one who suddenly discovered..., as it were(I wear rather distinctive jewelry and we saw each other twice/month and talked on the phone.....), removed herself as friend over a year ago.

As an aside: DH pointed out that my spin on the town fire analogy might look like happiness at others' misfortune. Not my intent, hope I had it clear. What I was aiming for was the idea that from another perspective the town isn't on fire or in the least bit of danger. It's only a lovely bonfire that we're dancing and toasting marshmallows around, thus no need for fear or flight.
post #52 of 55
9/5/02 at 7:39pm
Just for the record, there's a difference between a conversation between friends that arrives at the subject of spirituality, and seeking out strangers or mere acquaintances and pummelling them with unsolicited advice about their immortal soul. I think when we're talking about rudeness, we're thinking of the latter. I've had conversations about religion or spirituality with my friends and enjoyed it thoroughly -- but I still find it to be incredibly arrogant and intrusive to knock on my door, buttonhole me outside my grocery, or leaflet my car.

I was kind of afraid that both sides were losing sight of the specific behavior that causes offense, and we were in danger of degenerating into generalities, which is really fun to say. Try it! "degenerating into generalities!" I'm going to be working that phrase into a lot of conversations in the near future, I can tell you ...
post #53 of 55
9/5/02 at 10:48pm
just for the record..I don't go door to door or bombard people..that would be rude.
post #54 of 55
9/6/02 at 5:32am
Well, now, see ... there ya go. Common ground.

Love that!
post #55 of 55
9/6/02 at 12:18pm
Good points Pallas.
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