Sudbury education discussion - Page 6

[zeldabee]

Interesting blog, I will keep an eye on that.

Funny that you mention Summerhill, thisiswhatwedo, because I was telling someone about the Village Free School the other night, and she said, "Oh, that sounds just like the Summerhill school." So I'd intended to go look it up, and then you mentioned it.

[Lanie]

Originally Posted by cloudspinning

Hi all,
Just wanted to let everyone know about a new blog called Freedom to Learn, by Peter Gray. Here is a link:

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn

The subtitle is "The roles of play and curiosity as foundations for learning." One of the staff at the school my kids go to mentioned it. Aside from being a professor of psychology at Boston College, Peter Gray is the parent of a former Sudbury Valley student. I read the first entry and it seems like it will be interesting!

-cloudspinning

Thank you so much!!
I have a background in early childhood, and truly believe that children learn through play and the more I hear of unschooling/sudbury valley type schools the more it ties into what I firmly believe...why should it end with the early years? It's truly how people learn all their lives.

It also scares me how academics are pushed down earlier and earlier...people are not only stealing childhood but are stealing away the desire to learn and imagination too... I'll step off my soapbox, I could go on and on and on

I appreciate your sharing
thanks!

[Selesai]

I'm thinking about this type of education as well, though I will admit that it scares me. I don't have too much time to type, just wanted to throw my question out there.

Aren't there specific topics or subjects that everyone should have at least a rudimentary understanding of? Math? Anatomy? History (I know that's broad)?

[Arolinecay]

It IS scary. It's so very different from how most of us were raised and even if we find fault with our own schooling--it's just what everyone does, right? And it's weird and unsettling to do something sooooo different.

(But after so many experiences of librarians trying to bribe my kids to read with candy, zoo volunteers feeding my kids "answers" to questions about pollution so that my kids will feel good or smart, dopey adults everywhere stuck in ways of talking to kids...and so much more, i am sooooo ready for different.)

I come from a everyone-should-have-broad-exposure-to-different-subjects kind of background. I appreciate and believe in well-roundedness and those issues were the most dominant for me when I first started learning about this approach--I don't want my kid not to know certain important things, right?

But I think one has to ask the same of public and even private schools. Do children leave them well-rounded? Do they leave them with a love of knowledge and skills for continuing their education?

And then one can look at what subjects are covered. Why not African history? Balkans? Asia?

Math? I learned nothing. I was dumbfounded that my husband used pi (sorry, can't find the symbol) to figure out something he was building last year. Dumbfounded. "You can use that stuff?" I mean really, the things that really affect our times right now...does that stuff show up on the assessment tests?

And what is truly remembered from schooling? I love history and I can't really tell you what I remember from school. I remember Hannibel and the elephants over the mountains but just cause, how cool is that?

I'm just struck every time someone asks these questions of Sudbury, can the same be answered so confidently in the positive of regular schools?

And what are the basics for successfully navigating, shaping our lives? I think content can be had pretty easily if there is interest. And if you aren't a whiz in math (raising hand), there are calculators (and success when you are 25 of finally figuring out a way to count in your head) But maybe you know bugs way more than anyone else and no one ever told you you had to stop looking at the floor and keep your eyes on the teacher, who was talking about your assignment of finding words beginning with C at home tonight.

The kids at Sudbury schools blow me away. They look at you in the eye. They are comfortable in their skin. And if they want to become physicists, they can. They certainly can. I would not agree that they are less well-rounded than a regular school student who spent 3 weeks on the Renaissance and participated in a medieval fair where they served "mead." For example.

At any rate, it's very interesting to consider all this stuff.

[cloudspinning]

I really like everything Arolinecay wrote, but just wanted to add my .02!

Even someone who is really comfortable with Sudbury can have moments of "Oh no, is this the right thing to do???" I've talked about it with other parents of students at the school my dk go to, and we all agree that it is often scary. I believe the reason for that is trust. It is so hard to trust that your kids are going to figure things out, learn to read, to write, to do math, to live in the world, to be ok. I think that regular schooling can take a lot of that pressure off of you, because someone else is helping out with that stuff. Plus, if you send your kids to a Sudbury school, I can guarantee you will get tons of pressure from everyone (your family, friends, almost everyone you have explained the model to...).

It is hard to trust a little kid to know what is right for them--they seem so innocent and oblivious. They have random urges that they just...follow! It's a given in our society that this is not a good thing, that kids are evil (I swear, some people seem to think that!) or at the very least self-destructive. While I do agree that some urges need to be stopped (crossing the street anytime you feel like it, instead of looking for cars), most of the other ones are up for interpretation.

A kid at a Sudbury school is going to learn how to read and write and how to do math, simply because you need these skills to do all kinds of interesting things. My daughter learned to read so she could play video games without having to have someone else to read directions and character dialogue (and now she spends hours reading every day). Kids learn how to do math so they know how much they can spend on candy, or how to add/divide/subtract points in games, or to play cards. Some kids learn how to do those things because of much loftier reasons, but other kids just want to read Captain Underpants.

As for the other subjects, they aren't going to learn them all. Anatomy? Probably not, unless it sparks their interest beyond body parts (most people just figure those out from everyday use...a kid is crying because they hurt their tailbone, or they get an ear infection and the doctor explains the anatomy of the ear to them). History I would imagine would be more likely, simply because there are a lot of fascinating things that happened in the past. But their knowledge won't necessarily be complete. Maybe they will know a lot of the history of the Civil War, but not much about the French-Indian War (I went to both Catholic School and public school, and I don't remember anything about that one either, aside from the name...).

Again it is about trust, but also what you ultimately want for your kids. I personally don't think anyone is all that well-rounded, and I would prefer my kids to have had a chance to follow their passions and have the inner strength to do things on their own than to have a passing knowledge of a hundred subjects, 95 of which they associate with boredom.

-cloudspinning

[meemee]

to those of you whose children are going to sudbury all i can say is how lucky you are.

the one in my area is not the kind i would have liked my daughter to go. first it is v. small. second mostly it is filled with jaded expelled students. if there was a better sudbury school near me there is absolutely no doubt where my daughter would be going.

[Arolinecay]

beautifully said, cloudspinning. thanks for posting.

[thisiswhatwedo]

dem free school for us

well I wanted to thank you all for having this conversation. We will be on year two with my oldest and year one with my second at the dem. free school here in the twin cities. I am going to be doing some homeschooling with them, as some of the other parents choose to do and I think that it is because of my lack of trust that they will figure everything out but also I really want to make sure we have some options if we choose to leave. More than that I look forward to having that time with my kids. I will say that my third, like number two has to get through kindergarten before she can go to the free school as I just feel that she needs a bit more supervision. I am excited and hopeful that my kids remain enthusiastic learners and that much of the stress that we experience as a family due to us not getting with the public school program is eleviated. Certainly this last year was a blessing for my oldest to be out of mainstream education.

[jjsmommy02038]

We have an interview at SVS in Ma this Thursday. I am both scared and excited. My ds age 8 has severe anxiety and depression about public school. His doctors have suggested a move to SVS may be the answer. I know we can't go on the way we have. I just hope he likes it. He has such anxiety that he doesn't want to leave his current school because at least he knows it, even though he hates it! He broke down and cried that he might be lonley at a new school and not make friends. This is all so hard. Do very shy and anxious kids do well at SVS? Other than that it does seem like a perfect fit for ds.

[MommyPam]

Hi Ellen -

My daughter left public school at age 8, mostly because of severe anxiety, and enrolled at SVS. The kids were very nice to her, and she had a great time. There are many boys your son's age there, and I'm pretty sure he won't have trouble finding friends. It is a strange and difficult transition though, to go to a place where no one tells you what to do. Good luck!

[jjsmommy02038]

Thanks Pam. That makes me feel better. His Dr. said SVS can be very therapeutic for anxious, shy kids and they come into their own. But my son is so opposed to moving schools because of his anxiety but we are hoping for the best. He came home yesterday, his first day of school and said how much he hated it and cried, I feel so bad for him. I am excited about the interview tomorrow at SVS.

[thisiswhatwedo]

a new year at Dem free school

My oldest started at the local democratic free school due to anxiety and not being able to transition to middle school. This year my 1st grader will also go. He cannot handle the drudgery of public school and it went negative. Although it is an excellent choice for these type of kids I will say that our Dem/free school is a little picky. They don't want, as someone had said in a previous post; "jaded kids" being kicked out of the mainstream schools. They let them visit for a few days and then decide if they are a good fit. I've watched bored teens sit and text on their phones all day, they really aren't the right fit. Others may be shy but look around try things out and get busy. My oldest played drums all day for the first month until he was comfortable enough to start talking to other kids. Number two plays legos endlessly and recruits other kids to play games.
I will say that we are doing online classes at home as the kids at school are most focused on playing and socializing and I don't want to let go of academics--yet.
Regardless I will report that after my 13 year old didn't do any, I mean none, academics last year (7th grade) he just tested for online schooling beginning 9th grade for math and 11th grade for reading. They put him in 8th grade.
So maybe I should just trust the process...
we start back up on Monday