She's making her fiance get circ'ed - Page 2

[Teensy]

From: www.convert.org

"5. CIRCUMCISION

The specific requirements for conversion and their order need to be discussed with a rabbi. One requirement for males who wish to be converted by an Orthodox or Conservative rabbi is circumcision, or brit milah. If a circumcision has already been performed, the Orthodox and Conservative movements require that a drop of blood be drawn as a symbolic circumcision. This ceremony is called Hatafat Dam Brit. The Reform and Reconstructionist movements generally do not require a circumcision as part of the conversion process."

I would hope that if a man is going to undergo a circumcision as part of a conversion, that he is doing it out of a strong and sincere religious belief, not just to make his finance happy.

[Arduinna]

Is he really considering converting? Orthodox Rabbis take conversion quite seriously and some will not accept conversion for marriage purposes.

I seriously doubt that this woman is Orthodox, if she was she wouldn't be dating and sleeping with a gentile for over 5 years.

I think he should run for his life while he can.

[mirlee]

As a Jew I am offended by this woman's insistence on her future partner to become circ'ed. As one poster already stated, if she was TRULY Orthodox, she wouldn't have dated him in the first place.

I am not religious, but I would never make a man undergo this procedure just to get married. I would have too much respect for him as a person and my partner to request this. I feel the status of his penis is his business.

[BelovedBird]

ITA with Ard.
The woman has issues.
This has nothing to do with judaism.

[ThomasL]

Speaking of resentment I read a testimony from a woman who made her fiance get circed before their marriage.Sex was wonderful for the both of them before the circumcision.After the circumcision the man suffered premature ejaculations everytime they had sex afterwards and nothing they tried seemed to work leaving him totally frustrated and her high and dry.He eventually told her he would never forgive her and they broke up.She lost the man she loved.She did eventually marry another guy who is intact but she carrys the guilt of ruining the life of her ex.

[Frankly Speaking]

I think I have read that same one. It was a very sad story.

I have a story that is IRL and a little more personal. My uncle had himself circumcised at the urgings of his GF at the age of 40. at first, everything seemed OK but after 2 years his exact words: "I can hump all night and never get my nut. It's the worst thing I've ever done." He was impotent by age 45 and the GF was outta there, leaving him to deal with it himself. He never had another GF and seemed to lose all interest in women and himself. This man was one who was known for his grooming and wardrobe and nice cars. When he died, he looked like a homeless person even though he had a large investment portfolio and could have dressed and lived well. Very sad!




Frank

[TiredX2]

I want to say this to them, but our mutual friend says she will cloak herself in, "I wish it didn't have to be this way, but my religion and family demand it." And how do I argue with that without implying that her religious requirement, and, by extension, her inferring that her religion is crap?

Well, you could start by asking when he is converting? If he rabbi will be involved w/his circ? Etc... Are they having a jewish wedding? I just have to assume it has occured to him that he needs to be going through this with religous guidance and I think he will get a different story than he currently is once he seeks out a rabbi.

[Benji'sMom]

If he's willing to do it, he deserves what he gets! I would never do that to my body for anyone else. Still, I thought the Jewish ceremony to circ grown converts only involved cutting the foreskin to make it bleed, but not cutting it off, not a full circ. If she's really making him do a full circ, she's wierd.

[BelovedBird]

Still, I thought the Jewish ceremony to circ grown converts only involved cutting the foreskin to make it bleed

Not quite.
A bris milah for a circumcised male is a "drop of blood". Drop of blood does not work if there is no prior circ.

[Acksiom]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

If he's willing to do it, he deserves what he gets!

Even if he doesn't really have the slightest idea what's involved or what the inherent consequences will be?

[Frankly Speaking]

The title of this thread has always bothered me. She is not making him get circumcised, she is blackmailing him.



Frank

[laralou]

I am moving this to Religious Studies since discussion of circing for religious reasons (no matter the age or the motivation behind it) isn't allowed in this forum.

[Benji'sMom]

"A bris milah for a circumcised male is a "drop of blood". Drop of blood does not work if there is no prior circ."
Well, I learned something new - I hadn't thought about converts who were already circ'd - DUH!

[ms. nearocean]

eghads ! and yet so well put. Why did that explaination truly sound like the mutilation
going on over in africa, or more? places. isn't that the same place where men with aids think having sex with virgins will cure them? i was never truly convinced of the innocence of "erotic" behavior, and gm rings with such a perverse charge to me. I'm shaking, now

[Meiri]

I would hope that the Rabbi who would be doing the bris, and helping him in the conversion process, would be upfront with him about the requirements and nonrequirements. I would expect any doctor to whom he goes for the circ would lay out all the risks and possible consequences. I can't help but hope he goes to a doc for this if he decides to go through with it.

I have little hope for a marriage based on such coersion however.

Any chance you could anonymously mail him some information?

[Tanibani]

Originally Posted by Meiri

Any chance you could anonymously mail him some information?

I wouldn't even be anonymous. I would mail this thread! Just so he could read the other side and other people have to say about it. Especially considering how HORRIBLe the consequences can be as per Frank & ThomasL's stories.

You have nothing to lose. They are/were acquaintances. You could really help him here and prevent a lot of pain for him.

So what if she "comes after you." yes, she'll be angry. Fine. That's her ego. Whatever. You are not trying to hurt them, you are trying to help. If she can't see that, that isn't your problem.