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Wow, I'm totally freaked out about Waldorf now... - Page 9  

post #161 of 214

Thank you octobersweethearts for hitting the nail on the head!

Quote:
Originally Posted by octobersweethearts
Totally not trying to start a debate here....but I don't get how not wanting the children to wear character clothes (ie Hello Kitty) and not watching television is elitist. It is a philosophy about childhood and parenting...how they don't want their children exposed to commercialism and media. Waldorf isn't saying "we don't accept you" or "you aren't good enough" it's that they have a policy on media and commercialism and ask that parents follow this. It isn't for everyone, but I don't think it is elitist on that basis.

I guess I don't understand how this is any different than say for example, AP. Is it elitist to co-sleep, cloth diaper, etc. and want to find other moms who practice your similar beliefs? Are we elitists because we frown upon those who CIO?
Waldorf schools ask for parental support of the culture. If the parents can't support it, why do they want to send their kids there anyway? When we started my son watched TV and before we started the teachers asked us if we could give it up. We said yes we would, they took our word and my son got in. We gave up the TV. I am sure if we said 'No way!' we love TV and can't live without it!, then they would have said 'I don't think Waldorf is for you.' Every year we have more children apply than there are spaces. Naturally those parents who are supportive of the culture are given priority.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that there are Waldorf snobs just as there are Montessori and other private school snobs. I just haven't seen them at our school. What I have seen, is a school that bends over backwards to support the family of the children with difficulities. They are often asked to have homelife that is supportive of Waldorf culture. Most comply because they see the benefit to their child.
post #162 of 214
i do think that you seem to have a very beautiful community, i don't doubt that. i guess the bottom line is that of course you have a right to choose that world for your children...
i guess i don't choose that because i disagree that if a child dosen't have a family that can/will comply to these rules, that they deserve to be cast out of my or my childrens lives. they don't make those decisions...they are just little kids. '
i hear that you guys are really putting yourselves out for "poor" families, that is also awesome. i get it that $$ goes. salaries at our school are 8000$ a year. thats what we all make. we have a ramshakle old building that is well loved, and beautiful in it's own way.. i also am not trying to suggest that everyone be like us.. i am just trying to put things into perspective. i just question what is really important in life for OURSELVES. this is just ME. i reiterate.
the word ELITISM defined:conciousness of or pride in belonging to a select of favored group.
as an AP mom, i do not look down upon the way other people do thing, just as i hope they won't look down upon me. we are all doing the best we can for our little guys, i trully beleive that.
post #163 of 214

Dear Dewlady

You are very fortunate to have found a school like you have. 25 years ago when our school started the teachers made similar salaries to your teachers. They taught for love alone and the parents gave everything to start and build the school because they wanted a Waldorf education for their children.

In a perfect world, I would be able to go to a Waldorf Public School and all children would be accepted because the school would have the resources to help all children. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening in my children's school years. Too many people who don't understand or like Waldorf, label us cultists, religious or worse. For us, it was a choice of choosing a pubic school that totally assaulted our values of simplicity, reverence for nature, recognizing that all humans have a spirit and that children should be allowed to be children and develop at their own pace or paying for a school where we found all of these elements and a supportive parent body to build the culture. In Seattle, there is one public school that comes close to this and their waiting list is a mile long. My big question is, why don't they replicate this school program in other neighborhoods? I willingly pay my taxes for public schools and vote for all levies, why can't I have the public school that I want for my kids?

Anyway Dewlady, I don't have any angst about what you have written. As you have stated, we are both choosing what we feel is best for our children. I would like to have more diversity at our school but we all have to choose the best of an imperfect situation.

Peace.
post #164 of 214
Rhonwyn...(and others),
i agree, no hard feelings, just exploring my own thoughts, actually it was a helpful dicussion. just feelin' love for all those little ones out there, regardless of who thier parents are...they deserve the world...they'll have the world...i just want it to be a peaceful, beautiful, gentle loving one for them all...especially since that is where my kiddos will be and i love them unceassingly. peace right back at you.
post #165 of 214
Sorry- I am new to this and still learning to use these boards- just wanted to comment on my (brief) Waldorf experience...
post #166 of 214
Sorry- I am new to this and still learning to use these boards- just wanted to comment on my (brief) Waldorf experience...
post #167 of 214

Sigh.

Not all schools are the same. My children have black and brown crayons available to them and they had them avalible in Kindergarten. Their teachers said 'How can we exclude those colors when we have children of those colors who need them to draw people like themselves?' This is paraphrased. Also, parents are allowed in my son's main lesson. Several parents help during the day because it is a large class.

I must say beautifulaltadena that your responses are rather trollish especially since this is a thread that has been dead for sometime. Makes me wonder why you bring it up?
post #168 of 214
Wow! A racially diverse Waldorf school! Where do you live? You can just say the general region if you are comfortable! That sounds awesome.... we chose a different school here in the greater Los Angeles area rather than the Waldorf school... even though we liked some of what we saw at the local Waldorf school we decided against it- due to weirdness we saw and weirdness we just heard rumors of from others. The Waldorf school here is more culturally diverse than some in SoCal but that ain't sayin' much-- it definitely DOES NOT reflect the demographics of the neighborhood in which it is located.
post #169 of 214
Sorry if you consider me trollish... this thread is on the first page of topics towards the very beginning of the posts on education outside the home. I am new to your forums and don't know about the etiquette of replying to "dead" threads etc. I will try to exercise more care in the future. As for my motives, having just been through an agonizing process choosing a school, and having visited three local Waldorf schools and heard secondhand stories about others, I suppose I am rather passionate about the subject. Excuse me if I have offended you in any way. I have deleted my comments about the black crayons and issue of rote imitation and memorization-- two "red flags" from our Waldorf visits. I am very sorry to upset you. I am sure that you are much like me, a loving and devoted mom trying to do the best for our kids in a very complicated and difficult society!
post #170 of 214
Hi there--just a clarifying point. A thread is never "dead" until a moderator pulls it or sends it to the pen for review. In fact, many times I will pull up an old thread if a member is asking for more info or repeating a question that already had a 6 page thread on the topic! If you haven't read the guidelines on the opening boards, they are pretty simple, and I encourage you to do so. However, I don't think you were in violation. This thread was clearly started for those who wanted to discuss some unhappinesses about Waldorf. When I read your post (I read all posts for Learning at School as mod) I didn't consider it trollish in context of the whole thread. If you had posted on a thread called "reasons why I love Waldorf" it would have been different. Does that make sense?

post #171 of 214

Sorry for jumping to conclusions beautifulaltadena.

Perhaps a better term than dead thread would be a dormant thread. The whole Waldorf thing had been pretty well thrashed out so I was surprised to see it surface again. As a Waldorf parent, I have a real problem with the Waldorf Critics site and the accusations they throw around. A person gets tired of being told they are in a cult. I don't see the same level of animosity toward Montessori, Catholic or other private schools but I may not be as sensitive to that. Being a Waldorf parent can be a constant struggle against the mainstream much like being an AP parent.

The school my children attend is in Seattle WA and it is not as racially diverse as I would like it to be but then again, Seattle has a pretty low African American population especially in the north end where the school is located. We do, however; have several African American children, several Hispanic children and a good population of Asians children in the school. Crayons and pencils of all colors are available to the children. My son regularly used a black crayon for rigging on his pirate ships he drew in Kindergarten. He also used brown and black to draw Martin Luther King Jr. for the January page of his calender he made this year.

Anyway, don't judge all Waldorf schools and Waldorf education by what you have seen in one or two other schools. We have 3 schools in the Seattle area, 2 I like and 1 I do not. Had that 1 been the only one in the area, we would probably be in public school now!

Again, I am sorry for jumping on you beautifulaltadena.
post #172 of 214
i'm surprised to see waldorf bashed so much on mdc. i don't know why, i just am...

rhonwyn and deborah, i am extremely impressed by your patience in answering these posts!

eta, i didn't realize this thread was so old i am very sorry to bring it back up...i had read through the whole thing and just felt like commenting.
post #173 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaley
i'm surprised to see waldorf bashed so much on mdc. i don't know why, i just am...

rhonwyn and deborah, i am extremely impressed by your patience in answering these posts!
Thanks for the compliment.

I really appreciate the way Mothering manages to combine a considerable degree of free speech with a high level of courtesy and consideration. It is a very tricky balance and one that I haven't experienced in any other online forum.


Nana
post #174 of 214
I have always felt so comforted by a waldorf atomosphere. I have met many teachers at womens groups and waldorf fairs. I have taken my todler to a group
and I loved the candle for story time, and the singing, and the crafts. I do agree that if you child is not used to that at home they will take longer to feel comfortable in that setting.
I am planning to beggin Waldorf Tescher Training so I will get the whole story
before my children are enrolled. We can't afford it anyway! I think on the whole most of the waldorf staff feel torn about the high tuition fees. But it cost a lot of money to run a school and pay the staff and insurance!
post #175 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by mother culture
I have always felt so comforted by a waldorf atomosphere. I have met many teachers at womens groups and waldorf fairs. I have taken my todler to a group
and I loved the candle for story time, and the singing, and the crafts. I do agree that if you child is not used to that at home they will take longer to feel comfortable in that setting.
I am planning to beggin Waldorf Tescher Training so I will get the whole story
before my children are enrolled. We can't afford it anyway! I think on the whole most of the waldorf staff feel torn about the high tuition fees. But it cost a lot of money to run a school and pay the staff and insurance!
Good luck on your training! The whole tuition thing makes me sad too. I wish I could pay for everyone who wants to attend Waldorf and can't. You do know, that most Waldorf teachers receive free tuition for their children as a part of their benefits?
post #176 of 214

Native American Family Leaves Waldorf

We tried Waldorf, but the more I read about Anthroposophy the more uncomfortable I felt with it. I am Native American, Ivy League-educated and my husband is the same. I grew up in the 1970's and watched my mom, a Navajo woman who grew up in a traditional matriarchal society, happily join the ERA movement and try to bring the rights that we take for granted in traditional Native American cultures to women in a America. I remember how she cried when the ERA bill died. My father, a Yankton Nakota Sioux (NOT a patriarchal tribe, as some would-be shamans would try to tell ya) supported my mother 100%. With this said, I come from a line of women accustomed to a certain respect and I am highly educated about my own traditions, both at home (I come from a line of medicine people) and in college (I studied Native American cultures in college and made documentaries up and down the Americas). BTW, I feel silly even having to give my qualifications, but the Waldorfian response had me so shaken. So, when I had questions about things I had read at the Waldorfcritics website (I was particularly concerned about parental complaints about the teaching of history, one African American mom saw her child copying pictures of Africans with paternalistic quotes beneath, negative Anthroposophic views on the art of filmmaking by a filmmaker mother, and another mother's experience with her daughter being corrected for mistakenly drawing a woman with black hair, it was changed to blonde.) I went to the administrator of my Waldorf school with pages of printouts that were heavily footnoted and marked passages from Steiner books demonstrating Aryan bias I had purchased from the school and he laughed at me to my face. He refused to even deign to look at the material and refused to answer my questions in a meaningful way. I was confused and bewildered, I was not expecting this reaction. When I spoke (tentatively) to other parents and teachers they were equally dismissive. They did not seem to care about these things because they enjoyed the overall effect of the Waldorf environment more than the truly troubling accusations against it. They chose not to do the research. My husband wondered why such freethinking individuals could not just disassociate themselves with Steiner and build their own school system that more accurately represents their ideals and wants and needs. I have to ask myself the same question. When I tried to speak to my daughter's teacher she simply looked scared and did not want to talk to me at all. It was such a different reaction than what my mother had received at my public school in the 1970's. The principal had listened to her concerns about the teaching of Native American history and had told her they would change it and they did. The teachers were completely supportive and totally welcomed her input. The strange silence and the closing of the doors on our family made me feel strange about the whole thing. I really made me think of the parameters of race relations in this country. It is subtle, but interesting. I took in San Francisco a class taught by Betitia Martinez (author of 500 Years of Chicana History) called Challenging White Supremacy and a bit part of it was getting white liberal activists to understand, truly, the parameters of their own priviledge being white. It was fascinating and continues to give me grounding and I believe made those activists more effective in the good work they do.
post #177 of 214
I am sorry you had such a bad experience Bahesmama. I can only speak about my own particular school and my own experiences.

Our school fairly regularly has Native Americans come to the school for blessings and presentations. The school has a multicultural committee that has seen that all classrooms have skintone pencils for the whole rainbow of humanity as well as books and pictures reflecting all of humanity. The school has tried to expand from the Northern European background of Waldorf to encompass all of humanity. This has been done very successfully at many Waldorf schools overseas.

I read about the black crayon thing on the waldorf critics site and asked my children's Kindergarten teacher about it. He said that his Kindergarten had black and brown crayons so that all of the children could draw people of different backgrounds and draw people that looked like themselves.

I hope that you find a school that works for you.
post #178 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mamajaza*
I know this lady who started a Waldorf school down in the states somewhere about 20 years ago, and now she doesn't like them. She told me that they are good for little girls who are all "fairy-like" and want to please everyone with their paintings and such, but it's definately not for every kid.
I haven't researched Waldorf much..... the little I know was enough to turn me off.

I think a Waldorf school can be just as limiting as a regular public/private school. Things like arts and music are seriously under-represented in traditional schools, but academics are seemingly forbidden in Waldorf schools.

Some kids LIKE academics. My oldest boy was begging to be taught to read at age four. He read the first Harry Potter book on his own, cover to cover, at age six. He loves numbers and knew all his multiplication tables up to the twelves by age seven. According to Waldorf philosophy, he wouldn't have been allowed to learn that. I think that's twisted; people should be able to learn about whatever interests them.
post #179 of 214
Thank you for your post Bahe.
post #180 of 214
jumping in here for the learning experience.
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