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UC Thread #10 - October 2004! - Page 3

post #41 of 126

childbirth classes

sprinkle pocket, here's my two cents on classes. I teach Bradley classes and agree with indigolilybear that a lot in that method depends on your teacher. But I think depending on how you and dh operate, classes can be great. Especially for 1st timers. There are so many positive things you can learn in the right class for both you and dh...what to expect in terms of the process, coping techniques, information about choices you have, etc. My suggestion is that you take a class after you have interviewed several teachers to see which is the right fit for you.

In my class, there is no mistake that I am a home birth junkie, but I still recognize the choice a family has made to have a hospital birth for instance. my job is to give them the info that will help them make good decisions in an especially "tricky" environment. when I have home birthers (no uc'ers yet!), i am so excited and happy to share the tips that I have learned through experience and my searches. And I stress that this process is normal, natural, and designed to happen without "intervention." So, I'm sure you can find a teacher in your area who supports your decision and will be a valuable resource and advocate.
post #42 of 126
Beautiful pictures mamas!!! Thank you so much for sharing.
post #43 of 126
ok, my turn for pics.....there are prolly a million in there

post #44 of 126

need some words of encouragement!

I haven't had the chance to be on these boards in the last month and I have lost touch with the other freebirthers here.
My "partner" just left for Montreal this weekend and I don't think he's coming back. I knew he was going on a trip but he hasn't spoken to me in two weeks and I think he's wimped out of really "breaking up" with me. I saw him briefly before he left and he said he needed to stay away from us, that people who are romantic and have sex cannot just be friends after, that he will come back when the baby comes ... it seems clear enough that he's decided to give up and leave me. Of course, I feel terrible. This changes a lot of plans. I cannot afford to rent the Aquadoula that he wanted because he was going to bring in "pure" water for the birth. I don't know if I can UC without my partner, I never imagined birthing on my own, with only my four year old. I only have one friend in this city and though she will be a good companion for ds, she wouldn't be a good birth partner for me. I have no family here either. I know I need to wait and see what happens but it's very frustrating. How can I visualize a birth when I don't even know who will be there? I know that having an unsupportive and unloving partner is not better than having none. I wanted this to be the most beautiful and sensual experience for both of us. I don't think he's running away from the baby, he does want this child too. And how can I let him back in after so many months? I don't want to deal with issues after the baby comes. Has anyone else here freebirthed completely alone? And I mean with no one even to call on if they needed support? I need some advice and there are no wiser wimmin than the ones on this board.
post #45 of 126
Thread Starter 
mama2lennon, I haven't been in your situation but just wanted to offer some hugs.

We are applying for state-sponsored medical care, since that would make having a midwife a bit more practical for us. DH and I are still unresolved on the issue. We are thinking that in the best-case scenario, we would be able to find a midwife who was willing to basically just be available by phone to answer questions during the birth, and then maybe show up afterward to check on things. We both think that it is pretty impractical to expect this. But we did need to apply for medical care anyway (DH is already covered by his work, it is just me that is not). Ironically, I don't think that having a UC-experienced mama, or even a midwife, available by phone is going to help DH much, since he believes they won't be able to tell him anything I wouldn't be able to tell him. The only real value is that he is worried I will go loopy at some point and not respond to him anymore (this kind of thing hasn't happened at either of my previous births, but I have to hand it to him, every birth is different and it *is* possible).

And this lying-to-the-relatives thing is getting REAL old, REAL fast. They ask questions more and more often (along the lines of 'what does your midwife say'?) even though they are unprompted - I am as healthy and complication/complaint-free as you can hope a pregnant woman will be. Lying outright really sucks and I'm sick of doing it. I could solve all that by getting a midwife and simply not calling until 'too late.' It is soooo tempting, especially since I was never planning on attempting to explain the whole UC concept to most of them, anyway. I feel like that would be hideously unfair to the midwife, though.

I am not so close to Pamamidwife that she is a real alternative, I don't think. I'm in Washington near the northern part of Tacoma, and even if she's right on the border (she lives in Oregon, right?), it is a pretty decent drive.

Amy, it sucks that your midwife is giving you so much trouble. At least she seems honest and I can kind of see her point - according to her ethics system, it would be unethical of her to purposefully miss a birth, but if you took that out of her hands, well, she isn't going to throw a fit. That's what I read into it, anyway. I'd go with your plan of just not calling until way late in labor.

About birth classes - with my first we faithfully trotted along to one. It sucked. We learned breathing, we learned 'pushing positions' (ha! What a joke! We learned one back-lying position and one side-lying one!), we were given the standard mainstream load-of-bull. I am sure this totally depends on the class - but we learned nothing useful. With our second I hadn't done any further research, but had thought about it and come to my own conclusion that positive visualization and working with my body was the way to go, and that labor was MUCH easier. And I mean, easier in a not-so-explained kind of way, not just in a the-second-is-easier kind of way. I really hit on something that worked well for me, which I think is the important thing. I do know that from what I've read in the "Birthing From Within" book some of those techniques may have worked, and that class would have helped the way the first one did not, but the point is, just going to the class would not have equiped me to deal with labor and childbirth. It was more a matter of figuring out where I was and what would work for me - and for me, it was visualization and actively *willing* my body to work for me, not attempting to short-circuit things by breathing certain ways or thinking certain things or focussing and certian things. Still, I think that the experience of my first birth was integral to my understanding, and if someone had told me about visualization, etc, before the first birth it wouldn't have made sense to me (this is just how I am, not how everyone is...) and I probably wouldn't have benefitted much from it. I didn't realize until after the birth how strongly I could fight my body, how huge a battle I would fight with myself (the uncontrollable physical half of me fighting to do what it must, the mental/controlled physical half fighting to escape). Nowhere did I learn how important it was to surrender to the physical, to the uncontrolled - all I learned was how to introduce a semblance of control to the matter, and it did nothing but harm.

OK, so I had a really bad experience, a bit of a childbirth-classes-gone-wrong experience, the kind of experience that drives less supported or less convicted women to flee towards interventions and drugs. I avoided the drugs and interventions, but it was because I was (ironically) educated enough to realize the truths about these. But my education is in the scientific and physical, in worlds that are tainted by the masochistic tendencies of their histories - the mind-body connection, the things I really needed to know, remained uncharted territory despite all the (mostly mainstream) reading and classes I took.
post #46 of 126
mama2lennon- I'm so sorry you are going through this! I have not had a freebirth but want to tell you your body knows how to birth this baby wether you are alone or not. you can do it!!! maybe you could find someone that you could call if you needed? (ie,mw,doula,friend) or do you want someone there to share the experience with you?

as for the pool can you find one of those cheapie kiddie ones? (I think they are under $20 and I've heard they are great)

we did birth classes at our birth center, though we dropped out near the end . they were classes combined with prenatals. I will definitly spend my $$ on something else next time like Hypnobirthing or extra bodywork.
post #47 of 126


Hi everyone! I've decided to de-lurk.

Hi Brandi. I think I remember you from the ttc boards, way back when. I haven't managed to conceive yet, but I do remember you.

I would like to introduce myself. I have a 27 mo dd, an angel miscarried in July, and am ttc #2. I plan to have a freebirth with #2. First I have to conceive...

I had a midwife-attended homebirth with my first. I planned a UC with my first, but ultimately decided I would not have the support I needed if I UCed. My dh would not have been able to be a hands-on support person after a certain point in the birth due to our religious beliefs, and my most crunchy friend was afraid of the idea of UC. As a first-time mom, I wasn't sure how I would react to the intensity of birth, and felt I really needed someone who could give me hands-on help should I need it. So I decided to go with a very nice midwife as my birth attendant.

The birth was wonderful. There were only a few small things about the experience that bother me, and even those only bother me in retrospect, as I analyze the birth. The feeling of the birth was perfect, and I didn't even tear! Very empowering.

Every birth is so different, but going on my first experience, I think I'll be the type to labor totally alone. I felt the most in control and peaceful when I was alone and doing what came to me instinctively. I hope I can have an even more amazing second pregnancy and birth though UP/UC.

Now I just have to get pregnant. I am open to any and all babydust donations! I hope I am welcome to join in as well, even though I am not preparing for a UC in the immediate future.
post #48 of 126
Yes, I remember you as Torie Good to see I won't be alone on the uc thread later on down the road! That makes I think three of us yet to conceive. Perhaps I will see you over on the ttc boards. I have yet to delurk over there. Still a bit timid, as we are taking things a bit slow and I have yet to have a post partem period. Still making quite a bit of milk even though I have ceased pumping and donating. My three year old is really enjoying the gift of the newborn milk. So not sure when fertility will return.

About classes- I took a class with my first through the hospital. It taught a variety of "methods". The one the instructor concentrated on was to think of purple clouds and breath. This did not help at all and continues to be a joke in our house. I think it would really depend on the instructor and their approach and views of the birthing process. I don't think someone who themselves has had painful traumatic or hindered birth could really portray a helpful was of experiencing birth. Or rather, as most seem to view it, "surviving birth". That is perhaps the problem. For my second and third births I found the most helpful thing was to read beautiful birth stories and watch peaceful birth videos to put myself in that mindset and sort of meditate that peaceful sense of well being and birth power.
Hope that makes sense, I am so tired this morning!!!
post #49 of 126
to you Brandi.
post #50 of 126
Mama2Lennon--just watned to send a Let's just say I had to consider if I would do it last pregnancy, though it didn't turn out to be necessary by the time the baby came. I thought and thought....and realized that though it would be SO much harder sans supportive team player w/as much invested in it as I had (aka DH), I had come so far w/my views of birth, that it would've been really really hard to birth w/a MW. I thought that I would *probably* have my sister come. Now as I said, I didn't have to fully consider this option so I am not sure that is what I would've done. TBH, I was pretty confident in the birthing part as it was my second freebirth. I guess my only (and always) advice is to look really really deep and see what you truly want. There is a book out called "I can do this" by Hygieia Halfmoon (she also wrote "primal mothering in a modern world") who did freebirth by herself (w/only her two older dd's to help). Very inspiring and might be right up your alley. But no matter what, we're here for you and know I am sending you the best! Please PM if you'd like to talk.

BinahYeteirah-- coming your way.
post #51 of 126
Hi everybody - just chiming in to say you all have beautiful children Thanks for sharing those great pics. It makes me soooo excited for the day when our little bean comes!
post #52 of 126
mama2lennon~ I hope you will have the birth that you want. How were you when you had your first child? Did you need constant support? Because you might feel the same way this time around. When I had my UC, I didn't want anyone around me. I called them into the bathroom ( I was in the tub), just as the baby's head was coming out. I think I could have done it totally alone, but that's just me. If you think you're going to have one huge baby you could need support.....

gotta go, poop patrol:LOL
post #53 of 126
thanks for the insights about childbirth classes. i live in a small town where there are only 2 midwives. i'm a bit nervous to talk to the midwives about if they have classes, esp. b/c i could see it only having a few mamas and everyone wanting to share--"so, who is your midwife, where are you going to birth?" one of the mw's had a prenatal yoga class, but there was only one mama, so that stopped. i'll call just to see what they say. i definitely have no interest in any hosp. class. dh is extremely gentle, but strong/actively supportive kind of man (when he's not all testosteroned up from using a chain saw all day :LOL)and always seems to have faith in my body's wisdom...so i feel good about him being there and being sufficient, well, sufficient when coupled with my abilities. i feel like i'm relying on myself 1st though, since i'm the one that's doing it and i'll be the one experiencing it. we definitely have strong convictions about our birth plans, and about our ability to continue to learn and grow together in the coming months. for the past 15 (?) yrs, except for dentistry, i've used no allopathy/conventional medicine, we treat ourselves and seek assistance from friends who use the same systems of healing when needed, and i think that has allowed me to develop a sense of self-reliance/trust/faith in nature when it comes to my body as well as the ability to look inside myself (as well as an increased distrust for md's). though i do get, rather fully, i think, that birth is a whole 'nother realm of feeling the body work and will be new and intense no matter what. i know some uc-ers (aquaintances) in abq, so i think i'm going to look them up when i'm up there next.

so, to continue the childbirth class idea, i ordered the twin uc dvd that blueviolet mentioned as soon as i read her post, and plan on order others and using them the way you did, mamajaza. (i think you and i have similar <virgo> ways of looking at the world/health, and i still love thinking of your birth story, not having read it since you birthed) what do any of you think of the birthing from within book to prepare for birthing?

indigolilybear~i'm down in silver city, are you still up in the 4 corners area? i remember you mentioning on the organic berry plant source question that you'd be going to calif. soon? (dh is interested in the renewable energy school in farmington since we're off-the-grid and it seems like a fine way to make a living in nm). i wish i could take a class from a uc-er! ahhh, that'd be soo great. i don't think i'd have the nerve to mention uc to a midwife/pg woman in this town. right now i'm telling people in town that specifically ask who i'm seeing that i'm seeing some folks in abq--which i am, but for energy work from friends, not mw's!

being in such a small town (wal-mart is our equivalent to a shopping mall), we do alot of preparing ahead of time and trying to foresee what we'll need, since it's mostly internet ordering when we're in town at the computers or waiting to buy things when in the big city. so i'm kind of wondering if anyone thinks the kangeroo care book is worthwhile. since we couldn't just go get it if we delivered early, i'm thinking of buying it ahead of time as a just in case and having it on hand. it's sounding more and more as i read, that nicu is an over-used part of the hosp. and lots of times it's not necessary, but a "just in case lets keep your baby in there for observation for a couple weeks".

mama2lennon~ my thoughts are with you as this unfolds.
post #54 of 126
Originally Posted by sprinkle pocket
i'm down in silver city, are you still up in the 4 corners area? i remember you mentioning on the organic berry plant source question that you'd be going to calif. soon? (dh is interested in the renewable energy school in farmington since we're off-the-grid and it seems like a fine way to make a living in nm).
Wow, small world - I grew up in Farmington. Went to college at NMSU. Boy, do I miss green chile!!
post #55 of 126
nothing like the smell of it roasting, is there?
post #56 of 126
Say, can I jump in here to get some opinions from some of you?
I'm pregnant with my 6th baby, and this is my scond UP. I'm about 21/22 weeks along, and have wanted nothing more in the last week than to just lay in bed and sleep and eat. I've pretty much been doing that, and my uterus has been growing quite a lot (which I'm thinking is the reason for my inactivity impulses, yk?).
Anyway, I have a bunch of sewing I have to do today (costumes for a play my kids are in - costuming & pictures are TOMORROW) that I have been putting off for a while, so I made myself get up today & get to work on them. After about 3 hours of sewing (mostly leaning over a table to do pinning & basting), I start getting these kicker BH's! Strong enough that I really want to go sit down or lay down while they're happening.
So I did go lay down. Ate something, drank some water, rested....and then decided to time. They've been about 10 min apart for about 2 hours, and don't seem to be going away. The baby is very active.

I'm thinking I could always check my cervix and see if I'm opening up.....but my impulses are telling me not to for some reason (I usually have no problem with feelin' around in there just for the heck of it, yk?). I have false unicorn root tincture, so I could always stop them if I wanted to.....but I'm not sure if I should do that, either. Again, impulses are saying no, and I'm not sure why.

So I guess I'm asking - what would you do? Anything I'm missing? And how the heck do I get these costumes done!?
post #57 of 126
Hi, I mostly lurk on the UC boards. DH is really not comfortable with the idea (he says that I can't bring back thousands of years of birthing wisdom by reading a few stories from strangers online, basically. Kinda irks me), so we have a mw, who is really cool about taking a backseat role in labour, and I keep telling myself it wouldn't be *so* bad if a snowstorm came up and the mw couldn't make it. I think I'm secretly hoping for that. I'm due Jan 19, so a snowstorm is certainly possible!
post #58 of 126
Mama2lennon- Im also in Guelph so if you think there is anything I can do to help give me a pm and Ill send you my number.
post #59 of 126
Hi everyone, I am back from giving my talk on unassisted birth. The experience was very different from what I expected (for one thing -- among many -- Rowan was pretty unhappy about the traveling and staying in strange places, and consequently I only got about four hours sleep before my talk!) But there was overall a very positive response, and it was a pretty incredible learning experience for me as well.

Anyway! I would like to respond to a few questions.

Rainbow moon wrote, "I read a birth story during my last pg where the mom labored for 4 days after her water broke at home before her UC.. how long is too long and when would a transfer be warranted? in case of fever only? what if you were also gbs+? how long could one safely stay at home before it would be a concern?"

Wellll, it's impossible to say that there is danger present after such-and-such a time and not before. But if I was GBS+ and had ROM and had introduced some means for the bacteria to reach the baby, I would want to get that baby out at least by the time that symptoms of illness would manifest. How long that is, I don't know. Anybody know this?

Niki wrote: "So I might need some help, guys - I am still struggling with a which-is-worse proposition - having a panic-stricken DH at the birth, or having a midwife. I want a UC, but I don't think I can do it without DH. I know that if I were to just pack him off to work while I was in labor and deliver while he was there, he'd be fine with that (he knows he'll panic at the event, it isn't the idea that scares him, it is the actual happening, if that makes any sense). I might have considered it if I had a good friend to be here for myself and my kids, but I don't."

That is a dilemma all right. I personally would not consider it to be safe to have anyone fearful at the birth, much less panic-stricken. So I'd throw out that option right off. Since you feel it essential to have a support person there, and don't have anyone else to do it, I'd try to find a midwife or doula who is comfortable with being involved in exactly the way you want.

I see you're in Washington... Pamamidwife might know where to get you started looking for such a person. I did meet some women at the midwifery conference that might be able to help you, but don't have their contact information.
post #60 of 126
Amy, sounds like your midwife is doing the passive-aggressive thing. Like she is trying to avoid overt conflict, but is still wanting to assert her own boundaries. And you are making the choice to involve her, despite knowing how *she* feels, so maybe she takes that as an indication that you are open to compromise. I bet it's frustrating for her too. I forget how far along you are -- is there any possibility of looking at other support people? I forget too, what is it you want her for?
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