helping a spanker to stop-need ideas - Page 2

[canadiyank]

What kinds of things does he scream about when you're putting your other son to bed? Is he wanting attention...does he have a bedtime routine, too, so maybe you can talk about that, so that he has something to look forward to? Instead of time out can you try a "cuddle corner." It's purpose is not to isolate, but to connect. It may be tough when you just want him to go away and be quiet, and like others have mentioned, it's helpful to isolate yourself for awhile while you calm down. Could you post a recent scenario where you spanked and we can help you come up with alternatives that might have worked in that case?

[KellyB]

Hey...no flaming from me...I don't believe in flaming, so no worries there...
OK...what is the one situation that is most likely to end in spanking?
Tell us every little detail of what goes on, and we'll help you try to think of what will work *better* than spanking....
With a collective effort, we'll figure this out.

[LunaMom]

There are lots of alternatives to spanking, but I think the real way to reform a spanker is to change their idea of what it means to discipline a child.

When someone believes that the way to raise a child is to punish them or inflict some kind of negative consequence every time the child misbehaves, then they are going to have a hard time believing that they can effectively raise a well-behaved child without spanking (or time-outs, or loss of privileges).

On the other hand, if a person truly understands that misbehavior is usually not "naughty" and is simply normal childish behavior, then it is easier not to take it personally and to see each incident as an opportunity to teach the child more appropriate behavior.

I'm not saying that I've never used punishment, but I really prefer to manage my daughter's behavior by teaching her what's appropriate rather than only react when she does something inappropriate. I praise her when she is being cooperative or kind or polite or patient, and I prepare her for potentially difficult situations so that she is more likely to behave ("We're going to be sitting at the table for a long time with only grown-ups and you might get bored...do you want to bring some books and some paper and crayons just in case?").

If there is a specific behavior that has become a huge problem, my husband and I will set up a sticker chart for her. Recently she had gotten into the habit of talking back in a fresh way, and we decided to give her a sticker each day she was respectful the whole day. We let her know other ways to express frustration other than yelling or using hurtful words. Some kind of small reward for a certain number of stickers was the incentive.

All these ideas, though, won't help someone who truly believes that a punishment of some sort is necessary. Parents who feel this way need to realize that we are trying to teach our kids to control their own behavior someday, and that if the only way they will behave is when there is a threat of punishment, they will never learn proper self-control in situations where that threat is absent.

[mzleslie]

I've swatted, I regret it, a child learns through example

I've been on many AP threads always looking for good disipline techniques. My parents spanked me only a few times. I don't know where I get the urge to do it myself, but I have a few times and regret it instantly. I don't like the look in my son's eyes nor the cry that follows (even though it doesn't hurt physically, I know it does mentally). I have a 2.5 yr old and an 11 month old and a husband who works in the restaurant biz so he's rarely home. Now that I'm working full time, I dont get a break, ever, so I know it's out of my own frustration. The words used above fit: an adult temper tantrum. It's a reaction that hasn't been thought through. If I don't want him throwing tantrums, I shouldn't do it myself. If I want him to learn how to calm down, I should lead by example and show him how I calm myself down. Instead of hitting him, I can teach him that when I get angry, I can take myself out of the situation (give myself a timeout) and not hit another human being. I can teach tolerance.

I like the suggestion above regarding just touching softly. This has actually worked for us and I didn't even realize what I was doing. I would just take a few deep breadths and remember the quote "it shouldn't hurt to be a child."

Now I find that if I can step back and let it go, just let him be a kid and realize he is doing the best that he can for his age and it's up to me to "teach" him how to behave and not punish him for behaving what I deam inappropriate, I get better results. The times I swat or yell, he just gets mad and does the same behavoir again or learns to hide it. He took to running in parking lots, not fun with a baby on your hip. The last time he did it, I did yell becuase I was so scared and mad, but not direclty at him, more just voicing how scared and angry I was. I put him in the car and we went straight home for a lengthy time out - no outdoor play or errands that day. I even bounced a check because we never got to the bank - no big deal in the grand scheme as my child no longer runs in parking lots and likes to actually hold my hand and look for cars before crossing.

Humor helps. While typing this, I didn't notice how quiet it had gotten. When I checked on the kids, my 2 yr old managed to climb up and grab the powder covering his baby sister from head to toe as well as getting most of himself and the room. I was so mad, I reacted and then grew calm and told him I was really upset. My baby girl just sat there crying I could barely see her eyes through the powder! I didn't know what to do. I told my son, "look at your sister, this isn't good." Then we both laughed and they got an afternoon bath. Ok, it took 20 extra mintues out of my day to bath the kids and vacuum the mess. No harm done (thankfully). I did talk seriously with my son and told him I was unhappy with his behavoir. He eventually said sorry. Whew, major tantrums diverted on both sides.

It's not easy some days when I'm exhausted and have no help. I do find if I can manage a few deep breadths, it's easier. Also, if I make sure snacks are always on hand, I can see the energy and angst brewing in my son - I can divert with snacks and then some calm down time by coloring with him or tumbling around on the floor with him for a while so he gets some one-on-one mommy time. There are still days of tantrums, but I just let him throw them, tell him my expectations once and then keep doing what I was doing. That's the other thing, no more repeating myself or 1-2-3. He knows the rules, I explain once, "no hitting with this toy". If he hits with it, I explain what I had said earlier and the toy goes away for the day. He hits his sister, he gets put in his room to play while his sister and I play in another room. He throws his food, the food and dishes go in the dishwasher, all done. I say it once, I say what will happen and if it happens once, I do as I said, no more chances. This has changed his behavoir greatly!

I swore I would never hit, and yet I did it. It's easier, it feel almost natural (scary, huh?). But it really does more damage than any good. Kids learn from observation, I hope to never, never hit again - this is not the behavoir I want my child to learn.

Sorry this is so long, it felt good to type all of this out! I realize how far I've come!!

I wish all you moms out there struggling with this lots of love and patience.

Leslie

[canadiyank]

Originally Posted by mzleslie

My parents spanked me only a few times. I don't know where I get the urge to do it myself,

I've often wondered this myself. I suppose it's like biting and hitting from our kids - we don't teach it to them, yet they still do it. My 3 yo dd rarely (can't remember the last time she did it) yet today she got dh good and he just screeched he was so taken by surprise. It's not like we go around biting her, yet for some reason she had the urge.

That urge to hit is something that we *can* restrain, though, but it does take a conscious effort. I know my friend started throwing things against the wall instead of hitting. Then one day she said, "Yikes, I don't want to teach my child THAT, either!" LOL And so we learn...

I know for me that a lot of times I feel "wronged" by dd somehow and therefore "justified" in hitting. It's not logical at all, but it's some sort of weird displaced anger/sense of justice. I have not hit her in over a yr, but did a few times before that. I still have the urge, on occassion, but learning new techniques for discipline has really helped that.

Like LunaMom says, it really takes an entire change in mindset! This is hard to do. We parent non-punitively (no *extra* things to drive the point home, no time-outs, etc.) but it is really, really hard to get rid of the thought that they need to feel bad and guilty in order to not do it again. This is not true! But there's times even now I wish she would show some remorse or something, like I'm not getting the point through unless she feels bad. I know this isn't true, but it's such a hard thing to get through my head.

Honestly, practicing PD has changed *me* more than anything, both in the different mindset I have, and the way I act b/c I know I am a model for my child...I haven't read all of the book, but Pieper's book "Smart Love" really drives that home, and how the parent is the "perfect" role model in the eyes of the child - are we worthy of that?

I'm in a parenting class at our church, unfortunately not non-punitive, but he has a really good sense of age-appropriateness, punishment vs. discipline etc., and suggests a lot of PD things like family meetings, etc. One of the recent things was about modelling and exactly what I said above - what are we modelling? The question for the class was, what do you do that you don't want your child to learn? *Every* parent (including myself!) said, in one way or another, the way I handle anger. Like Mzleslie said, we're teaching how to behave...is the way we process our anger, the way we discipline, etc. - is that teaching them the right thing?

Well, I didn't mean this to be an essay, I've just really been thinking about my anger a lot lately and that yeah, while I don't punish my child, I certainly don't model my anger well, and most of it, to be perfectly honest, is completely unjustified. Not a fun thing to realize!

[nova22]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me that spanking isn't doing you a whole lot of good. Your child is still screaming and still tackling his brother, correct? Spanking seems to be a short term "solution" that causes more long term problems.

The book list other posters have referred to can be a little daunting, that's for sure. There are a ton of books listed. Right now I'm reading Easy To Love, Difficult To Discipline. It is easy to read and full of realistic examples. I highly recommend it. I'm not even finished with it yet and after using the methods I've read over so far, I've seen a lot more peace and cooperation in our family.

The main thing I've learned so far is that you cannot discipline your children without first disciplining yourself. Don't be a "do as I say, not as I do" parent, in other words.

That's about all I can tell you because I don't have more experience. Good luck.

[BethyM99]

I am mama to a 3 year old and a 6 month old, so I can understand what a challenge these ages can be. I am not a spanker, because I was abused (spanked) as a child. It took me realizing that what happened to me as a child was abuse, always in anger and very mean. It hurt, it still hurts today. I can't do that to my children.

It is so hard though, it's hard to be consistent. It's hard to be exhausted and nursing the baby and trying to get him to sleep while the other one wants to sing!

I find that choices work really well for my 3 year old. It seems that when he has two things to pick from, he does much better. "Do you want to go to bed now, or read one more book and then go to bed".

Sometimes, you just have to do things to get by. When you are trying to put the baby to bed, set the 3 year old down with a book or video that he loves. Sometimes, you have to use the tools available to you. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to put your baby to bed and being interrupted.

We found the only thing that helped tame my anger and urge to hit was a "no-touch" rule. My husband and I agreed never to hit our children in anyway when my son was just over a year. Hubby slapped his hand for reaching for something on the coffee table in the formal living room. I cried and cried and remembered what it felt like as a kid to be hit. We've never touched again... it is my opinion that a person with an urge to hit, can not touch (hit) in anyway if they are to break the cycle.

Good luck to you. You've taken a big step in recognizing that there might be better ways. Continue to explore new ideas.

[oandc'smom]

It sounds like your son is giving you a really hard time. That must be soooo frustrating for you.

I do have a question. In the past, when your son has cried, screamed, or thrown a tantrum when you have told him "no" or taken something away, does he eventually get what he wants? If this is the case, what he has learned is that he will get what he wants, he just has to escalate his "misbehavior".

Another thought is that he may need more attention than he is able to get from you, because of your young baby. So he can get attention from you, if he misbehaves. Attention is attention, even if it is a slap or a spank.

I have two boys ages 4 1/2 and 18 months. It is sometimes very hard, because the baby's demands and needs seem much more urgent more of the time, than my older son's. My older son knows that he had my attention nearly 100% of the time in his first 3 years of his life, and now he has to share it with someone else. All of the time.

One of the things I have tried to do is tell the baby that I need to give the older boy some attention. They both hear it. Even if the baby is crying, and he has been fed, nursed, changed etc, and not in danger. That way, my older son knows he is still important in my life.

I spanked my son once. It was awful for me. He caught me by surprise, playing, and playfully bit me on the bum while I was washing dishes. It hurt some, but surprised me even more, and I whirled around and "popped" him on the bottom as they say down here. That sure got his attention, and we both started to cry.

I immediately picked him up and hugged him, and sat down with him and apologized and explained to him as best I could what had happened. I also told him in a calm and gentle manner, what I expected of him.

Nonetheless, I obsessed about that spank for DAYS. I felt so guilty. Partly, because my husband and I are both big believers in no spanking.

At three years old, your son probably understands alot more than you might think. Perhaps you could sit down with him and tell him the things that you love about him, and tell him about the behaviors that he does that make you proud of him and happy. If he helps you with the baby or picks up his toys, or gives you hugs. Anything that he does that you would like to see more of.

Sometimes, when my son is having a meltdown (and they are often when he is tired or hungry, or just has had enough) After I calm myself down, by leaving for a minute, taking a breath, regrouping, and asking for strength, I go to him, and hold him and talk to him lovingly, but like he is a baby. I'll rock him, or sing to him, and that helps, too.

This is getting quite long, but I hope this is helpful. Being a parent is soooo hard sometimes. Trust your heart to know what is right, and what makes sense.

Good luck.

Maury

[kclj1436]

First of all I am not flaming! I am going thru the same thing with my alomost 4 year old. Im had tried it all taking things away, time out, spanking, (unforturnately screaming), restrictction. And NOTHING worked spanking was amking it worse.
However yesterday I packed ALL his toys up. And made him stay in his room and behave. After 1 hour he gets 1 toy. If he behaves he gets another toy after an hour and so on. If at any piont after I warn him once to behave and he does not he loses toys and we start over. And he has time out in his room for at least 5 minutes. Granted we have only been doing this 2 days. And he ahs struggled I calmly pick him up and take him back to his room, if he crys and screams I shut the door until he is done and so on. But it is really really working for us.
He was very mean and disrespectful to me, and mean to his 15 month old sister. And to the piont where he was going to hurt himself from not staying out of things. And I was at the piont of no return with my temper.
I HOPE THIS HELPS! Feel free to email me or pm me if you like!

[monkeysmommy]

I was not spanked, yet I still have the urge sometimes to spank my child. The urge comes when my child is doing something inappropriate or some unwanted behavior, and I just can't think of a positive, logical way to deal with it, usually due to fatigue or burnout or whatever. In these cases, I do use time outs because I believe it is better than hitting or yelling. I just, calmly as I can manage, say, "I need you to go in the bedroom now." Later when I have my wits about me, I think about the behavior and come up with a plan for what to do next time the problem arises, and then I do it next time. If the unwanted behavior is just annoying or disrepectful but not harmful to anyone and I can't think of a good way to handle it, I *let it go*. I think about it later, come up with a strategy, and try it next time. I don't worry that my child will become a horrible brat because I didn't get control of the situation then and there. I almost never think of a good creative, positive way to respond the first time a new unwanted behavior occurs! I have to mull it over, come up with a plan, and then try it next time. It helps to come over here to this board. I usually don't post but if I do a search I can find another person's similar situation.

I hope this is not coming off as advocating not disciplining! That's not what I'm trying to say! I hope that's clear!

[backwoodsmama]

My husband and I agreed we didn't want to spank our kids before they were born, but we both have had lapses where we lost our tempers. After which I have apologized and vowed to never do it again. Trying to take deep breaths or get a few minutes alone helps. Also, I know I am more prone to losing it when I'm hungry or have been eating too much sugar or chocolate. So I try really hard to eat well, and that does help a lot. Sometimes, when I know I'm going to lose it, I'll hit myself instead - it jolts me into feeling what it's like to be hit which is not what I want my kids to feel.

My daughter is 3 1/2 and she also tends to have screaming fits when I tried to put our 1 year old down for a nap. I'm afraid I dont' have a good solution but the spanking absolutely made things worse. So I just gave up on trying to give the little guy regular naps - fortunately he's very happy during the day so not having a regular schedule works OK for him. I try to run errands when he's likely to be tired and he sleeps in the car, or during a walk in the stroller. It's not my ideal situation, and some days he's cranky and tired and I get soooo mad at my daughter. If all else fails I let her watch a video while I nurse him and let him sleep latched on in my lap for awhile.