An Inappropriate Book? - Page 2

[Leatherette]

I don't like Babar because I don't think it is well-written or written for kids. I also think it's silly that Babar is king because he had money, clothes and a car (okay, I guess he's the only one with an education, too).

I don't see how CG is colonialism. He's a monkey, albeit a monkey who can ride a bike and smoke a pipe. His ways are not "African", they are monkey. And he remains a monkey who does not quite fit in to human society. That's why it's fun. Do kids want to be the man in the yellow hat? No. They want to be George. They identify with George. The book may SAY he's naughty, but it SHOWS that he is fun. An interesting children's lit discussion might compare him to Huck Finn.

I do think some are overthinking this, but you can have or not have any books you want. I personally choose not to have any religious books or books that mention God. And I do not see the value of nursery rhymes.

I don't think these books are going to have some sort of lasting effect on the kids, or make them colonialists. When I was really young, I was sent to Sunday School, and I am totally atheist. I listened to Suicidal Tendencies, and I am still here. Heck, I read Stephen King and Jackie Collins since about the age of 8, and I am neither ghoulish nor tarty.

I am interested in the "Should we burn Babar", but purely for intellectual amusement.
L.

[srain]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

I don't see how CG is colonialism.
....
I don't think these books are going to have some sort of lasting effect on the kids, or make them colonialists.

The biggest issue with Curious George for most folks is the first book, when the man with the yellow hat kidnaps him from the jungle and this is portrayed as okay.

I agree on the lack of lasting effects, but it's not fun for me to read some of the books, especially if I have to answer questions about them! There are so many other good books out there, I pick others instead.

[hipumpkins]

My freind has the first one and she was telling me how shocked she was to read about the kidnapping et all. WE only have CG rides a bike and it does teach you how to make a boat out of newspaper. In that book CG does live in the house with theMan with yellow hat...maybe he moved.

[Leatherette]

I know people who have trouble with George's "kidnapping" who have no problem with eating meat 4-5 times a week. That is something I will never understand.

I just think you can talk about whatever is dubious for you without "banning" the book.

George was put in the zoo at the end of the first book, but then he escapes, and I think, lives with the man in the yellow hat after that.

L.

[Viola]

A little T Isn't Curious George really an ape of some sort, perhaps a chimpanzee? I always change the word monkey to chimp. I guess because when I read it to dd, she wanted to know why he didn't have a tail if he was a monkey. We had told her that great apes don't have tails and she remembered that.

[lovnbnhome]

It's a story!! Seriously I think a lot of people over-analyze things and think kids are going to be harmed by what they hear/read/see! If they are going to be bothered by it, then let them and they'll learn their way. (I understand that this is hard and I do a lot of *hovering* myself) Protect if you want but let them enjoy a story with a monkey if you have it in the house.

Kids know the difference between true and not true (definitely by 2.5 they know that monkeys can't talk!) My ds loves the stories...he doesn't *get* all of it but I'm not worried. We don't pre-read our stories because we are *good* at talking about the situations as they come up-he does ask us questions about the stories we read-we aren't overly analytical with him-he is a child and some children at this age only understand the basics. We aren't going to bring up situations with him until he is older and if we see the need to.

Don't read it if you don't like it...but don't be surprised if your child brings it home from the library one day. It's a story! Stories are meant to entertain and be enjoyed.
my 2 cents

[phathui5]

My prime example is about spanking. I am amazed at how much spanking goes on in children's books!

I've never seen this in any of our books. Can you give examples?

[fiddledebi]

This topic seems to be going off in a great and interesting direction, which is more about censorship of ideas than about whether or not it's ok to steal a monkey from a jungle. I work for a nonprofit org that fights censorship every day, so I'm very big on letting DD hear/learn whatever is out there and then talk about it with us to decide how she feels. However, it's pretty important that these conversations are age appropriate and family appropriate.

We had an incident in our home earlier this year which tested my theories. I bought a book for DD called Souperchicken -- it was about a chicken who learned to read and figured out that all her "aunties" who were supposedly being taken on a vacation from their work laying eggs at the farm were ACTUALLY being taken to a soup factory. She uses her reading skills to rescue them, and some cows and pigs along the way, and they all go to live on a vegetarian's farm. I thought it was pretty cute and had started to read it to DD before my DH realized what it was really about. DD and I are vegetarians; DH is not. He was not comfortable with "teaching" her this lesson at the age of 2 and asked me to put the book away.

I thought about it for a day or so (and kept the book out of sight while I did) and decided to comply -- not because I disagreed with the lesson, and not because DH was right and I was wrong, but because we disagreed, and I thought that DD was too young to see her parents as opposed to each other, especially when it came to killing and eating animals -- something she'd never really come across. Not long afterward, her grandmother's dog died, and I was glad we hadn't yet discussed the fact that some people (like Daddy!) eat dead animals. We're just going to save all of this talk for when she's old enough not to see one idea as "wrong" and one idea as "right."

On the original topic of Curious George, we have one called Curious George Flies a Kite, which I think teaches a very bad lesson: that you can be really destructive (he pulls a hook out of a wall, steals a broom, steals a piece of cake, and uses it all as a fishing pole with bait), do dangerous things (he goes fishing by himself and falls in) and get rewarded (his friend dries him off and takes him to fly a kite). We still read it, but we editorialize. "Wow, CG should not have taken that hook! That wasn't nice!" "Oh no! Curious George, you shouldn't go fishing all alone! That's dangerous!" etc. I think that's one way to handle books with which you disagree. The key, I think, with toddlers, is that the parents should present a united front.

Just my two (ok, twelve or thirteen!) cents!

[luv my 2 sweeties]

We still read it, but we editorialize. "Wow, CG should not have taken that hook! That wasn't nice!" "Oh no! Curious George, you shouldn't go fishing all alone! That's dangerous!" etc.

That's how we read Curious George too. I avoid the first one, because I don't like the kidnapping theme, but most of the subsequent books aren't too bad. The kids love them. (There's gotta be something especially appealing about George given how popular he has remained with children over the generations.) Part of the appeal may be the predictable theme: 4 y.o. dd and I have gotten so we cast a meaningful look at each other when the Man with the yellow hat says, "I'm going out George. Stay out of trouble while I'm away." She knows that's the signal for the mischief to begin! :LOL We joke about how that silly man should know better than to leave George alone!

[srain]

Originally Posted by fiddledebi

This topic seems to be going off in a great and interesting direction, which is more about censorship of ideas than about whether or not it's ok to steal a monkey from a jungle. I work for a nonprofit org that fights censorship every day, so I'm very big on letting DD hear/learn whatever is out there and then talk about it with us to decide how she feels. However, it's pretty important that these conversations are age appropriate and family appropriate.

I don't consider it censorship to avoid reading certain books to non-readers. Just as I wouldn't show my 4-year-old horror movies, I attempt to avoid books that promote values that I don't like. We get them sometimes- as gifts or he picks them out at the library- and we talk about the issues when we read them, but I'm unlikely to agree to read them again if I didn't like it. When he's old enough to read and get his own library card, he'll be able to take out and enjoy whatever he wants!

[wildbozmommy]

I also agree with Leatherette. Sometimes a book that makes us feel uncomfortable is good for discussion purposes with our kids. I do think that your child should be somewhat older than 2.5 yo to appreciate the book, though. I would keep it away until she is a bit older. (like foobar said)

BTW, my boys loved the book when they were preschoolers and they haven't suffered any negative consequences because of it. They don't steal or smoke and are quite empathetic.