helping a spanker to stop-need ideas

[sincitymama]

Hey all,
I'm hoping to start a good thread here with lots of ideas for alternatives to spanking. A friend of mine has been coming to this site lately, she said she lurked a little on this forum but could only find lots of ranting against spankers and the like. She said to me 'well it's clear people here don't want others to spank, but where are the ideas? What the heck else am I supposed to do instead?'
My babe is only 10m so I'm not great for advice for her on this one, we just use lots of redirection for safety/mama sanity issues so far. However, since she was afraid to start a thread for fear of flames I'm doing it for her. Spanking is the only discipline she knows, so she uses it with her oldest (almost 3yrs) and has a younger babe also (7m). She doesn't spank the baby! Wanted to edit and make that clear.

So can we make this a place for ideas? Links? Reformed spankers, maybe tell us why you decided to stop spanking and how you managed it? How do you keep it up on those extra hard days? From everyone, specific situations that came up with your child and creative ways you dealt with them?

I think she's not even sure she wants to stop at all, but she definitly won't want to without alternatives.

Thanks everyone!
-Sarah

[chfriend]

Has your friend taken a look at the recommended books sticky at the top of the forum? That can be a wonderful place to start to get ideas about effective discipline.

What is she concerned will happen if she stops hitting her children? What other ways of communicating with them has she tried up to now?

The folks here have great ideas!

[sincitymama]

I'm not sure if she's checked out the book list yet, but I do intend to point it out to her.

I think the thing is, she's never known any different. She was spanked, everyone she knew was spanked, the other parents she knows now spank, in her family it's still the accepted form of discipline so no help there, etc... all around. I'm trying to help because she seems to be showing some interest in alternatives, but it's so far outside her scope that it's overwhelming, y/k? Maybe just some personal opinions will help, let me ask some more direct questions.

Why did you decide to stop spanking/never spank? How do you stop that urge/instinct to hit, especially if you were spanked as a kid or used to spank but stopped? What did you start doing instead? That one's tricky because it can depend so much on the situation and age/temperment of the child so examples are very welcome. Aside from the books on the list, where do you turn when you need reassurance about what you're doing? Especially if your family is close by and disagrees with not using physical punishment. That was poorly phrased, I'm sorry.

As for what else she does, I know she does use other, gentler methods as well (the toy gets taken away/tv turned off/time out in room, for examples) but it seems like spanking (which in this case means a light tap on the bum or thigh) is used if a situation escalates or she wants a more immediate response. It's the big guns, I guess you could say. The attention getter.

It's so easy for me to say right now that I won't spank, as ds is 10 months old and we haven't hit the age for discipline yet, so I can just say 'well we don't hit in our house'. But I don't have much applicable advice for her with her toddler.

Sorry I'm so rambly! Again, any help/stories/whatever is helpful.

[veggielover]

Bump : Sorry, can't be of much help, really. I have a 12 month old, so I haven't had to deal with this yet. Just wanted to give you a bump up--hopefully someone will respond with some good ideas

[Divina]

Well, I was never a spanking advocate, but I know I lapsed once or twice with my older kids ... I know that if things have gotten to the point that I want to hit, I need a time out for me! Absolutely necessary. If I can, I leave the room entirely and go take 10 or so deep, slow breaths. If I can't leave the room, I'll close my eyes and do the breathing. It helps a lot to calm me down, and then I can deal with the situation. Another tool I use is the "pattern interrupt", which sometimes takes the form of redirection, but can also mean just a physical change in the environment--opening or closing a window, turning on or off some music, moving to another room or outdoors, stuff like that. If there is a pattern to the child's behavior, her response, the child's reponse, etc., this is particularly helpful. She may not recognize a pattern--she'll need to observe and keep it in mind. Actually, "stepping outside myself" to observe the situation from a more detached point of view is very helpful, too, but it is strange at first and takes some practice. (Pretend you're behind a camera, filming your life right then).

She may not realize yet that a small child's "naughtiness" is very often due to underlying causes, such as fatigue, hunger, or fear. My experience is that one of these is the real problem about 95% of the time. Sometimes it's about testing limits, etc., but not nearly as often as a lot of people think. So she might try checking if there is a pattern to her kids' behavior, where they act up just before a nap or mealtime, or when they've just dealt with a new experience that might not seem scary to an adult, but is still maybe overwhelming to a toddler.

Other than that, I'd say let her call you whenever, and get her to the library to check out some of those books! Oh, and keep in mind, sometimes behavior problems will temporarily escalate when spanking stops, if it has been the regular pattern.

Oh, and thanks so much for being willing to help out a spanker who is considering change. It's not an easy road, especially without support.

[Icequeen_in_ak]

I was spanked as a child, and then some (some pretty substantial physical abuse from my father) and I can admit that as my daughter gets older (she's not even a year yet) she pushes limits and challenges me already and can make me upset, but I just take a step back and remind myself how I felt when I was hit. I don't want to teach her that hitting is okay. I don't want her to fear me. I don't want her to have any of the feelings that I did as a child.

Unfortunately, what so many parents don't realize is the long term effects of spanking. To me, spanking is basically the parents ability to not control their temper and nothing less. It makes THEM feel better to spank, as a release of frustration. I don't want her to learn that the best way to handle frustration is to hit another person.... and we wonder why children/adolescents of today are so violent???

I would just encourage her to work on alternatives and be consistent. She'll have to work on her own behaviors just as much as that of her children. Good luck to her!!! And I hope that folks here would be willing to support her in her transition!!!

[KellyB]

Hmmm...one of the most compelling reasons for me and my husband to not spank is the research that shows that children that are spanked are more inclined to suffer emotional problems later in life compared to children that are not spanked.
I'll come back with a link on this later.
If your friend could provide a list of the behaviors that she feels the need to spank for, it would be easier to list the spanking alternatives...
I know it's very controversial, but I know a mom that found that the "1,2,3 Magick" system worked far better than spanking ever did, and IMO, it's a step in the right direction, at least. As belitteling as it might be, I think it's less belitteling than hitting.
http://www.aap.org/advocacy/childhealthmonth/spank.htm
http://www.come-over.to/FAS/spanking.htm

[bionicsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Icequeen_in_ak

To me, spanking is basically the parents ability to not control their temper and nothing less. It makes THEM feel better to spank, as a release of frustration.

I am a mom who was spanked as a child and I have to work very hard to control the urge to spank my own child. Sometimes I fail and it is heartbreaking. I wanted to say that I disagree with Icequeen...I feel absolutely terrible when I spank, but it is so ingrained in me that if I am not on top of this constantly than I lose it. Sure some people are just cruel, but I think many other parents need help controlling these impulses. We should not look down upon parents as terrible failures when they spank out of loss of control. These are the people who need our help most.

I hope your friend reads this and sees that not all moms want to flame (don't flame me for this statement). If your friend needs a support buddy to talk about this with, she can pm me.


I would also like to second the need for mommy time-outs/space when the urge arises. Parenting is very stressful at times and I know that I definitely need space away from ds when he gets too wild or I am too tired, cranky, moody...etc.

[Renaissancemom31]

reforming my behavior

OK - I'll take the leap. I'm a reforming spanker. I was raised by spankers. It's really hard to change, but what I find most useful is to close my eyes and take a big breath (or two, or three). If that doesn't work I get up and calmly leave the room. Another idea is to try to difuse the situation with humor (if appropriate)
My boys have pretty much outgrown it. I think my hardest times are when they talk back to me in a disrespectful tone - I have slapped their mouths, but now I try to difuse the situation and that seems to work much better.
The other day Ben just about had me over the edge - so I told him that I REALLY NEEDED him to go into his room and read for about 1/2 hour (he was hovering over my desk while I was trying to work , asking the same question over and over, whining, complaining...) He started to argue again and I told him that I was *this* close to losing it and I REALLY needed him to just go read quietly for a while. He decided not to press his luck any further and off he went.
I have to agree that spanking is more of an outlet for parents frustration than a tool for correction. I still feel that there are a VERY few occasions where a swat might be justified - but that doesn't mean that I'm not open to change - it's just what I have always known. If a child is in a dangerous situation you want to emphasize the point - when you've been raise in that kind of discipline, the idea of a swat is second nature. Please don't flame me here - I'm trying to be honest, and I AM looking at the alternatives. I take it one day at a time, one crisis at a time.
I've NEVER condoned spanking for a child under 2 (with the exception of swating a hand away from a sharp or hot object - but parents should try to keep the child environment free of such hazzards - not punish the child for curiosity).
The more I think about it - the more I realize that this is not an effective way of dealing with a child. Unfortunately I had to learn that at the expense of my first two children . And now I have to unlearn everything that comes to me as second nature. It's a very difficult thing to do - but I am determined not to put Rachel through what her brothers have been through. It's not effective or productive.

[Hey Mama!]

Originally Posted by SarahNH

Why did you decide to stop spanking/never spank? How do you stop that urge/instinct to hit, especially if you were spanked as a kid or used to spank but stopped? What did you start doing instead?

I am a reformed spanker. I decided to stop after dd#2 was born. I was spanking Ainsley for every little thing and it suddenly dawned on me that I was turning into one of those moms. And, it just wasn't/isn't an effective form of discipline for her. It was so hard at first. It's easier just to spank then stop and think of a more acceptable punishment. What worked for me was starting consquence based punishment, like if dd throws a toy after I tell her not toy, the offending toy is taken away. Also, when I was really mad I would clap my hands together really hard. It sounds crazy but it helped! The action of spanking and the sound would immediately defuse my temper. Now, we have successfully been spank free for a long time now, I can't even remember the last time I did it. Ainsley is a much happier girl and we are a much happier family as a whole. Bethany will never know what a spanking is like.

I still lose it, but instead of hitting my children I will leave the room, or make Ainsley go to her room if she is raging. I've also screamed into pillows.

[Renaissancemom31]

hadn't thought of that

WOW - it just occured to me that I do something similar to this when I want to spank. Now it make sense - because it's something I never did before I decided to quit spanking!

"Also, when I was really mad I would clap my hands together really hard. It sounds crazy but it helped! The action of spanking and the sound would immediately defuse my temper."

[sonorandelight]

I'm a reformed spanker

Yes, I was spanked, and I spanked my oldest. Then when my oldest was 11 or 12, I started to have the weirdest urges which helped me create a tool to help me not hit my children. I noticed that when I was getting irritated my hands were really wanting to make a connection with my child. With that insight it occured to me that perhaps the connection could be satisfied with a lighter touch, such as an affectionate squeeze, a light pat, or a soft stroke on her cheek. Obviously it took a great deal of focus to accomplish this while I was angry, but the touch really did satisfy the urge. Hope it helps.
Noelle

[canadiyank]

Do you have any ideas of specific scenarios your friend struggles with? Sometimes it's easier to brainstorm when there's a "problem" and we can think of ways to help with that. I use lots of redirection, "scripts" (i.e., modelling to her the language I would like to hear, instead of whiny tone, rude words etc.), and other things, but it really helps to know the scenario.

[SaraGubits]

I am used to be spanked

my father used to whip me with his leather belt for occasions such as making noise when he was sleeping. My mother used to slap my face, or swat me with her wooden soles slippers. I used to run away from them, covering my face and head, and they would swat my hands away from my face and slap in my face.
I lived in fear from my parents. They compared me to my cousins who were extremely good cooperative children. These children were never spanked. My father said, see, these good children need no spanking, but you are bad girl, you need more spanking. Who knows what a bad girl you would be if I did spank you less.
When I grew up I found out that my uncle, my mother's brother wanted to spank the children, but his wife who was never spanked didn't let him. She took charge of rising the children, and didn't let him to do anything if he was angry. This worked out very well. The children grew very cooperative, calm good natured children. The uncle saw there was no need for spanking, and eventually his need to spank was eliminated. That person is hot tempered like my mother, but his wife calmed him all of the time, and eventually his temper improved.
When I grew up, I was commited to never ever spank my own children. It was very hard, in occasons such as my son trying to hurt the baby, like smashing her head to the floor or trying to poke her eyes with his fingers, and seeing him laughing to see her cry. If it was urgent for the baby's safety I would grab him away. I would put him on the couch and tell him that the baby is hurt and crying, so please say I am sorry and give her a kiss. If I am very angry, I am telling him that I am very angry. If its the worst, I leave the room with the baby.
In general, my son is a great boy, smart, calm and cooperative. Not a rebel.
My father is telling me I am so lucky my son isn't like me, doesn't need to be spanked like me.. I told him it not true. That I am as good as he is, but different circumstances. One time my son nagged my parents and was whining.. they saw he can be a 'bad' boy. My mom admitted the mistake with the spanking. My father is aware of his mistake but doesnt' admit

[Renaissancemom31]

Would a new topic/thread be appropriate?

Sara - Your story is just the kind of motivation I need to keep trying to do the right thing. I don't want my chidren to be afraid, I want them to be good. Iwant them to be motivated to be good - and spanking just doesn't accomplish that. When I think about it - it just raises the tension level in the house - making it more and more stressful for all of us.

Is there a topic/thread anywhere for people who are struggling with the issue of spanking? Who want to quit but just need to talk it out with others going through the same thing? I think it would be useful to have a place where we can talk through the issues that cause us to spank, and how to avoid it. Preferably a flame-free zone where we can talk honestly about the issue. I have to say - I have not seen the flames I had expected over this issue. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that - knowing that we can safely and respectfully discuss solutions rather than rehashing the problem. It makes me feel comfortable with the idea of being honest about what I'm going through. Maybe it will make your friend feel more comfortable too (I assume she's lurking about here somewhere :

[sincitymama]

OMG! Somoeone resucitated my thread and I didn't even realize! lol How cool.

Thanks everyone for sharing with us. I think it must definitely be helpful to other parents, just knowing they aren't alone, you know? I think the last time my friend saw this thread it was new and seemed to be going nowhere, so I'll make sure to tell her it was revived. And since others have shared now, maybe she'll be more comfortable talking about it here and give examples of what situations they struggle with most. That way y'all can be more specific for her about what to do instead.

Renaissancemom31, You may want to check in the finding your tribe area, there's all kinds of tribes and I would swear I'd seen one before for reform ed/ing spankers. If not you can start one.

So anyway, yeah, I'll direct her back to this thread, maybe she'll decide to share with us. In the meantime, having you guys talk about it is cool!

Thanks so much,
Sarah

[mistymama]

I was spanked as a child, only on very rare occasion. But what I remember to this day is the anger my Mom delivered those hits with. She was always such a sweet, patient, loving Mom ... but the few times I was spanked, she had lost control. And even though the hits did not hurt very badly, the emotional damage was very real. I was a sensitive child and I remember the rage, humiliation and shame I felt.

So when I became a parent, I just *knew* that I would not spank. It was never even an option.

To be honest, I have not read very many books on the subject. Right now, going by my instinct and doing what comes natural is working well for us. It began with redirection and distraction as a baby, and as slowly moved into logical consequences as a toddler. I have a very active and strong willed child and GD takes soooooo much more effort to stop unwanted behaviors than a quick whack on the butt .... BUT, all I have to do is remember how I felt as a child, and take one look at my precious little boy to know that every bit of effort is worth it.

As far as alternatives go ... we do a bit of everything. If you are throwing blocks around the house and Mommy tells you to stop ... if you *don't* stop the blocks will go away. If you run towards the street, we stop playing outside until you can listen. But for the most part, I just give lots of love and attention and praise the behaviors I want to encourage. I also pay attention to what behaviors are age appropriate and I know what to expect/not to expect from him. And when I get really frustrated, I give MYSELF a time out ... turn on a cartoon for Alex, give him a drink, and go relax and regroup.

[frand]

I Offer This

1. The best quote I heard on spanking was that it's a parental temper tantrum.

2. It helps to sit and think through what we felt ourselves when our parents spanked us -- all I can remember are fear and shame and anger. I never 'learned' anything except to hide my true thoughts and feelings.

3. When my father was in his last weeks of life in his 80's, he had recurring dreams that he was being hit and pulled out of bed. It made no sense until my uncle told us that when my dad was little, his father used to hit him and pull him out of bed when he was angry. To think that stayed with him to the end of his life, and haunted him, made me realize just how powerful parental rage is in terms of the imprint it makes on a child. My father didn't walk around thinking about this, but it was still in him, affecting his dreams.

[momof2tadpoles0104]

guess ill come out of the closet

i am the friend SarahNH is refering to. I spank my 3 year old because i dont know what else to do. I have given him time outs and they dont work. I have taken away toys, movies, tv shows that doesnt work. I have told him he cant go outside or cant talk to someone on the phone, that doesnt work. i honeslty use it as a last resort but sometimes even spanking doesnt work its like hes just an honry child.
My biggest things about getting him to behave are that he screams, alot esp when im trying to put his brother to bed. he also likes to wrsetle with his brother(mind you his brother is 8 months old) i dont know what to do anymore, what do you all do? are your kids as mean as mine?
also wanted to add i wopuld have posted this sooner but i had visitors for the past few days.
Thanks in advance and please dont flame me.

[Icequeen_in_ak]

Originally Posted by momof2tadpoles0104

i am the friend SarahNH is refering to. I spank my 3 year old because i dont know what else to do. I have given him time outs and they dont work. I have taken away toys, movies, tv shows that doesnt work. I have told him he cant go outside or cant talk to someone on the phone, that doesnt work. i honeslty use it as a last resort but sometimes even spanking doesnt work its like hes just an honry child.
My biggest things about getting him to behave are that he screams, alot esp when im trying to put his brother to bed. he also likes to wrsetle with his brother(mind you his brother is 8 months old) i dont know what to do anymore, what do you all do? are your kids as mean as mine?
also wanted to add i wopuld have posted this sooner but i had visitors for the past few days.
Thanks in advance and please dont flame me.

Sarah,
I'm not going to lie to you. You have work ahead.... you have habits that need to be broken (for both you and your DS). You need to establish acceptable boundaries for him and you have to be consistent.

When you say that taking things away doesn't work, do you follow through consistently? I had a friend that would threaten to take stuff away and it wouldn't work.... so she would just give up. Think about that from a child's perspective... if I throw a fit, she'll give up and let me have it anyway... where is the motivation not to throw a fit??

Explain to me how things "aren't working". When you say a time out doesn't work... how is it not working?

I think you hit on something in your post though.... you said that spanking doesn't work either. There is your motivation to stop.... obviously it's not doing any good.

I would talk to your son... explain to him that certain behaviors are not acceptable. Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. When he violates those boundaries, have a consistent consequence (e.g. isolate him for a brief time, remove a priveledge, etc.) I sincerely doubt your son is mean, he may be having a hard time adjusting to his sibling, he may be just simply testing your boundaries. It will get better with patience and work.

If I know more of the specifics, perhaps I can help you out with things I've learned and/or read.