5 y.o. DD bored and resentful

[meowee]

Hi,

I thought I'd ask you brilliant mamas for some ideas to help me brainstorm a solution for my 5 y.o. DD. She can have a very sour attitude and be uncooperative. She frequently acts disastisfied, slumps around the house staring us all down disdainfully, constantly complaining and/ or asking for "stuff." We have a rule that she is not allowed to ask for toys she sees advertised, but she still manages to ask for "stuff" constantly. It's like she's on a constant mission to get something out of anyone. Well if you think this sounds a little like a teenager you're not the only one! This little girl is 5 going on 15 or 25.

She will beg beg beg for something, and then once she gets it, tosses it aside and says she never wanted it to begin with. For example: she begged us for a pet bird for over a year. Finally around her fifth birthday, we got a parakeet for her. A week later she started telling us to "get rid of it" becase she didn't want it anymore and didn't want to help clean the cage or feed it. Well lo and behold the cat ate the bird! Then she started in again begging us for another bird.

Her begging and demanding got so out of hand that we had to set down a rule that if she asks for more than twenty things in one day we go into lock down and she is only allowed to ask for food and love (hugs/ kisses etc.).

She is also the only one of my kids who lies at the drop of a hat and says "I hate you" to me. If I ask her to help me with anything, or if I say no to one of her requests for "stuff," she says that she hates me.

I was getting so fed up with this and she was trying my patience so much that I wanted very much to enroll her in school this year so that I could have a break from her, but DH adamently says "NO." I am having a hard time homeschooling her because no matter what approach I take, she is bored and resentful.

She likes three things: her brother, painting, and watching TV. She does not like to do phonics or math unless I catch her at exactly the right moment. I am taking it easy on her and am not expecting much academically, but I do want to have academic work a few times a week. She's capable of it. But it's not the academic stuff she's resenting-- she just doesn't seem to like me, or the whole set up we have here in our little homeschool family. She can be very mean to one of her sisters, so if I just "leave her to herself" for much of the day she will start digging into her sister and can be quite nasty to her.

Any ideas? Help, help!

[oldcrunchymom]

Here are some ideas based on what you said she likes. Take them or leave them as you see fit!

The asking-for-toys thing: I say let her ask away. Put some paper on the fridge and let her write down everything she wants on her list. That way she's getting in some writing practice and if she REALLY wants the stuff, she should have no objection to writing it down. If she can't write letters yet have her draw the things on the list as pictures. If she decides she doesn't want something she can then cross it off. Assuming you celebrate some winter holiday, you can tell her it's her "idea list" for the holiday and you will think about getting her something off the list if she still wants it in December. (I think that's fair if she actually writes the list and keeps up with it.) The catch is that she can't nag you verbally every time she sees something she wants--she must write it on the list and not mention it again if there's any chance of her getting it. Since it's there on the list for everyone to see, there should be no reason for her to go on nagging.

She likes her brother: Make or buy some type of game they would both enjoy playing. You can sneak in tons of reading, math, etc with board games. Since she likes to do art stuff she could even help you make it.

Watching TV: Get her some educational videos, either something she can watch herself or something you can all enjoy together.

[Wilhemina]

I think the above advice is right on track!

I will add this: ask her to be in charge of the family's evening activity on a specific day (or whatever fits in your schedule). She has to plan and organize something that presumably she will enjoy. Hard to sulk about something when you know you are in control.

Let us know how things progress, please. This maybe advice I need to tuck away for the future!

[Openskyheart]

My daughter used to get into the "I wants!" a lot (TV induced), and we started making lists. We explained to her that she could put everything she wanted on the list (when she was younger, like your daughter, I did most of the writing), and then when her birthday, or Christmas was close we could figure out which things on the list were the most important to her.

We explained that we could help her get *some* of the most important things on the list, but that we couldn't buy them all. We told her that if we did buy them all, we wouldn't have enough money left to buy food, and clothes, and pay for the house, etc. She seemed to get that. I think she really just needed her desires to be acknowledged and taken seriously.

Laura

[MsMoMpls]

I agree with letting the asking go. I'm all for freedom of speech. Asking aint getting.

The book Raising an Optimistic Child would fit for her.

Get her to focus on positives, even if you are leading her. Have her list three things she appreciates, things she can do well, things she enjoys, things she could do to make others happy, etc.

The biggest problem with the behavior you are talking about is that it puts her at risk for depression and poor relationships, not just making you crazy. She needs to work on enjoying the wonderful life that she has- and your job as a parent is to teach that. Good luck.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by lckrause

The asking-for-toys thing: I say let her ask away. Put some paper on the fridge and let her write down everything she wants on her list. That way she's getting in some writing practice and if she REALLY wants the stuff, she should have no objection to writing it down. If everyone to see, there should be no reason for her to go on nagging.

This is a good idea, but, we have tried the list thing.

She makes a list. Then she makes another list. Then she copies both lists over again. Then she brings you the lists and begs begs begs you to read it out loud to her. Then she will continue to ask for those things on the list. Wants to know if she will get everything on the list or just one thing. If you say, "Just one thing," she will say, "Why one thing," then more beg beg beg beg beg. This child has taken begging for "stuff" to a whole new level! She can even get you to say "Yes" when you mean "No." I don't know how she does it, but she can.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

I agree with letting the asking go. I'm all for freedom of speech. Asking aint getting.

I tried this. But she will ask for ten things in five minutes. It will be non-stop unless I flat out tell her to stop.

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

The biggest problem with the behavior you are talking about is that it puts her at risk for depression and poor relationships, not just making you crazy. She needs to work on enjoying the wonderful life that she has- and your job as a parent is to teach that. Good luck.

I know. I'm actually quite worried about her behavior, as well as annoyed by it. We constantly, constantly emphasize that she must appreciate what she has, that she must notice the beautiful things in life, that she must be kind to other human beings, especially her family. DH and I are not materialistic. She is not learning this from us.

[wonderfulmom]

She does sound like a teenager-in-training! How old are your other children?

[MsMoMpls]

I don't think she's materialistic, I think her brain is stuck. Just a little obsessive/compulsive, it sounds like. If this is interfering with life, you might consider seeing a therapist. Otherwise, just work extra hard on practicing your best ignoring skills and it will likely pass.

[Mom4tot]

We have been without a tv for months...and I think it is a great way to reduce the "gimme's". I also think she could be stuck...it sounds like she is also getting a lot of negative attention for her behavior. How to make the situation more neutral? I'm not sure.

Have you considered an allowance? I will post a very good book I read on the subject tom.

[Brenoi]

I will not say that this has stopped the gimmies in my house, but it has reduced it significantly. I would highly recommend getting her involved in service projects. She may seem very young, but there are ways that she can help. Perhaps she can make cards for the holiday food baskets - our town serves them on Thanksgiving and again at Christmas time - you can check with social services in your town. She could help you pick out a toy for the Toys for Tots program or put together a shoebox of goodies for Operation Christmas Child. Some organizations even have videos explaining why they are looking for donations. My kids, at ages 6 & 8, even went with us to build houses in KY. It really opened their eyes and their spirit not just to what others have / need but to the joy of service. I also would not be afraid to start talking about finances with her. . . Letting her know that you flat cannot afford it. You would be suprised. She may think as my children did that the bank just keeps giving you money. These are certainly not one day lessons but take a lifetime to instill.

You may also recommend that if she sees something she really wants and you cannot / don't want to buy it for her that she brainstorms some ideas to raise money - return bottles, have a lemonade sale, do extra chores. She may start to realize how valuable money is and that you aren't saying no to be mean. (You may also be able to sneak in many math, language arts lessons, public speaking etc.).

As for the I hate you's, my simple response has been, "I can understand that you feel that way, but I will always love you."

This is a little olden than your dd, but my 9 year old dd was having a gimmie attack the other day and I actually had her write an essay about why her behavior may be coming across as ungratefull for what she did have. I know this seems a bit extreme but it worked. We talked about ungratefullness - actually we looked it up in the dictionary. We talked about times that she has experienced it. Birthday parties are a prime time to see a grateful child happily accept gifts or an ungrateful child just throw them asside. Even my 9 year old recognized this and could see how that coorillated to her behaviors. We also scoped out a plan on how not to appear ungrateful because she knew that this was not how she wanted to be perceived. Unfortunately in this time of overabundance it is very hard to get kids to understand the high cost of all those items both financially and emotionally.

As for ideas to involve her and getting some school work done - cooking, pen pals, postcard exchange, reading time, legos, hikes, letterboxing, planning a friends get together from invitations to menues, playdough, set up an art gallery / art openinng for her work, jewelery making (patterns), computer games. Good luck

[meowee]

thanks everyone for your input!

She rarely watches commercial TV, mostly videos and PBS. We were TV free for a while but she so loves movies and TV shows (like Clifford) that I felt I was being too controlling and I let her start watching PBS and occasional movies again.

[littlest birds]

I would try to avoid negotiating. If she can expect you to say "just one thing" or whatever, she probably has seen that pushing for these things can be somewhat effective.

IMO a 5yo isn't mature enough to handle primary pet responsibilities for a bird. A pet like this shouldn't be spoken of as hers but as the family's and care would be handled almost entirely by parents. Only fun aspects of care (feeding yes--cleaning no) would be expected to appeal to such a young child--and probably only sometimes. So maybe this affected her grumpiness, I don't know.

I would tell her that mom cannot and will not listen to being asked for so many things. Maybe say that it mixes you up to hear so many things... Send the message that such behavior is useless and meaningless and stick with it. Buy no things she begs for and ignore it... if the asking then becomes a noisy irritation factor then explain that to be in the same space with other family members she cannot hurt everyone's ears. I would have a child that cannot respect the family in such a way leave the room until ready to do better (her choice to decide when she's ready). You may have to stand your ground a while before it sinks in that you mean it.

My dd age 10 has always been very similar in temperament to what you describe. We have struggled with homeschooling also because we clash with each other so much. (But dh could not veto public school when I'm the one who has to deal with the daily conflict.) She is an intense person--not at all what I expected of parenting a little girl--WOW! And she does not fit at all with many AP noninterventionist ideas.

My best guess would be that your dd craves stimulation and novelty. More outings might help, if possible. My children can get so cranky--some more than others--if we spend too much time at home. We have had so much of the mood you describe.

I would not do "phonics" or "math" in formal workbook way. Paint, and try oil pastels which are cleaner to use but still very rich in color. Try making cut-and-paste collages---maybe sort and categorize the pictures. I remember sorting pictures of animals into reptiles and fish and birds and other categories on big paper with dd at about that age. Paint birds--design a zoo--whatever... Learn about babies as a "science" activity. Tell the story of baby brother and his family (use dictation and write down what she says) and let her make a picture of him and her together. Or cut and paste pictures into a book for him and let her write one word below each picture and read/show it to him. Try beautiful painted or decorated abc's. Just talk about history and how people used to live differently, just to start giving the idea of then and now being different--in a year or so you might read Little House books and build on those ideas with stories. Read to her as much as you can manage, encourage her to read to her brother (even memorized baby books or whatever) and maybe get the tv out of your main space and have it non-negotiably turned off more if it is too big a presence. But look into fun educational videos, too. Our library has a lot of eyewitness and national geographic videos, sign language songs, etc. It's not my favorite media for learning, but it can be good to have a positive thing that she feels you will "count" as schooltime.

Just spilling out ideas--try something if you like it.... Sorry in advance if I misinterpreted anything or rambled too much here.

[nicholas_mom]

I read a great book...Your Child's Self-Esteem by Dorothy Briggs. It talks about all the stages of development and how to help.

When children are 5 yrs old, it NORMAL to be self-centered or materialistic..It is normal development. If the child cannot go thru this stage THEN as adults they become selfish and materialistic.

Ok, I realized that wasn't much help , but I haven't thouroughly read the chapter on childhood years because my ds is 17 months old. Atleast check out the book from the library to see if there are helpful hints.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by deeporgarten

I would try to avoid negotiating. If she can expect you to say "just one thing" or whatever, she probably has seen that pushing for these things can be somewhat effective.

What's amazing about her is that I do set very strict limits. Most of the time I simply have to lay down the law and say she cannot ask for anything except food and love. Yet she still finds ways to ask for things, while not actually asking.

Instead of, "I want a horse," it is:

"I really like horses. Mama, I really like horses. Isn't it sad that we can't have a horse? It's sad isn't it? Other people have horses, and we don't have horses. I think you would like a horse."

Originally Posted by deeporgarten

IMO a 5yo isn't mature enough to handle primary pet responsibilities for a bird. A pet like this shouldn't be spoken of as hers but as the family's and care would be handled almost entirely by parents. Only fun aspects of care (feeding yes--cleaning no) would be expected to appeal to such a young child--and probably only sometimes. So maybe this affected her grumpiness, I don't know.

I didn't expect her to do much. Sometimes to feed the bird, and to "help" me clean the cage. But she lost interest fast. "Get rid of it." This is just one of many examples, or her demanding/ begging/ pleading for something, and then tossing it aside not long after she gets it. The only thing she does not do this with is painting.

My other kids don't do this.

We rarely buy the kids toys. Only on birthdays and in December. Rarely, rarely in-between. The begging does not produce many results but she does it anyway.

And its been going on since she was three! She is also a non-stop talker. This has been ever since she started talking. She talks talks talks talks talks talks.

She is also compulsive about food. I am probably one of the most laid back mamas on all of MDC about food. My kids eat what they want when they want it. But she will eat, and ten minutes later dig through the fridge. Then ten minutes later dig through the fridge again. Then again. Even my DH notices this and tells her to stop, and he is a total mush who sets no limits.

Thank you mamas! I am desperate for ideas about how to be this girl's mama!!

[MsMoMpls]

When we get frustrated with our kids because they continue to ask for things and we know we haven't given in, it is usually time to step back and look at what she is getting. She isn't getting a horse. You don't say..."Oh, ok, I will get you a horse to stop you from whining." But she is getting something. Maybe just a fight, maybe just attention, maybe she gets to control the conversation. This is lots about temperment, lots about age, not much about stuff. And also a lot about feeling ineffective as a parent. Some of our kids are like kindergarten- be nice, hold hands, put things away. Some of our kids are like graduate degree programs. This one is your Ph.D. in parenting. You will look back and laugh some day... but not anytime soon.

[littlest birds]

She sounds like a high-energy, fast thinking, highly intelligent person to me. (The on-and-on talking about all the implications of getting the things she wants sounds like the way I talk when I consider ideas and explain things to people.)

The bird is probably just another "thing" in her mind and doesn't have the kind of importance adults would give it as a living being. Does she shift moods a lot? My dd and I are both like this. We are very hard to live with. Dd also has had a very hard time learning how her actions can affect others--she has never understood how she tends to invade people's space with agressively physical or thoughtless behavior.

Have you read "Raising Your Spririted Child?" Highly recommended--these behaviors may occur not so much because of what she gets out of it but because of innate tendencies. The book has a helpful, positive approach to "high-maintenance" children. And look for the spirited tribe on the finding-your-tribe board here--you might find some great support there, too.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

When we get frustrated with our kids because they continue to ask for things and we know we haven't given in, it is usually time to step back and look at what she is getting.

She is getting to torture me!

Could that be why she does it?

what about the fridge rummaging?

Thanks!

[MsMoMpls]

If she is torturing you (and she may be) then the only answer is not to let her see that she is torturing her. Maybe you should make a game of it- see how long she can talk about it, do it with her, encourage her, anything the other direction.

As for the fridge... don't lots of people open the fridge when they are bored, hoping that something interesting just appeared there? My husband does. Don't know about that other than bored. Maybe you should put those fake snakes that jump out in the crisper and give her something to look for.

[meowee]

Originally Posted by MsMoMpls

As for the fridge... don't lots of people open the fridge when they are bored, hoping that something interesting just appeared there? My husband does. Don't know about that other than bored. Maybe you should put those fake snakes that jump out in the crisper and give her something to look for.

thanks, MsMoMpls, that is a GREAT idea. I will start leaving her little presents (nice ones though) in the fridge.

I think I just had a revelation. When she is doing the begging thing, I think what she's really saying is: "I need to know that you love me, I need to know that you love me, I need to know that you love me."

Aha!



thanks MDC homeschooling mamas!