Jesus: God incarnate or separate entity - Page 2

[DiaperDiva]

After everyone's responses, I think I am coming to the conclusion that how we view God, or the trinity, doesn't really matter. And yes I think he is laughing at us(in a good way). You struck a nerve when you said "Figure if out", and I remembered this is GOD we're talking about and there are so many things our human minds could never 'figure out' about Him. Yet we continue to try to master the Master.

I think all of the answers above are correct in some way

[cobluegirl]

I believe the scripture to be the inherant word of God so I believe in the Trinity as all in one. Genesis talks about that in the first chapter. The word US is used...that would be plural.

[DiaperDiva]

And the word US, could be interpreted as more than one person. So it is not all black and white like I originally thought.

[Bekka]

DiaperDiva:

I'm going to jump on youngnhappy's bandwagon, b/c she and I believe the same. We believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, as two separate beings, with flesh and bones, perfected bodies. The Holy Spirit is a third being, does not currently have a body because that would conflict with his current calling--to touch our spirits directly.

Originally posted by DiaperDiva
Back to my original post, how do you explain this verse if you do not belive in the trinity(again just looking for more insight

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
and we beheld his glory,
...full of grace and truth."

I do not believe in the trinity as a single person--youngnhappy talked about Jesus as the God of the Old Testament. So we believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ had a "discussion" regarding the creation of the earth, where the Father said and then sent the Lord (Jesus) and the Lord did. Therefore, Jesus is Jehovah is God, and this is who this scripture is referring to when it says "And the Word became flesh". Previously in John it says:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." John 1:1-3

This describes the way that the Father is God (the Word was with God) and Jesus Christ the Son is God (the Word was God) and also Jesus was God because "all things were made by him".

Another example I like is at the baptism of Jesus Christ, each member of the Godhead was present: Jesus was present physically, God the Father was present as He said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased". And the Spirit descended in the form of a dove.

[DiaperDiva]

As you can see I am going back and forth, because their is scripture to support both, or all claims.

Take the following as examples that seem to support a non-trinity belief:

Ephesians 1:20

"...which He(God) exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand..."

There is another verse, and it is killing me that I cannot find it, about a conversation God had with Jesus and Satan. He asked who would be willing to go and teach us about God? Something like that. It was where Satan said he would(but he would force us to obey, and then accept all glory for himself) and Jesus would teach us and give all glory to God. Anyway, point being, God and Jesus had a conversation, could be interpreted as 2 (3 if ya count the loser) individuals.

PLEASE someone help me with this verse...

[DiaperDiva]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This clearly indicates that God=the Word.

[youngnhappymamma]

I guess I've always been very confused as to why so many people believe that God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are one being. All over in the bible you see Christ talking of his father, praying to his father on behalf of the people, pleading with his father in the Garden of Gethsemane, praying to his father on the cross, refering to God as his father, and our father (St. John 20:17) "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
The first chapter of the book of Hebrews expressly states that God is sending His son:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himslef purged our sins, sad down on the right hand of the Majesty on high......"
Jesus created the world, etc, at God's direction:
Ephesians 3:9
"....from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."
When Christ was hanging on the cross:
St. Luke 23:46
""And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, inot they hands I commend my spirit; .....
If God is some mystical, three-fold being, then how is it that we were created in His image and He is our Father?
In Genisis God is always saying "us" (1:26 "...let us make man in our image..." 3:22 "...man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..."
In Matthew 3:17 "this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased..."
Luke 1:32 "called the Son of the highest.." 3:22 "...Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove...."
John 8:18 "..Father that sent me beareth witness of me..." 14:28 "my Father is greater than I..." 17:21 "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

[DiaperDiva]

So which is it?????

Who knows?!

[youngnhappymamma]

God knows. Ask him.

[cobluegirl]

This is a difficult topic and I am sure has been debated throughout the centuries.

I believe that in the trinity, as God, the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit. Maybe he can be 3-in-1. I don' t know...to me it is a faith thing. I believe they are one and the same but yet different. I am sure we will never know for sure till we get to heaven and we can ask for ourselves.

[moondancer]

I wanted to reinterate coblue's point of in Genesis 1:26

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...'

...So God created man in is own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

(then my personal favorite....be fruitful and increase in number...)

So the US was already established b/c Jesus was with God from the beginning. And God is not only male but female, right? It says so right there female being created in his image with 'man' being the name of the species.

I take the Bible literally for the record so I don't think it's a made up book to explain a religion.

I think Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (the essence of God) entering in Mary and producing God through JESUS on earth. That is why Jesus refers to God as MY FATHER in heaven.

I do not believe that anyone of us can BE God. I actually think that is highly blasphemous. IMO.

I also believe that we are born having a body but we ARE souls. I do not believe you receive a "Spirit" until you are "spirit-filled' meaning the Holy Spirit. Until then you are dead--spiritually.

Lilyka--you with me on this, girl?

So much is mystery and so much is right under our noses if we only believe....as a child.

peace, moondancer who thinks this is a great topic for discussion

[cobluegirl]

Thank you Moondancer for put that so eloquently what I could just stumble over. That was my point exactly. I am totally with you on this one.

[LinsMom]

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
(who was? God was)
justified in the Spirit,
(who was? God was)
seen of angels,
(who was? God was)
preached unto the Gentiles,
(who was? God was)
believed on in the world,
(who was? God was)
received up into glory.
(who was? God was)

John 4 and verse 24:
God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

A spirit has neither flesh or bones.

[Drewsmom]

One other thing to think about and research Diaperdiva is the Nicean Creed. The doctrine of the trinity being one personage/God was decided on by several individuals debating this same argument.

[sha_lyn]

3 seperate but united "spirits"
God- the father
The holy spirit - the Goddess Sophia
Jesus- the Christ Child
Just as my family is one family it is made up of myself, my husband, our daughter and our son. The Holy family is one family or one "God" made up up 3 different beings.