Does anyone else here just let sleep happen when it happens?

[wemoon]

I just don't understand these elaborate routines for bedtimes and naptimes? I've never done it. When my kids were babies, I would walk with them in the sling, but that is the only thing I spent my time and energy on.

My kids just sleep when the want/need too. I enforce quiet time at about 8-8:30, but that is it. They will just fall asleep. Sometimes in the middle of the living room floor. Is that bad? I really don't think it is. My kids as babies were difficult, I was tired, sometimes I didn't sleep much at all. I nursed all night long, my boobs felt like they were going to just fall off from all the nursing, and I felt half awake sometimes. But I just knew that it was a new baby and life goes on... live in the moment.

My kids have absolutely no sleep issues now. I've never dealt with nightmares, constant waking or any freaking out because it is bedtime. My kids willingly go to sleep. Granted they are in my bed at the ages of 3 and 5, but everyone just sleeps.

I just think that during the infant months and baby times, we all need to just focus on our children and their needs. Yes, moms have needs too, but we NEEDED children, we wanted them, we desired them... and now we are complaining????

These hard times DO pass, we just have to take life day by day. My kids were not perfect, sleep through the night 2 weeks, in a bed of their own- type kids. They kept me awake many times and I felt angry at moments.

I don't know the point of this post. I just don't get all these crazy things people do to get their kids to sleep. Why not just start a routine of laying down and going to sleep with your kids and somehow muddle through it? Like I said previously, my kids didn't always sleep great as babies, but I didn't do elaborate routines, I just went to bed. And laid in bed. And sometimes laid there awake, with a baby on my belly trying to nurse, but I made a point to never get up.... it just spelled major trouble in my mind.

Ok, I'm going to end and hope I don't get flamed. I'm hoping there are others that do things like me, I geuss I'm trying to find others who just don't make sleep an issue. Everyone needs sleep, everyone will sleep when sleep is needed.

[StephandOwen]

I am so glad to read this!!! My ds is 11 months and he goes to sleep when he wants to. On weekdays when we're the only ones home we play in the living room until I can tell he's tired then we lay down, he nurses, and sleeps there until I go to bed (and then I take him with me). He usually wakes a few times before I go to bed but a quick nursing session and he's back to sleep. On weekends its similar but in my bed, since he won't sleep in the living room with other people around. I had been having second thoughts about this lately, seeing a lot of people swear by routines, but am so thrilled to see I'm not the only one not enforcing strict bedtimes. It works for us

[Marsupialmom]

Everyone needs sleep, everyone will sleep when sleep is needed.

I will have to disagree with that comment. Some people/children will fight sleep. They get over tired, over stimulated, et and cannot get themselves to sleep.

Some of our babies had to fight medical conditions that interfer with sleep.

Some of fought PPD (insomnia).

Yes, moms have needs too, but we NEEDED children, we wanted them, we desired them... and now we are complaining????

Being sleep deprived is not easy. I am glad you are a better mom and didn't need sleep routines. But not all parents need this.

Also you totally ignore the child's personality. My first fought sleep until I wised up and realize I was asking to for to much sleep (he wasn't the average child) and that he needed a routine to function. He like and needs predictablity even at 10 years old. He thrives better with a pattern to his day. He is all around happier.

My second child has reflux. Predictablity helped (still does) manage her reflux. She has hearing loss (complication of a birth difference). When she was battling ear infection, hearing test, surgery, strangers proding her, odd sleep places, a pattern gave her the security SHE needed.

My last child worried me. She started walking at ten months. I remember she would grab my hand and walk me to the bed so she could nurse to sleep. But in reality that was the ROUTINE she decided was best for her that worked for the both of us.

Some of the people that are trying to get routines are trying to make their homes run more smooth. They are trying to have happier children and be happier adults for their children.

Some are trying to keep emotional conections to their spouce, for themselves and for their children.

[Beansmom]

My dd is only 7 1/2 mos. old, but we have no sleep "routine." In fact, she rarely takes naps. It would be nice if she had scheduled naptime, so I could get things done, but she just won't do it, so I have given up. She sleeps when she gets tired. She sometimes falls asleep in the car or in the sling, or like now she is asleep on my lap. But if I try to move her to a bed she wakes up and won't nap. I have tried napping with her on the bed and she just wants to play. I take her to bed with me when I go to bed and I nurse her right to sleep. She gets up when I do in the morning. I can't believe she gets so little sleep, but she must not require as much as some babies because she doesn't seem tired. When she gets to school age I will try to adjust the whole families routine, so we all go to bed earlier and get up earlier, but I don't see myself enforcing naptime or bedtimes. Maybe it depends on the child though. DD is very laid back and just goes with the flow of everything.

[Dechen]

Wemoon, if I could, I'd *love* to do it your way. My natural style is pretty loose. I don't care much for schedules and forcing things.

I have needed to be more routine, however, because my delightful chaos beastie needs it. She does not like to sleep, will keep herself up, and become a crying angry wreck. She has never "just fallen asleep" past the age of 2 weeks. (Steph, I've read how O will fall asleep in the living room and I drool).

Aine gets tired, then she gets overtired, and the screaming will start. She isn't happy when she's tired, but she will not sleep if she can help it. So we "help" her. We respect her timing - her bedtime is 9-10ish because that is when she falls asleep the best - but we also make an effort to encourage sleep.

In my fantasy world, we'd do it much more like Wemoon.

[InochiZo]

then she gets overtired, and the screaming will start. She isn't happy when she's tired, but she will not sleep if she can help it. So we "help" her. We respect her timing

My DS is the same way. He would not just fall asleep. He gets very upset. He doesn't have a regular nap schedule. He does seem to get sleepy at the same time every night and wake up around the same time every morning. Even though I work and DH brings DS in for 3 nursings, we try to honor his sleepy/cranky times. It would be nice if his naps were at regular times but he hasn't found times to be regular. Good thing my schedule can be flexible or he can take a bottle some times.

[littleaugustbaby]

I've always pretty much let DD fall asleep when she wants to. There have been times where I've been so sleep deprived that it was rough, but I'm glad that I did it. The only times that I've ever tried to "redirect" her sleep were the times when she had her days and nights completely mixed up. It took a lot of sleepless nights and a lot of work, but I encouraged her to stay awake during the day so that she could sleep at night. There were times when it was blindingly difficult, and if I didn't have the luxury of being a SAHM, or if I'd had more than one child to care for, I honestly don't know how I would have coped. But that was really my biggest challenge re: sleep, and I know that I'm very lucky and that my DD is easy and a good sleeper. I did what worked the best for us, but I know that it may not have worked for other babies.

As far as "routine" goes, I've never been able to keep up a routine for routine's sake, but when I think about it, yeah, I guess I do have some kind of routine, but it's loose, and DD doesn't really depend on it to fall asleep. It just is kind of the way we do things. In the evenings, we eat dinner, clean up the kitchen while DD plays, and then she gets her bath and pajamas, and goes to bed. But there are nights that we eat dinner early, or we skip her bath, or she stays up and plays, or we read an extra story, etc., and when that happens, it doesn't throw off our schedule at all. Her bedtime varies anywhere between 7:30 and 9:00, and she wakes up anywhere from 7am to 9am every morning. Sometimes she naps a lot during the day, and sometimes she takes a short nap (or two). There's so much variance from day to day. But, I do know people who swear by bedtime routines and say that they help so much.

[MarineWife]

I've never set up a schedule or a routine. He almost always fell asleep easy at the breast. Those rare times when he did not fall asleep while nursing but was fussy we would sit on the exercise ball and bounce with him. If he was sleepy then, he'd be out within a few minutes. My older ds used to just go and go until he crashed. He never just laid down and slowly drifted off to sleep. One second he'd be running around the house, the next minute he'd be face down and butt up wherever he happened to land. LOL

[Parker'smommy]

The running joke with me, especially when we see a child sleeping in a stroller or sling or whatever while out or when we see a friend's child fall asleep on the couch or floor OR even hear stories of kids falling asleep at the dinner table is "wow, that's what normal kids do when they get tired....they sleep!!!"

I totally get what you are saying Weemoon, and I agree. And I basically did that when ds was a newborn. I let him sleep when he was tired and didn't schedule anything or do any routine. Then something happened and all of a sudden I had this child that FOUGHT SLEEP!!!!!!!


For instance, if I let him, and this has happened on an odd night when something was going on that stopped us from going to sleep earlier, he will stay up ALL NIGHT LONG! THis kid has stayed up until past 1 am before......he will not just pass out from sheer exhaustion. He needs the sleep obviously - he is cranky, whiny, but will not just choose to sleep. I have to "parent him to sleep".

I don't think you can "force" a child to sleep. YOu just can't. If they don't want to, they won't. period. But you can do things to help them get ready for bed and go to sleep willingly- parenting them to sleep.I think Dr. Sears talks about this too in his books. That is what our routine is...helping him to get ready to sleep, because left to his own devices...he will not sleep. He will obviously need the sleep and be totally overtired and not sleep. He is just one of those people that doesn't listen to his body in terms of sleep.

I also got our routine and "bed time" by watching him closely and watching his cues and then went from there. It works out nicely for us though. We wash up, do pjs, stories, prayers, and then I usually nurse ds to sleep. Plain and simple. But without this routine, he just stays up!!!

I have no nightime plans for the new baby coming, I will follow his/her cues and let them sleep when tired. But if they are obviously tired and are having trouble falling asleep I will do what I need to do to help them reach the state of sleep -whether that's lying down with them, nursing them, rocking them, slinging them, whatever it takes to help them.

[StarMama]

Wemoon, perhaps I'm reading into things, but your post sounds a little... condensending towards moms who do routines.

I didn't have a routine for Orion until about a month ago. I HATE having one now. I'd rather just see we're tired, scoop us up, and go to bed. And if he would go to bed at night, instead of fighting so hard he goes to bed super late and therefore isn't tired the next night until 4 hours later than the night before, until we're sleeping from 8am-8pm I wouldn't have one either. In fact, I have no idea if the routine I'm doing is even helping. But I'm desperate. He HAS to start sleeping at night. I have to start voch rehab.

Why not just start a routine of laying down and going to sleep with your kids and somehow muddle through it?

And well, isn't that a routine of sorts? And that's what sounds so judgemental in your post (and perhaps because of our sleep drama going on I'm reading into it too. I admit that may be a possiblity). I tried that with Orion. Took him to bed when he/we/I was tired. He'd crawl around and play for HOURS, or scream and cry until I took him back into the living room. It didn't work. I couldn't handle him crawling everywhere on the bed that isn't on the floor, trying to bang the mirror over our bed, trying to spill over my water, ect when I was exhausted. (and no, there is no way we could put the bed on the floor, we have no room for our VERY big wooden bedstand).

I am SO jealous of you! I wish it would work for us. But it doesn't. *Sigh*

[wemoon]

I'm glad I didn't get a huge hanging I'm not trying to be judgmental as it is something that I don't like to see on the boards, because I could never know anyone elses situation.

I geuss I'm just talking about what goes on in my house, trying to find others that do it like me, and trying to understand why such elaborate routines are necessary for some families?

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, obviously all kids have different temperments, and I just have not had the experience of living with a child that won't go to sleep.

And I'm sorry to those who thought my OP was judgmental. I was totally rambling off the top of my head and didn't really think any of it made any sense! I'm glad to see there are others that can do sleep like we do in my house.

[savannah smiles]

I did a similar non-routine type of thing when my dd was younger. When she was a baby, she nursed to sleep and when she was a small toddler I cuddled her down. For whatever reason, around 27 months, cuddling her down didn't work any more. She just wouldn't go to sleep that way or it would take up to 2 hours for her to fall asleep amidst constant flopping around and whining. After a month or two of that, I decided something needed to change because bedtime was getting to be a negative experience so we introduced the typically "read a story, brush your teeth and go to bed routine" which really worked. At first. After 6 months of that routine working great, it no longer does so I'm trying to figure out what to do next.

So, in a nutshell, I've tried to be flexible and adapt to her nighttime needs of the moment even though I often feel at a loss when her needs change. She's one of those kids who gets hyper when she gets tired so I have to read her signals and do our "routine" before she gets too wound up.

Wemoon, it sounds like you have a great set-up in your home in terms of sleeping. I'm happy such a relaxed approach is working for you!

[fyrflymommy]

We've never had a bedtime routine and my dd is almost 3. We just go to bed when we're tired. We do have somewhat of a nap routine, though.

fyrfly

[HelloKitty]

We do have a routine with our youngest but I wouldn't so much call it a sleep routine as a bedtime routine - gets him wound down and knowing that it's almost time to go to sleep. He LOVES his routine, he takes his bath (every other night), gets his jammies on, gets a cup of milk and drinks it while we read a book, brushes his teeth and then goes around and turns out lights. He likes going through each step and knowing what is coming next.

But then we all sort of hang out until he gets tired and wants to nurse and go to sleep. We don't really have a set time to do the routine either - it sort of depends on the night and if he's napped that day and how long. I can tell when he's starting to get tired and so we start the routine then.

Kitty

[awnja]

Originally Posted by HelloKitty

But then we all sort of hang out until he gets tired and wants to nurse and go to sleep. We don't really have a set time to do the routine either - it sort of depends on the night and if he's napped that day and how long. I can tell when he's starting to get tired and so we start the routine then.

Yeah, that's us too. Its just a series of events that help us avoid that pre-bedtime crankyness. Otherwise she fusses because she's getting tired, I try to nurse her and she's not ready so then I feel like we're just struggling. DOING something with her is better for us both. And at the end of the day I'm not too creative (I've been trying to entertain her almost all day- just her and me all day) so regular activities help me just as much as her. After the "routine," even if slightly out of order, she just gets sleepy, rubs her eyes and eventually looks to nurse. I nurse her and she's out. Usually 8:30. She decides the exact time. Now getting her to STAY asleep is another issue, but she's only 5 mos.

julie

[rainbowmoon]

well ds is only 6mo but we do not use a routine or schedule of any kind. he sleeps when he's tired..usually he makes his own routine and has been a pretty good sleeper. he goes through phases though.

for intance yesterday he napped in the morning twice for an hour or more each then took another nap at around 8pm..then he got up from 10-1am to play. we pretty much just go with the flow so far

[MamaToLance]

It is much the same at our house, no routine to speak of. Most nights I have my little one (8 mos.) in jammies around 7, but that's not set in stone either, and he usually plays until I can tell he is tired then I nurse him on the sofa, he falls asleep in my lap, I'll watch some tv or sit and talk to DH, then we go to bed when we are ready. He'll sometimes wake before we go into bed, but usually gets right back to sleep in 15 or 20 minutes. I'm not one who has had to rely on routine to get him to sleep, but I can see how others might need to, I also have seen/heard other parents using a rigid routine and it is more about what the parents want/need than what the child needs, and I don't want or need anything but to have a happy baby, and my little one is perfectly happy just falling asleep when he's ready, so this works really well for all of us. Granted I do not have any other children to get to bed at this point, so I don't have to worry about multiple bedtimes, etc.

[eminer]

I think I sort of know what you're talking about. I also think I've done things more or less the way you have, and sometimes it included coming up with ways to help dd sleep, but it wasn't a formal plan tinged with desperation about sleep in general. I definitely didn't get "my kids and I are perfect re: sleep" from your post. I got that you dealt with the vicissitudes and it all turned out all right in the end, without top-down planning. Is that right?

Anyway, my interpretation of why these things are such an issue is that we live in a society seriously messed up in ways revealed by sleep. It seems to me like most adults around me (including me) have something that could be described as a sleep disorder. In my case, I just don't sleep at normal times, and I dread going to sleep. But for far more people, lightly awakening and then quickly going back to sleep -- something that should be easy, adaptively speaking -- is impossible. They wake up after a night of nursing completely exhausted. Most of us were taught, violently, to sleep alone in cribs, and seriously deprived of the physical contact we needed. So some people find it really hard to sleep without lots of personal space. Some people are very easily awakened by noises or movements, the kind they never got to experience in their quiet, darkened rooms, sectioned off from the rest of the family.

There are other structural problems. For example, when you have to get up, get your kid(s) to daycare, and be at work all day, then go home and do everything family-related and then have your only hope of "alone time" with your spouse be after the kids are asleep, you aren't going to get enough sleep. This cultural pattern creates a sense of pressure around sleep. And, in our society, babies almost never get the vicarious movement and energy discharge they need. (This is what bedtime routines involving swaying, rocking, walking, bouncing, massage, and the car make up for.) Seeing their distress creates a sense of anxiety to do something about sleep.

None of this requires that a top-down routine or sleep training be instituted, IMO. But others would disagree.

[MarineWife]

Erin, I found so much of what you said very interesting. I never thought about our society's issues around sleep in those terms but it makes sense. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with having a routine. I think the problem comes when parents impose completely arbitrary sleep times on children. Not all children need to go to bed at 7 pm and not all children can stay up until 10 pm, no matter how much their parents may try to force them to. If you recognize and follow your baby's cues about when they are tired and need to sleep, there's certainly nothing wrong with doing things to help them like reading stories quietly or rocking or nursing or whatever as long as it is not traumatic to the child.

[wemoon]

Wow Erin, what a great post! I agree. I wanted to post something about sleep disorders, but I wasn't really sure how to approach it. I used to have HUGE issues with anyone touching me while I was sleeping. Sleeping with my kids has me over that issue, I now love to cuddle and have my kids right next to me while sleeping. It took awhile, this only recently became what I love within the last year or so.