How could a Christian vote Democrat? - Page 2

[cherity]

My beliefs on many issues are so much more in line with the dems. such as with social programs, education, the environment, the war, downsizing large corporations that abuse and exploit workers, and so on.

One other big concern is the ever widening gap between the rich and the poor. I had read recently that the group of people that are falling into poverty is those who were once middle-class households, with at least one person working, with at least one person with a education higher than high school. That would be our family!

Both parties seem to be getting a little out of whack with such intense polarization.

I may just decide to look at the abortion issue outside of the government. It seems to be more of an election year issue anyway. Not sure if the republicans would be ready to support all those women and their children if abortion became illegal. Guess we need to focus more on helping women not get to a situation where they feel that abortion is their only option. That isn't fair either.

[Stayseeliz]

Originally Posted by cherity

Guess we need to focus more on helping women not get to a situation where they feel that abortion is their only option.

That's where I believe the focus should be..I'm not for the illegalization of abortion..It will just become more dangerous..We seriously need to rethink our "sex education" programs and really help kids understand the risks of sex at a young age..Sex ed is a joke in most schools..They need to understand what they're giving up and how they're putting themselves at risk by having sex so young..

[EFmom]

The Bible is very clear in Psalm 139 and other passages

Thanks for clarifying. Personally, what the Psalms or other characters in the Bible have to say about anything is not all that important to me. Jesus was silent on this issue. It seems to me that if abortion was a defining issue for Jesus, he wouldn't have been silent. He did discuss poverty and promoting peace, so that gets my attention. ITA that helping women avoid needing to consider an abortion is the ideal.

Glad you have your power back!

[canadiyank]

You know, I've read (but don't have the stats handy, so can't vouch for the veracity - it's just my memory, LOL), that married women are among the highest demographic who have abortions. It's a good thing to remember that it's not just teens having sex, but across many ages, financial situations, etc. I agree - we need to address the issues behind why people are having abortions...I don't think anybody really wants there to be MORE abortions, KWIM? That's why people are "pro-choice" not "pro-abortion." Personally I am pro-life, and yes, that includes the death penalty, etc. But as far as abortion, we have the highest per capita rate of abortions in the world - why? What can we do to address it? It's not just b/c it's legal (as some people would have you think) b/c there's plenty of other countries where abortion is legal - so we need to search out and address those underlying issues...and I think crisis pregnancy centers are one way, that's great. Changing sex ed? Maybe, but I doubt it - with teaching abstinence only we're expecting people to adhere to a "Christian world view" and unless they happen to be Christian and hold to "our" view of what that world view is, then abstinence is not going to seem very attractive or viable, KWIM?

Anyhoo, that was a bit off topic, but I wanted to say that while I am strongly pro-life, I consider other issues important as well - peace, the environment, social issues, health care, public education etc. etc. And I find myself more in line with the Dems as far as those issues...

[Stayseeliz]

I don't think abstinence IS a Christian view on sex..I think kids need to realize there is no such thing as safe sex. HPV can be contracted even while using condoms. And far too many women get hurt when relationships don't pan out like they thought. ANd they were emotionally involved because they'd had sex. I just wish girls would realize they're worth waiting for, you know?

And I know that sex ed isn't the "Answer"..One answer is helping people realize that abortion isn't always what it's cracked up to be. It's not always the "easy answer" it's proclaimed to be. We need to give them other options. That what I about crisis pregnancy centers. We're all about answers, baby!! Women need to see that they can have careers and babies..A baby isn't the end of your life..

And for what Jesus said..I guess I take Psalms *AS* being what Jesus said since He authorized the writings contained in Scripture..I also think an argument can be made for his gently peace loving nature and the way He treated kids..

Sorry to hijack the thread..

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by Stayseeliz

I don't think abstinence IS a Christian view on sex..

I agree with what you're saying regarding the emotional outcomes of sex and the possibly of contracting STDs even though wearing condoms - my point was that yes, abstinence IS a (one of many!) Christian view or ideal and is *IS* presented in schools and championed by certain religious leaders (say Dobson). It is *A* "Christian world view" - one of many. Why do you say you don't think it's a Christian view? I certainly see it that way - not the view of all Christians, but certainly of a vocal component.

There ARE Christians who promote abstinence-only education...my point was expecting everyone to follow one Christian world-view is impossible if it's not their world-view, SWIM? I disagree with your above quote - for many Christians abstinence IS part of their world view and they are actively promoting it. I agree with your point about the emotional outcomes etc., but am confused why you don't think abstience is a Christian view on sex? It's certainly the message I've heard over and over through the years...

FTR, I think abstinence is the best approach...but although it was all I heard growing up I did not remain abstinent. I *do* wish I had and will be honest when sharing with my children.

Ok, back on-topic. BTW, to the OP you gave me quite a jolt at the title of this thread. My blood was boiling for just a minute.

[Stayseeliz]

Let me clarify again..Abstinence *IS* a Christian ideal but certainly not an exclusively Christian worldview..I meant to say that abstinence is recognized as *THE ONLY* way to truly protect yourself from sexual harm (physical or emotional)..I even saw a condom commercial somewhere that stated as much "Abstinence before marriage and a monongamus (sp) relationship after marriage is the only way to protect yourself against unwanted disease etc"

I just meant we could promote abstinence to teens without making it Christian..KWIM? I don't think we give our kids enough credit in this day and age..We treat them like animals.."You shouldn't have sex, but since you can't control yourselves-Here's a condom!"

I just wish they'd tell the truth that there is no such thing as safe sex..They tout condoms as safe and kids get preggo, STD's and heart break left and right..Just makes me sad..

Our culture is so overly sexualized that "sex" is no longer considered a major, life changing event..

That's what I meant!

[EFmom]

I guess I take Psalms *AS* being what Jesus said since He authorized the writings contained in Scripture

Well, I guess I think this is a good example of how people's Christian faith can lead them to completely different outcomes. I most emphatically do not think that Jesus "authorized" scriptures. I don't believe the Bible is inerrant. I believe very much that God speaks to us through personal revelation.

To the OP, it is very difficult for me to understand how anyone who is Christian could vote Republican. Could you explain where your relatives are coming from? For most fundamentalists that I know, it boils down to abortion and nothing else. Is that what they are referring to?

As an aside, Bush is allegedly a "devout" Methodist. There is little in the rhetoric he spouts that is vaguely in line with the positions of the Methodist church, which I find fascinating.

[cherity]

Originally Posted by EFmom

To the OP, it is very difficult for me to understand how anyone who is Christian could vote Republican. Could you explain where your relatives are coming from? For most fundamentalists that I know, it boils down to abortion and nothing else. Is that what they are referring to?

As an aside, Bush is allegedly a "devout" Methodist. There is little in the rhetoric he spouts that is vaguely in line with the positions of the Methodist church, which I find fascinating.

Yes, the abortion issue and the gay marriage issue are the two main reasons that they would be voting for Bush. He 'says' he is Christian??? I don't know what to think exactly. Only time will tell on that one.

There are all sorts of unchristian things going on in politics and the world. How much can our government put laws on? Do we really think that would change the moral tone or just pull people further apart. Like many of you, I think that the church as well as the government needs to be sure that people's basic needs such as healthcare, education, right to live a respected life, clear water and air, healthy food, etc should be met before those ruling the land can ride on any moral highground.

I need to go to sleep.

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by Stayseeliz

Let me clarify again..Abstinence *IS* a Christian ideal but certainly not an exclusively Christian worldview..

Ahh...thanks for clarifying.

[Meiri]

I think it is absolutely NOT up to the government to be setting any kind of moral or religious tones. You cannot legislate morality. People will act according to their beliefs and that's how it should be in a free country in which the government is not allowed to make laws regarding religion.

I think politicians should act in moral and ethical ways, but again, it's not for them to make those decisions for ME. They control their own actions according to their beliefs, I control mine.

Remembering the Catholic Christian upbringing I had, the question were I still Christian would be "how can a Christian not vote Democrat?" The Christianity I was raised in taught that we are to help each other and look out for each other, not make as much money as possible to buy the most and be the most conspicuous consumer on the block. Nor was it that people were to be used for making profits then tossed aside when they hit retirement age or got injured on the job. Nor was it that the world was here for our Use and Abuse. Trashing Creation does not honor it, no matter how much profit one makes. Nor was it that it was our job as Christians to control other people's life decisions.

From what I have observed however, those are GOP values, at least of the ones in power in the party. I do know at least one Republican, and he says that most feel this way, who strongly disagrees with Bush's actions regarding the environment. I've yet to see that reflected in legislative active or platform however. I have to go by that, not by what I'm told a Silent "majority" in the party "really" think. If they think that, why have they handed the party over to those with whom they disagree?

[hotmamacita]

I have no problem voting democrat. I have and will again. However, I also have, at times, voted for a Republican. I think I just feel free to use my intellect and to trust my gut on voting decisions.

Its irks me that Faith and Politics in some churches are held so closely together. I think it is bunk. Being a Christian doesn't mean you are automatically in a political party.

I tend to lean towards a totally radical view of Politics that I rarely mention b/c Americans are hostile, on the whole, to that system.

So for now, while we live in this limited choice of policial structures I feel free to vote however I want.

[meco]

I am a Democrat.

I am a Christian.

I do what I think is right.

I think the sorry state of this nation needs a change.

And I think some Republican politicians hide behind their faith sometimes.

I am, however, not personally prochoice, but I think the choice should be out there for others. I would never consider it, but I am not everyone and everyone is not me.

[Meiri]

I have a question, slightly OT

And for what Jesus said..I guess I take Psalms *AS* being what Jesus said since He authorized the writings contained in Scripture

The Psalms are part of the OT, the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures. How can they possibly in any way be seen as what Jesus said?? They predate him by how many centuries???

[TiredX2]

I don't think Jesus would've voted pro-choice..And that is the party platform of democrats..

But Jesus probably *was* pro-choice. For first trimester abortions at least. As far as I know, within the Jewish faith at the beginning of the melinnium (and before & beyond) it was considered "okay" to abort until quickening (being able to feel the baby move, so in the 18 week time frame).

As for how a Christian could vote Democrat?

: IMO, Christians are not about coercing people to behave in morally correct ways, but supporting people & providing a community to grow

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by Meiri

The Psalms are part of the OT, the Tanakh, the Jewish Scriptures. How can they possibly in any way be seen as what Jesus said?? They predate him by how many centuries???

Many Christians believe that all of the Old and New Testament is inspired by God...since Jesus is God (as part of the Trinity), they were inspired by him, even if he didn't directly say or write it. Clear as mud I'm sure.

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by TiredX2

But Jesus probably *was* pro-choice. For first trimester abortions at least. As far as I know, within the Jewish faith at the beginning of the melinnium (and before & beyond) it was considered "okay" to abort until quickening (being able to feel the baby move, so in the 18 week time frame).

That's interesting! If that was common thinking at the time, I'm glad Mary didn't abort him. But I guess if you get visited by an angel and told you're carrying the Messiah that might help, too.

[Stayseeliz]

"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:17

Jesus also states in John that He and the Father are one..I can't remember the verse off the top of my head..

That's how I get that Jesus inspired Psalms..

[Meiri]

okay

I don't agree since it seems to me the Trinity didn't come about until the birth(or maybe conception), but then I'm not even Christian anymore and it's up to the people within a religion to define it for themselves.

Carry on

[Tata]

Hi all. The topic caught my interest as did the preceding discussions. I'm not a Christian, but I was raised Catholic and did twelve years in Catholic school, so I have bragging rights.
I think it is interesting to think of Jesus as a voter and linking politics and religion. I have some thoughts...
Before there were Protestants, there were Catholics. Before there were Catholics, there were believers. Before there were churches, there were groups of believers. Jesus talked of throwing the first stone if you had no sin. I think that if he were walking around in the flesh today, he may have said something to that effect about voting for politicians. Kind of like, 'vote for those who follow my words', or, 'if any among the candidates have followed my words, vote for them to lead you'. If that is the case, then none of the candidates qualify.