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Need to vent about friend advocating CIO.

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
So I just need to vent a bit...I was at my monthly church women's breakfast on saturday, and a friend of mine (not at all AP, but still a friend) was advocating CIO and Ferber's books and how wonderful it was to another woman at the group (who does not have any children but whose sister has a toddler and infant twins, whom I believe are BF). Worse yet, my friends mother was there and was raving on about it too, and how wonderful the pediatrician was who told them to Ferberize. I spoke up that I could never do that, and she replied that with her first, it was awful (at FOUR WEEKS OLD) but when she knew how well it worked it was easy with her other three (although she waited until SIX WEEKS with her twins, 'cause they were smaller. She did try BF her twins, but stopped when the pediatrician told her she was too tired and it wasn't worth it!?!?) When I told her about how I really treasure nursing and rocking dd to sleep each night (at 16 months, that must have been a shock), she wrote it off as something I liked because I work outside the home (like if I were home all day I would be dying to get rid of my child each night! Furthermore, when she Ferberized her first child she was still on maternity leave from work, so how does my WOHM status factor in?)
I did mention to the woman who was looking for advice for her sister that I had had several people recommend books like "The No Cry Sleep Solution", and when I got home I emailed her links to this Forum, the Parenting Multiples Forum, and some Dr. Sears info (including a full-text article about how Ferberizing just teaches you to ignore your child's cues and is dangerous). She said she would pass them on to her sister, so hopefully I have intercepted one round of Ferberizing advice, but I was furioius, and still am. It is too late for my friend's kids in regard to Ferber, so I probably won't take the issue further with her, though I would really like to ask her not to recommend it in light of biological findings relating sleeping through the night and increased SIDS risk.
Thanks if you've read this far - I am just so disgusted and frustrated and though I hate telling someone "Hey, you made dangerous choices so you could get some sleep" I really would like to.
post #2 of 9
It is just so hard to hear stories like that. I wish we women didn't try to live up to some unrealistic expectations of how our babies are supposed to sleep...geez at four weeks I was still up for like 3 hours at a time dancing dd around the room after nursing while she fought sleep at 3 am. She didn't even know the difference between day and night!
I dont think Ferberizing would be so popular if new mama's and daddy's had all the support they needed to get some rest and not try to do it all. I can remember ordering my dh and dd out of our room at about 1 week pp out of desperation for sleep : . If our culture as a whole were more geared towards the needs of even the very newest members, you wouldn't see cio. I have found that people are either cio/ ferber supporters or they are not. I try not to tangle too much with my friends who are devoted to cio because they have made up their minds. I share what I do and why it works for us if I am asked, but it is hard to turn the decided back around. Sounds like you did the right thing by passing along good info though.

Enjoy that baby of yours!
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I am not about to try to change her mind, because I know she will interpret it as a direct insult on her parenting. There are also new and expectant mothers in our church, and I just try and give them my side of the issue without being too preachy. I also have to keep in mind that I trained as a scientist and have no problem questioning a clinician and have access to medical research that she doesn't. I am sure that in her mind, following the advice of a physician *is* the best thing to do.
I am just glad that there are understanding mamas here!
post #4 of 9
Even Dr. Ferber himself has said that his technique is not to be used on very small babies.
Grrr!
post #5 of 9
Yes, & after he retied, Ferber said he wished he had never written books on Ferberizing b/c it's unecessary and kids will be fine without it.

And 4 week old babies wake up HUNGRY, it's CERTENLY cruel to ignore them when they cry for hunger.
post #6 of 9
It kills me the most when its the church mama's that buy into cultural lies!!!!! I know that sounds really strong, but really! I go to church too and there don't seem to be a lot of AP mama's around. Because AP parenting works so very well for us I feel like it is inherently the 'christian' way to do things because it is so nurturing. Sigh, I don't like being preachy either but geez, who wants to hear their baby crying for them in the middle of the night when every one could be cuddled up together getting great rest. Okay...Im stepping off my soapbox now...
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
Well, I just couldn't keep my mouth shut - it was eating away at me and I was being unnecessarily rude to my friend regarding other matters. SO I sent her a note (because confrontation always makes my cry, and quite frankly, she intimidates me.
So this is what I sent:

Dear XXXX,
I realized that I am probably being unnecessarily curt with you regarding Sunday School concerns, and I apologize for that. Truthfully, there is something totally unrelated that is bothering me, which I have tried to lay aside but cannot seem to do. In attempting to ignore it it will probably continue to fester at me and I will reflect that by being, well, pissy. So I will get it off of my chest and hope that you understand.

Foremost, I want to say that parents must make their own parenting decisions based on what works best for their family, and that using Ferber’s method was at the advice of your physician. However, recent evidence suggests that sleep-training, especially at an early age, is physiologically dangerous. All infants are born with immature cardiopulmonary systems, and frequent waking is a biological way of rousing from apnea. Training infants to sleep for long stretches before they are physiologically mature enough to do so can be conducive to SIDS.

Dr. William Sears, MD on the topic:
Is it unrealistic for parents to expect their children to sleep through the night?
Yes. It is an unrealistic expectation that babies should be sleeping through the night when they are two or three months old.
How would you define a good night's sleep? Five hours? Eight hours? Twelve?
Medically speaking, many doctors define sleeping through the night as a five-hour stretch for babies. Biologically, babies are unable to go through the night for 10 hours straight. For safety's sake, a baby is wired to wake up easily. This is a survival mechanism. It is built in. If a baby experiences anything that threatens its well-being -- hunger, lack of warmth, breathing difficulties -- the baby will wake up easily. To train a baby to sleep too deeply, too soon -- while it might be convenient -- is risky. And I think it goes against what we know about the basic biology of babies.

Because of this, any time I hear a person suggest sleep-training methods, it makes me physically ill with fear. I feel very strongly that that it is dangerous, and cannot in good conscience hear it recommended and not speak up. I left Saturday morning wishing I had been more adamant about my feelings, but didn’t want to “cause a scene”. I did email some alternative suggestions to Rebekah in regard to her sister, and had hoped that it would settle my distress. It did not, and it would be wrong of me to not explain to you where I am coming from. I absolutely hate confrontation, and it is a delicate topic because people often take it as an assault on their parenting decisions, which it is truly not. The thought of “Cry-it-out” being recommended to other people very much upsets me, so I felt that I must talk to you about it.
Again, I am in no way trying to be judgmental or insult you or your decisions, but I really needed to let you know my complete stance on the topic.


What do you think, too much?

Angela
post #8 of 9
I think it was a good letter. You may still find that she becomes offended, but I think you will feel better having discussed it, and that gives you an opportunity to be organized about it. If you haven't sent it yet, maybe add that you would love to talk to her in person about it if she wants, so any misunderstandings of the letter could be resolved.

I like the "sandwich" technique too, to start and end on a positive note.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 

My friend's reply

This was her reply:
"Parents need to make their own decisions for their own kids. I think it's great you offered Rebekah some alternatives for her sister. Her sister will make the best choice she can for her kids. I have no regrets about any decisions I made as I'm sure you have no regrets about what you do. By offering my opinion I do not mean to imply that your way is less effective parenting method - it's one way in a field of many ways. If I offended you I apologize."

Kind of ambiguous, and it makes me doubt that she'll stop recommending it, but at least I gave it a try. (And I'm keeping the letter I sent her to use when I encounter a similar situation in the future!)
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