Toddlers comprehension (honest discussion) - Page 3

[wasabi]

Oh don't worry you guys like I said some of it is just frustration! :LOL It's like a mantra--keep doing this and one day she'll get it!

Calm you mentioned not using don't words. I usually say "oh we don't hit please give me a hug instead" or "Hitting hurts, please give hugs instead." Is it that problematic to say "we don't hit"? I will say I am lucky in that while she hits DH and I it's usually more slaps when she gets excited. It's not major hitting. She has hit playmates occasionally but again they were not hard hits with one exception. Sometimes she just gets so excited that's what she does. I'm sure as she gets older she'll understand that's not an appropriate way to express excitement.

[dancingmama]

One thing that I didn't notice mentioned in this thread, and which I think is REALLY important, is to honor the impulse. As in, "Ooooh, dd, no hitting people! It looks like you are really mad/upset/frustrated! Is it too noisey in here? Did so-and-so take your toy?" After your child feels heard , in my experience, she is much more likely to accept redirections, etc. As in, "we don't hit people when we are mad. But we can hit this couch! We can hit it really hard when we feel mad."

I also think it's really important to pay lots of attention to the child who was hit, allowing your child to see the consequences of her actions.

I have found the book "Becoming the parent you want to be" to be a WONDERFUL resource, with lots of good real-life examples in all sorts of situations.

HTH

[Calm]

There is a lot of psychology behind avoiding "don't" words. I would take several pages to write it. Hopefully I can be trusted enough to take what I write with the limited psychological backup that there is a good reason. (perhaps knowing I have a psychology background helps with this trust). When we say "don't drop that" for example, we formulate a picture or concept in a person's mind - of dropping it. It is akin to saying "don't think of an elephant", most people immediately think of an elephant.

We formulate the picture, and then negate it - drop that, don't. We could be balancing on a tightrope and if someone says "don't fall off!" we will wobble a little, as the psychology is such that we implant a possible outcome. Not only that, but it offers no assistance, it simply affirms a possible outcome, the one possible outcome you are trying to avoid. Therefore, it is better to think of what you do want. What is it you want when a toddler holds a glass of water? You want them to hold on tight with two hands. Tell them this. Not only is it a positive picture to implant in their psyche, it is also more helpful.

If you tell a toddler to "hold on tight with both hands" you are guiding, giving them advice to reach the preferred outcome. If you tell them "don't drop it" you are dictating, without guidance, and they have no advice to follow on how not to drop the glass.

This extends to everything:
- don't hit = be gentle with your friends
- don't fall = hold on tight to the ....
- don't run off = stay beside me while we walk
- don't yell = use a quiet voice
- don't run up the stairs = wait for me at the bottom of the stairs

This list goes on.

When you asked is it that bad, well, no, it isn't critical, and most of us were brought up with such language. But it implants things that don't extend to the rest of their life. For example, don't yell - in some circumstances, yelling is either necessary in life or useful. Do you want a child's psyche to have your voice ringing around in it saying "don't yell"? Don't run up the stairs - what if they become an athlete? They will run up stairs. So, the advice is too general. It needs to be specific for that moment.

I hope that helps. I know from experience it is hard to change, but worth it.

[allgirls]

Makes perfect sense Calm and is something I am working on...still say "don't" out of habit some times but getting better...

cheers

[LoveBeads]

One of my favorite GD books (Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline - don't let the sucky title fool ya!) talks about this.

The author states that "what you focus on, you get more of". So when you say "stop whining", you are focusing the child on the whining. Instead she suggests that you say "please speak in a voice that is easier for me to hear" (or something like that) which gives the child a better focus.

I'm not saying this well. Anyway, it's a great book!

[wasabi]

I do try to put things in positive terms but I need to work on it more. : Heck it sure won't hurt me to pause for a second to think of a way to rephrase it before I speak!

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by Damien

My wife and I subscribe to the theories from "Raising a non-violent child" by John Rosemond and was wondering what people here thought of it.

One of the key aspects of the current parenting philosophy is that you must talk to your child in depth about what they did, why they did it and have them comprehend the reasons they shouldn't repeat the offense. I was wondering how people believed that, say, a two or three year old would be able to fully comprehend what was going on in either in themselves or in others in a given aggressive situation.

I don't know what current parenting philosophy you mean. Have you read any other books than Rosemond?

There are always lots of examples of dopey parenting around, both the too strict and the too loose varieties. The main thing to realize is that if you don't model gentle behavior and self-control, your child won't have an example from whom to learn. If you are harsh and demand obedience, you may get it. But do you want a child who is obedient to "legitimate authority" or a child who has self-discipline and is resilient in the face of obstacles? Obedience doesn't seem to me the key to long-term self-discipline.

That is, you won't get a non-violent six or seven year old because you demand obedience from a three year old. You get a non-violent six or seven year old because of your consistent attention and modeling of appropriate ways of dealing with anger and fear.

From what I have read, a child at two or three years is in the process of developing self control and empathy, the two things you need not to hit people when you get angry. Every child is going to develop these abilities at a different pace. The key is to have expectations that match their abilities at the age they are. It is definitely too permissive to say that a child is "just a child" if they hit when they are six or seven. You could say that about a three-year-old, but even so you have to intervene, give information about what hitting does to the person you hit, and give the child a way to do better: leave the situation and calm down, figure out how to make amends, figure out how to use words.

I've seen good toddler parenting in action and it looks awesome. When you are in a community of parents and children, you get to see all the ways people do things, and the punitive way doesn't seem to work.

[annab]

This thread is rockin'. First of all, I am anti-Rosemond. Every column, it seems that I read the first paragraph, get a glimmer of hope that he is not going to go over the edge, then WHAM! He writes something that totally gives me the willies. As I tell my sister, who thinks he is marvelous, I don't think I have ever run into a child psychologist who appears to hate kids as much as he does.

I think this may be parroting a lot of what has been said here, but I want to share my feelings of authoritarian parenting. I am trying to raise a thinker. I want him to look at a situation and question the motivations, the rationale, the outcome, the process--all of it. I don't want him to be afraid to ask, "Why are we doing this?" I don't want a child who can be led blindly. If I don't give him critical thinking skills (and authoritarianism does not), how can I expect him to make good choices?

In addition, if I am an authoritarian, what that means to him is that he only makes the 'right' decision when I am there. I want him to make the 'right' decisions based on a sense of good and evil, justice, self-worth and liberated thinking, not his proximity to me. Fear and authoritarianism just don't create thinkers.

Want an extreme example? Countries that have little to no crime rate because their rulers are severe. Fear of punishment keeps them in line, but it does not really give them a reasonable quality of life either. Let's face it: Iraqis were not unruly when Saddam was around. Of course the fear of severe punishment and death promoted a false sense of peace.

On the topic of 'buddy' parents...There is a huge difference between gentle discipline and NO discipline. Nothing frosts my bottom more than people whose kids are not taken care of who do it all in the name of AP and GD. It makes the rest of us look bad. :

What I would tell brave Damien is to read more. I love to read parenting books and take what I can use and discard the rest. However, if you are dedicated to practicing GD, then don't read Rosemond. You probably won't find any gems in there. And use this forum as a resource! I learn something here every single day. No joke.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by annab

... if I am an authoritarian, what that means to him is that he only makes the 'right' decision when I am there. I want him to make the 'right' decisions based on a sense of good and evil, justice, self-worth and liberated thinking, not his proximity to me. Fear and authoritarianism just don't create thinkers.

This is pithy and bears repeating. They have to learn from you so that they can do right on their own.

[sagira]

Calm wrote:

We formulate the picture, and then negate it - drop that, don't. We could be balancing on a tightrope and if someone says "don't fall off!" we will wobble a little, as the psychology is such that we implant a possible outcome. Not only that, but it offers no assistance, it simply affirms a possible outcome, the one possible outcome you are trying to avoid. Therefore, it is better to think of what you do want. What is it you want when a toddler holds a glass of water? You want them to hold on tight with two hands. Tell them this. Not only is it a positive picture to implant in their psyche, it is also more helpful.

Bravo! I couldn't agree with you more. I'm being conscious of what I say to ds. This advice is gold. I read it in Montessori Play and Learn. Psychologically it makes perfect sense (this from someone who minored in Psychology in college).

Cheers,