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Leaving my son inside alone for 5 min? - Page 2

post #21 of 113
Why not just wait until nap time? That's what I do when I have a cig. I'm not much of a smoker though. I don't smoke often and when I do, it's 1/2-1 a day of an organic american spirit cigarette.
(I had no idea smoking tobacco was against MDC's statement of purpose).
post #22 of 113
I guess every toddler is different---my first thought was that my 23 month old would throw a fit if I went outside without him. He would bang on the door or window and demand to join me on the porch. If it's naptime, and the bed he's in is safe, then I would feel okay going out to get the mail or talk to a neighbor on the porch for a few minutes, as long as he were in earshot and I could hear him when he awakens.
post #23 of 113
Just curious, what do you mamas do while you take a bath during the day? Do you wait until your husband is home, or do it while the child naps?

I have 4 children, and since my first one was 12 months old or so, I have left him, and now them, in a child safe room to play near the bathroom while I take a 10 minute bath or so. They are in earshot, and I think if she is right outside the door, the child could be in earshot (I guess it depends on your particular house). I'm surprised the OP's child doesn't see mom going out and wanting to go out with her.

This also makes me think about when I am washing dishes sometimes in the kitchen and the kids are playing upstairs-- I can't hear them. I don't think that I am being negligent. Same goes for when I am vacuuming, or down in the basement for a few minutes throwing some laundry in.
post #24 of 113
Quote:
what do you want us to say? what do you expect us to say?
Well, loving-my-babies, since you asked, I expected the replies to address the question asked by the OP. The question was: Do you think it is OK to leave a 22 month old inside a house for 5 minutes by himself? IMO, the reason she was leaving him alone was beside the point. Who cares if she was smoking, hanging up diapers, talking to a neighbor across a fence--it's all the same.

Most adults, especially smokers, know the risks involved. Snide comments and condescending remarks like these:

Quote:
Do you really want him growing up, going to a bar when he's old enough or to a party and thinking wow, it smells like Mom in here? I have this fight with my mother at least once a month, and she still doesn't get that she's NOT playing with my child if she stinks. I don't want her keeping him b/c I am terrified that her cigarettes will be more important. They are more important than her pregnant daughter, so why would she ditch them for a couple hours for my
Quote:
QUIT smoking and find something more fun to do with your son in those 5 minutes. That's 5 mins to read a book, dance a dance, play hide and seek, sing a song, share a drink, play peek a boo, walk to the park, learn a new word, etc.
do not, to my knowledge, help anyone overcome an addiction.

Quote:
(I had no idea smoking tobacco was against MDC's statement of purpose).
Me neither.

And finally, would have you directed her to MDC's mission statement if her post count had been 600 as opposed to 6?

Her sig shows a mama wearing a sling reading a book to her dc. I just felt a lot of snap judegements were made about her because she mentioned smoking in her post.
post #25 of 113
Quote:
Just curious, what do you mamas do while you take a bath during the day?
Normally, when I have a shower, my 15 month old hops in with me. If my husband is around, he watches her. We have a cupboard full of toys in the washroom, so she can keep herself busy while I wash myself, and then I bring her in and wash her. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving her in another room, as I wouldn't be able to hear her cry over the shower noise if she hurt herself or got scared.
post #26 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat4mel
Just curious, what do you mamas do while you take a bath during the day? Do you wait until your husband is home, or do it while the child naps?
When they were babies, I brought them in the bathroom with me. Now that they are older, I bring them in the shower with me. I don't often shower alone unless they are both asleep, in the bathroom with me, or being supervised by another adult.
post #27 of 113
Thank you, Lisa. I'm a new poster at MDC so I looked up the statement of purpose today. It did not mention smoking but it did mention something about treating people with respect. Hrmmm
post #28 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat4mel
Just curious, what do you mamas do while you take a bath during the day? Do you wait until your husband is home, or do it while the child naps?
Well...either I put him in the sling and he showers with me, or I do what I did today...he sat on the bathroom floor playing while I showered with the shower door open...I literally took under a minute (superfast washing! LOL!) and he was 6 inches away from me...no shower curtain or shower door blocking us...yep, the floor was wet, but I had to shower really quickly to go out to an appointment and didn't have time for him to be in the sling.
post #29 of 113

Are there no cc'ers out there??

Coming from a cc perspective I think we are not giving toddlers any credit for their sense of self-preservation. Granted, I probably would not go so far as the Yequanna in Jean Lieloff's book who let their babies play with knives, but I honestly don't see what the problem is with leaving an almost 2 year old for a few minutes, especially when the OP says she would be looking in on him from time to time.

And as for the smoking, I am not a smoker and I'm sure smokers and non-smokers alike agree that smoking is an extremely unhealthy habit. BUT it's an extremely *addictive* habit, too, from what I understand. I've heard people say it's more addictive than heroin. I think we are all being way too holier-than-thou about this. Kudos to those of you who were able to quit, but putting a guilt trip on someone is not going to help them quit. At least she does not want to be smoking around her kid. My in-laws smoked around their kids since birth, and my dh was a premie! But this whole discussion sounds so negative to me. It's like how so many smoking mothers won't even breastfeed because they're made to feel like they can't possibly be a part of the natural breastfeeding mom's club. We're making the OP feel like she can't possibly be of the MDC philosophy and also be a smoker. I beg to differ...

But back to the question at hand... It has been said that the more responsibility we, as parents, assume for insuring the welfare of our children, the less the child will assume for looking out for himself. We need to have some sort of faith here that we did not evolve as a species this far with a built-in habit of self-destruction. Sure, accidents can happen, but anyone who is familiar with cc philosophy knows that Westerners are so safety-obsessed, but we are also the most accident-prone. Is that any coincidence? Perhaps there's some truth to the idea that if you tell a kid enough times (explicitly or implicitly), "you're going to get hurt," that they start to think that's what's expected of them and, being the social creatures we all are, they comply and get hurt. I think we need to have a little more trust in them to look out for themselves. I do not feel doing so is being neglegient, but rather it is teaching them self-sufficiency, which should be our goal as parents. Of course you do this one small step at a time--you don't tell your toddler to mow the lawn and pay the bills. But each mom should know their child well enough to know how much responsibility they can handle at any particular age.

As for me, I regularly let my 2.5yo dd play on our fenced in porch while I nurse my 6 mo dd inside. We have a huge picture window that I can see my toddler through. Being that I live in a quiet, safe neighborhood with neighbors who have known me all my life, I even, on occassion have allowed my toddler to play in the back yard while I finish cooking dinner--our stove is right beside the back door, which I keep open and can see the entire yard. I have noticed my dd exhibits self-confidence, and because I trust her sense of self-preservation, she seems to, in turn, trust my judgement when it comes to the really crucial things, like staying off the road. Toddlers can't differentiate between an "important" rule and a not-so-important one. If we are telling our little ones they aren't even safe in their own homes, gee, that's pretty scary. How can they know when they really are safe? How can they know you really mean it's not safe on the road if you are constantly saying they aren't safe even in their own home? JMO....
post #30 of 113
Mum2Sarah...I agree that toddlers have self-preservation skills, but learning them from falling down the stairs or tripping and hitting his head on a table while I was outside smoking is not the way I want my toddler to learn those skills. As a parent, it's my job to make sure my toddler is safe. And, it is also my job to make sure that I am fully aware of what my child is doing. It takes 3 seconds for a toddler to swallow something and choke on something we never knew was there...a screw the toddler dug out of who knows where, the batteries the toddler took out of the remote we didn't know he could open, something stuck in the couch cushion, etc. etc. I take the same approach outside though...it's not that I don't trust my child. It's the rest of the world I need to look out for...my son will not be playing outside alone (I've lived in a town where a 14 year old was kidnapped and murdered. It was a quiet and safe neighborhood that happened to have a child predator driving through that day). My child will learn self confidence, and I encourage it. But I also make sure I watch him and know what he's doing at all times....
post #31 of 113
Quote:
falling down the stairs...while I was outside smoking
Quote:
It takes 3 seconds for a toddler to swallow something and choke on something we never knew was there...
I find an irony here. My dd has fallen down the stairs and hurt her head twice... Both times, I was standing *right* there. I know of a 3 year old who died from choking on her own vomit. Her dad was driving in the car with her and was minutes away from the hospital, and drove her straight there, but it was too late. You're right it does only take seconds for an accident to happen, which is exactly why the only person completely able to take care of a person is that person himself. We simply *cannot*always prevent accidents from happening, and I would argue that we make them *more* likely, not *less* likely by our hovering over our children in the name of safety.

But I guess what I really want to convey here is that safety is a relative term. And there is plenty of room for interpretation. As I ended with in my post, the cc idea of self-preservation is my opinion, my take on safety. If you feel you need to be present 24/7 in order for your child to be safe, that's completely up to you and your mothering instincts. I just don't feel it's appropriate to come down on other mothers who interpret safety in a different way. Of course we all want our children to be safe. No one wants something terrible, some freak accident to happen to their child. I realize that the OP did ask for our opinions on whether what she was doing is safe or not, but I guess what I thought would be more of a respectful answer would be, "well, that's something only you know for sure..."
post #32 of 113
Just so I can catch up...what's "cc"?
post #33 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mum2sarah
But I guess what I really want to convey here is that safety is a relative term. And there is plenty of room for interpretation.
True enough! I let my son cruise around a table without that cushion stuff, but I know a lot of other parents who have their tables all padded up (the table has no sharp corners though). I see what you're saying though...
post #34 of 113
Quote:
Just so I can catch up...what's "cc"?


re: bathing
May I dance a little jig of OT joy?!? I can now tell my kids it's Mommy's turn for the shower/tub and they will stand outside watching and then walk into their room next to the bathroom and play. WOOOHOOO Of course, for the past 2 years, I haven't bathed alone
post #35 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyb
Just so I can catch up...what's "cc"?
cc stands for "continuum concept" it's a style of parenting that, at least on the surface, resembles attachment parenting. Jean Leidloff is the author of a book called "The Continuum Concept" which documents her observations of a group of native South Americans called the Yequana. They live in a tribal society, and at the time of her visits with them, they were influenced extremely little by the outside world. Leidloff feels that such a way of life gives us a better understanding of how humans would have behaved in their originally evolved state before civilization made us all lose touch with our instincts through its many institutions, ideas, and "experts." Yequana babies are in continuous contact with their mothers and/or another caregiver (like AP babywearing), which Leidloff calls the "in-arms phase," which lasts until the baby begins to crawl. Upon crawling, the baby is always welcome back in mother's arms, but gradually starts making small excursions with his new mobility. They are first not far from mother, and then they venture off farther and farther as they get older. Leidloff noticed that there were relatively few accidents that occured even though toddlers were nowhere near as "supervised" as they tend to be in the West. Now there's a lot more to cc philosophy than what I've just described here, and I follow a lot of it, but I also tend to follow AP more on some things. But in a nutshell, cc basically says we, as humans, evolved into having certain expectations, a continuum of expectations, such as the expectation that we will breathe air, which is why in utero we develop lungs even though we encounter no air in the womb. Liedloff attempts to identify more subtle expectations that every baby is born with through observing humans living in a more natural setting. Being in arms is one, being social is another example. This is how our efforts at keeping our children safe can have a paradoxical effect. According to cc, since we are social creatures, we want to do what is expected of us. If it is suggested to us that we are accident prone without supervision, then we tend to want to follow that expectation, and thus, for better or worse, become accident prone.

It makes more sense if you read the book. I highly suggest it, even if you don't follow it, it gives you a neat perspective on things.... I guess what I am saying in not being able to prevent accidents with our children is that it is impossible to have your eyes on your toddler every second of every day. Sometimes you have to pee, sometimes you turn your head, sometimes if you have other little ones, your hands and eyes are occupied with a more helpless babe for a second. The only person who can honestly look out for your toddler *every* second is the toddler themselves, since they, by definition are with themselves every second. And since it does only take seconds for an accident to happen, it makes sense to teach the toddler to use their sense of self-preservation. No, I don't mean leaving them for extended periods of time, but showing them in small ways that what is expected of them is to *not* have accidents, perhaps they are more likely to follow suit....
post #36 of 113
Quote:
Just so I can catch up...what's "cc"?
The Continuum Concept. It's a book by Liedloff.
post #37 of 113
WOW!! I was trying to offer support to this mom as an ex-smoker. I know how hard it is to stop. I hope she knows that it was support given.

I cannot possibly watch my children 24/7. I make their enviroment as safe as possible.

I have left my children at early ages to run down stairs to do laundry. Depending on the place they were monitored. My basement is not child safe.

I think there is a balance here. I do think she can take her eye off her child for 5 minutes and still provide safety. She is not leaving her child unattended in the pool.
post #38 of 113
I think it depends on the child. I have a very cautious child and I have a fairly good idea of what he typically does. If I go to the basement to throw some laundry into the dryer, we have wood floors upstairs so I can hear him if he crawls (he smacks his hands) and usually he stays put. If I go outside to hang diapers on the line, I'll either take him with me or I'll put him in his crib and show him some fun toys that he likes and leave him while I go outside.

As a parent, even if he's in the same room with me, I'm not going to be watching him 100% of the time. I let him roam freely on whatever floor of the house we're in. Usually he stays quite close, but sometimes he'll wander back to the bedrooms. Usually the house is quiet and I can tell by sounds what he is doing.

Could I be more vigilant? I am sure I could. DS however is not a spirited child - he doesn't venture into new things unless I am near. There are the occasional exceptions, but I've also done a lot of childproofing so I don't have to be so vigilant even when I am right there.

Would you feel horrible if you were outside for a moment (even just taking the trash out) and something happened? Yes. At the same time, interrupting a toddler in the middle of something to take them downstairs with you to put the clothes in the dryer can also have its consequences (aka tantrum). You just have to follow your gut instinct on what will work best for your child at the stage they are at. Do you best...that's all anyone can ask.
post #39 of 113
Wow re: cc. I've heard of the book but never in any depth at all. I'll have to check it out.
I do see the point you're making about expectations. I have never reacted when my kids owied (unless they needed it) and I watched them both clamber down a rocky mountain yesterday on their bellies, digging their toes in, using their fingers, etc. I have always simply told them to "stop and think" in tough situations. They're 3 and 1.5 and it's just what they've always done; ie. climbing, being outdoors, thinking. So, I won't micromanage my kids which I think is the point I got from the CC post. But, it is an incredibly fine line and oh so situational. ok, I'll as I know many will disagree w/me.
post #40 of 113
Do you have a playpen you could put him in while you briefly go outside?
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