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he went to bed hungry last night! - Page 4

post #61 of 84
OK, I admit that this is a really sensitive topic for me, and why will probably become quickly apparent here. To those who believe that kids should eat what they are served or "they at least have to try stuff" or "they have to take 3 bites" or whatever, what do you or will you do when they don't?

My husband and I went around and around on this one. If you set up the rule, what do you do when they don't follow it? Do you force them to sit at the table until they do -- all night? Do you physically put it in their mouths? Do you present it for 3 days straight until they eat it?

I am sure that my parents thought they were doing the right thing when they started this rule. But this was something that I could control. So I didn't eat it ("it" being liver in the most memorable of these battles). I sat until my parents were ready to go to bed. But they were stubborn and so was I. So they tied me to the chair so I couldn't get up while they slept. Of course, that resulted in a mess, so I was whipped for that. Afterwards, they tried to force it into my mouth. I vomited. They tried to force THAT into my mouth. I vomited some more. So I was whipped again. THIS is where a power struggle can take you, because once it starts, no one wants to give in.

So before you make arbitrary rules, be sure you know how the scene will play out if they aren't followed. But more importantly, why do it to begin with? Yes, research shows that it takes a lot of exposure before children will try new things. It DOESN'T say they actually need to eat it -- just be exposed to it (e.g. see it on their plates). Do you eat things you don't like? I'll bet you don't even cook it, let alone eat it. Why should your children be forced to do so? Because it's good for them? Because it "builds character". There are probably easier and better ways to get whatever nutrients are in the disliked food and better ways to teach manners and character. Do you continue to eat once you are full? I'll bet not. So why force your children to do so?

The whole idea of forcing trial, forcing food that is disliked or sitting on the plate strikes me as profoundly disrespectful of the child and very "anti-AP".
post #62 of 84
post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom
So they tied me to the chair so I couldn't get up while they slept. Of course, that resulted in a mess, so I was whipped for that. Afterwards, they tried to force it into my mouth. I vomited. They tried to force THAT into my mouth. I vomited some more. So I was whipped again. THIS is where a power struggle can take you, because once it starts, no one wants to give in.

: OMG That is so disgusting. I am so sorry you were put through that. s
post #64 of 84
My dad made me "try" everything on my plate, and encouraged me to eat all of it.

Because I am the oldest and a "good" girl, I learned this lesson. This was a real problem for me for years. I literally couldn't leave food on my plate, whether I was hungry or not, whether it was healthy or not. Finally, I have learned to gauge my own portions at home, at to box up food at restaurants, so things are a lot better for me. But I still wish I hadn't been taught the lesson at all.

I hated lots of veggies when I was younger. Eating three bites didn't make me like them any more. Growing up and changing taste buds made me like them more.

My babe hasn't started solids yet, but when he's older, I really like the idea someone posted of pre-made, healthy snacks on the bottom shelf of the fridge. No muss, no fuss. I'll stick the uneaten dinner food in a container and eat it the next day myself- after all, I made it and I like it.
post #65 of 84
E&A's mom, that totally sucks, I'm truly sorry that happened to you, but that's obviosly not going on with any mamas on MDC. We cook things we haven't liked in the past, all the time, that's *how* our tastebuds grow to like new foods. We cook them in new ways to find a way we like them.

Seems odd to "applaud" E&A'mom's post, the OP was trying to figure out what consequence to use, not whether to whip her children or not.

Bec, these are not still babies, the OP's child is 4-1/2.
post #66 of 84
"My dh also does not eat foods he doesn't feel like eating. If he doesn't want what I have prepared, I make him something else. If I don't want what he has made, he makes me something else. Same goes for our dd. Or we just order a pizza."

Greaseball, you sound just like me on this one.

We are very relaxed here about what the children eat. I really don't get the objections to providing something extra or different, nor the horror that so many Americans have about 'picky eaters'.

"I don't see what's so hard about throwing together a peanut butter or cheese sandwich."

Nor do I. We just go with the flow. Children go through phases. Yesterday at breakfast dd#1 refused eggs, saying she'd 'never, ever, ever' eat them again, they were 'gross' blah blah blah. I just ummed, said nothing much and gave her a bagel. No fuss, no big deal. Yes, I got up out of my seat and I guess to many was what Americans call a short order cook?

Then hey presto, when I asked the kids what they wanted for dinner (dh was coming home late, so I cooked for them separately) dd said she wanted eggs. So that's what she had.

I firmly believe that if I'd insisted she had her eggs, or said I wasnt a short order cook, or showed any sort of concern about her refusal to eat them that morning, there would have been no way she'd have forgotten all about it and asked for them that evening.

My motto is that food is no big deal. I don't think that taking the line of making one meal and insisting on 'one bite' etc, or dishing it up or making kids sit to the table even if they dont eat, is making it no big deal. I've seen many, many children who use food as a power weapon with their parents, either blatantly or subtly. I refuse to even go there. Most stuff in our house is healthy, but my kids eat the same old stuff day in day out. Overall, it is balanced, but it can be as boring as heck. Do I care? Nope. They'll get over it, and even if they don't, as adults they can make their own choice to eat pasta every day and never touch an orange vegetable.

Some of the 'pickiest' eaters I knew as a child are now the most adventurous as adults. I was a fairly 'good' eater as a child, but now am somewhat particular.

On another note, there are children who have a genuine dislike of certain foods because of texture, for example. It is not their fault - one of my girls I suspect has SID. Today she sat and picked every single atom of onion out of some noodles dh had brought home for her from a work lunch. I thought I'd taken them out, but she found another ten or so in her bowl. It took her forever, and I'm sure would have driven a lot of parents nuts. But I know that those onion specks would have freaked her if they'd have ended up in her mouth. I choose to make no big deal of things like this. Who am I to say taht she shouldn't be revolted by the texture of onions?
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dready*mama
We cook things we haven't liked in the past, all the time, that's *how* our tastebuds grow to like new foods. We cook them in new ways to find a way we like them.

Bec, these are not still babies, the OP's child is 4-1/2.

I said that some of them were really still babies. At 4.5, they aren't all that far out of babyhood to be considered little adults with adult rationality, adult social rules, adult tastes.

As far as cooking things we don't like. I do the vast majority of the cooking in our house, and I don't cook things I don't like. I do a lot of the shopping too. I buy the things I like, the things I like to cook.

I try to make sure there are healthy alternatives for my dd to eat. She eats the majority of her calories at breakfast, lunch and snacks. She doesn't like dinner all that much. I think it is too late in the day for her, she's too tired to have the patience with it. I have also found that if she has something too rich, she'll just throw it up a couple of hours later. This is why we no longer have desert after dinner. If I know she's hungry, I will offer her something easy, yogurt, cereal, fruit, cottage cheese, slices of deli meat. It takes about 30 seconds to get ready, she's fed, no power struggles, and we have peace at home.

And, no, I don't worry that the mamas here are going to whip their child for not eating. But they are obviously thinking that they need to punish their children and force them to eat. That is a problem in my mind, and the people that have experienced it here as children are saying in the strongest terms possible, that it has made unhealthy eating habits in them as adults.


Bec
post #68 of 84
Even&AnnasMom, so sorry that you had to go through that abuse! Sounds like you're "breaking the cycle" and are doing so much better for your own kids. I agree with you about how setting up arbitrary rules around food can lead to some dastardly consequences!

Britishmum, you took the words right out of my mouth. When you say "We are very relaxed here about what children eat" did you mean in Great Britian? I think there is a cultural difference. From what I've seen and heard from people who live (or have lived) in other countries, Americans in general are much more concerned about what their children eat and when.

I believe that you can't teach a child to like a certain food by continually making them eat it. Just as you can't teach someone to like a certain piece of art simply by making them look at it over and over again.

Setting up a power struggle (which could lead to a lot of tears and anger from the parent and child) would probably only lead a child to hate the food because they associate it with a negative experience.

Passive exposure, - just like exposure to experiences like music, art, sports, etc. - is the key to assisting children in discovering their own likes and dislikes. Some kids don't like classical music, don't like impressionist art, don't like baseball, don't like to wear the color orange.... Why shouldn't a child be allowed to dislike broccoli, esp. if in the broad spectrum of things they are healthy?
post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom
I am sure that my parents thought they were doing the right thing when they started this rule. But this was something that I could control. So I didn't eat it ("it" being liver in the most memorable of these battles). I sat until my parents were ready to go to bed. But they were stubborn and so was I. So they tied me to the chair so I couldn't get up while they slept. Of course, that resulted in a mess, so I was whipped for that. Afterwards, they tried to force it into my mouth.
Who knew there were two sets of parents like that??? My most memorable was Cow Tongue (from my beloved "pet" cow even!). At about 3 am I finally fed it to the dog, which they discovered, resulting in a beating. This type of "discipline" has helped shape the way I discipline. Meaning I don't engage in stupid power struggles. Of course these are the extreme, but only beacause they were completely carried out to thier natural conclusion...most parents give up before the child vomits. Either way, you're talking about completely ineffective discipline!
Wish I could say more but I'm NAKing...
post #70 of 84
I had a sad lapse in sanity when my dd was 2.5 and asked for a cup of tea. I made it for her and she refused to drink it. I told her she had to stay in her chair until she drank it, because making a cup of tea is sooooooo much trouble, right?

She stayed in her chair for an hour and then fell asleep. It was a mistake for me to even try to win that one. I was so caught up in "can't let my child show me any disrespect!" It wasn't about wasting food at all, it was about showing someone who was boss.

What I do now is if she asks for something and then doesn't eat it, I just don't give her any more snacks. I don't worry about wasting food. It's waste to force it down a child who doesn't want it! It would be a lot less wasteful to just toss it to the chickens.

I was force-fed an entire pot of spaghetti once when I was 10. It was supposed to be dinner for a family of 6. It was my punishment for taking too much. And I also developed an eating disorder.
post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
I was force-fed an entire pot of spaghetti once when I was 10. It was supposed to be dinner for a family of 6. It was my punishment for taking too much. And I also developed an eating disorder.
Jeesh! What happened to our parents? What was the logic in this punishment? Let me guess, "you greedy brat, you're going to take more than your fair share, huh? Well, lets see how you like this? (insert evil laugh) That'll learn ya!!"
This really hits a nerve for me b/c this reminds me of my upbringing. My step-brother was "forced" to eat a box of 8 hershey bars b/c he took one without asking. He
loved that punishment! We were all jealous of him that day! Then there was the time my step-sis was forced to smoke a whole pack of cigarettes b/c they think she tried smoking at school. She is a very heavy smoker today. That sure taught her!
post #72 of 84
Yeah, why couldn't I have gotten the candy bar punishment? Actually, once my dad found a bunch of candy bar wrappers under my bed and he just looked at me strangely and said, "You can ask if you want one of these; you don't have to sneak them." It was just ingrained in me that food was something shameful.

I wonder what it is about food that can bring up severe emotional reactions? If you want to get someone mad at you, criticize the way they eat. Maybe you know what I'm talking about if you've ever seen the Atkins threads here. Feelings get hurt. Or when dh sometimes says to me, "That's what you're having for breakfast?!" I just want to scream at him.
post #73 of 84
[QUOTE=dready*mama]
Seems odd to "applaud" E&A'mom's post, the OP was trying to figure out what consequence to use, not whether to whip her children or not.QUOTE]

I assume the applause was for the last paragraph, which does, I think, make sense.

My point, which probably got lost in all of that, was to figure out BEFORE you make rules what you are going to do if they aren't followed and how you are NOT going to get caught in the power struggle. I am sure (well, I've sort of convinced myself in order to forgive) that these lovely scenes with my parents were not what my parents intended. But it is awfully easy for everyone to get caught up in the moment and not want to back down.
post #74 of 84
Gawd mamas! You all seem so fixed on your own crappy parents and their issues, you seem to have forgotten that the OP was not shoving food in her child's mouth, nor was she whipping him, nor forcing him to eat the entire family's dinners. Stop using this as an excuse to make yourselves more "AP" than anyone else. This has NOTHING to do with AP. What is AP? I believe it's baby-wearing, bonding, breastfeeding, etc. Nowhere is it said that an "AP" parent should have no rules, not make their kids do anything the child does not want to do. If I want my kids to have a wide range of tastes, to like many different foods, to not be afraid to try new foods, to look forward to going to potlucks b/c there will be new foods there, to NOT be picky, than that makes me no better or worse than any other mama here.
That's also fine if you are a picky eater and raise your children to be the same. But like it or not, picky eating is a learned trait. Disliking a few certain foods is normal, not picky.

We can all sympathize with the crappy childhood stories, I'm sure. But I have yet to hear of eating disorders from eating too much corn or peas. Also, British mom's, IMO, the mass of American culture could give a sh*t about what there kids are eating, where their kids are eating, or how much their kids are eating. I think there are just a select few of us that are seeing all the kids eating such horrible junk food b/c it's what they like, and their parents don't want to make an "issue" out of it. So a few of us are trying to reverse this popular trend of parent's being afraid to make rules for their children.

I know you'd all like to assume that the mamas here on MDC who make rules regarding food, are implementing some of the horrible punishments that our previous generations did. but I doubt we are. The OP has not found any sympathy for putting her child in the corner as punishment, and has probably rethought her strategy. Most moms here HAVE thought this through, and do have appropriate consequences for not following any rules in their houses.

Well, I know that was long, but I'm out after this post. Now you can all go on feeling sorry for yourselves and assuming that anyone who makes rules for their children regarding food are doing the same punishments that were done to you. WE'RE NOT! SHEESH!
post #75 of 84
Seems like the OP is long gone and has been since the beginning. It sounds like this is a sensitive subject for you, ever thought that maybe this is touching a nerve? We are all people, who come from various backgrounds that shape who we are as parents. So, it's going to come up in conversation. Like it or not.
post #76 of 84
You know, by page 4 of any particular thread, it is safe to assume that people are not just responding to the OP. I started my story, in fact, in response to later posts.

Dready Mama, I am not making any assumptions about anyone. And I'm not, in fact, sharing my story for sympathy points. I am, however, trying to weigh in with a warning and urging people to think before they start down a particular path. While I do NOT believe that anyone here is planning on beating their children, the idea that one should figure out what to do when a child says "no, I won't follow your rule" is still a good one. I have rules. In fact, I have rules (though very few) about food in our household. And I know exactly what my response will be when (not if, when) one of my children decides to test those limits. That is all I am suggesting that everyone should do.

Those of us who share painful stories do so to make a particular point, not to just spill our guts or so that people will say "there, there, isn't that awful". It hurts to do so and it takes a certain amount of trust. Your response is very, very hurtful and completely and totally uncalled for. I would appreciate an apology for assigning selfish motives and implying that I must be doing this for my own glory.
post #77 of 84
I think what everyone is trying to say by sharing their backgrounds is that PUNISHMENT SHOULD NOT BE SOMETHING USED IN ANY SITUATION THAT HAS TO DO WITH EATING FOOD. Well, besides throwing it or YKWIM. I mean food is one of the essentials here, as is water, sleep, and going to the bathroom. You have to do it because your body needs it. No child will let themselves starve...just continue to offer healthy food and let the kid sit at the table until everyone is finished. Why the power struggle over such a neccessity of life? If you want to be extreme, you might as well put your child in the corner when he isn't thirsty, not tired, or doesn't have to go to the bathroom.

ETA: Dready*mama I think you are being very insensative. Noone said that having household rules were bad or that we don't all have our own. Why don't you try thinking the best of other mamas who were humble and candid enoungh to share what happens when you put any kind of punishment with food, no matter how light or how harsh. The OP asked what we thought and we told her gently.
post #78 of 84
Dready Mama you really need to take a step back from what you are saying. Why do you think we have no rules? You're stereotyping people. I think that smart parents make rules where it is important and appropriate to do so. They choose their battle, and this varies.


I am very curious to know how you would MAKE a child eat. What, exactly, do you do? If you have some secret gentle respectful way of putting food in a child's body against their will, please share it with us. WHAT behavior manipulation do you first use and what physical coercion do you use if they don't comply?

I have authority in my household about nutrition, but I am not THE authority. Even my young children are taught that part of being healthy is listening to their own bodies cues. How can they hear that voice if it is drowned out by excessive parental authority? My authority is balanced by attentiveness to what my children are telling me and my awareness of their needs. I will get over it if they don't try something one, two, or fifteen times. It's not the end of the world. Force-feeding is ABUSE. Even a little.

Do you actually think that parenting consists of two extremes: permissiveness and authoritarianism? Do you think that this issue isn't about AP?

If one parent is comfortable with offering different food, then that's okay. There only needs to be a limit there if the parent is giving into demands in a helpless way. If it's a healthy, willing choice then it is a healthy choice and I personally wouldn't do it but that doesn't make them wrong to feel at ease with doing so. Otherwise, any parent has plenty of other REAL discipline challenges to be concerned with.

Are you trying to say that children don't learn to eat if not forced? Excuse me? My children will be hungry, and they will eat, and I control what is available when. Why waste my energy on controlling what they do? Eating is natural. It's really unlikely that they wouldn't eat. Approached like this, kids don't learn to be picky. Neither do parents manipulate them for a false sense of the child's good.

WTF do pioneers have to do with it?!?!? Do you think I am teaching my children that they will be catered to? There is nothing about food that children need to be punished for. NOTHING. The "misbehavior" does not even exist.
post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeporgarten
I think that smart parents make rules where it is important and appropriate to do so. They choose their battle, and this varies...


There is nothing about food that children need to be punished for. NOTHING. The "misbehavior" does not even exist.
post #80 of 84
Thread Starter 
Gosh i thought this thread died. I am the OP and i steped away from this because i was flamed hard. I had posted several times stating that the corner thing was out of line, but people continued to rank my over the coals.We have a new way to deal with the non-eating. I don't make a deal out of it. We have veggies and fruits within his reach if he dosen't like dinner. If he goes to bed hungry it is by his choice now. Thank you to all you mamas who gave great advice and understanding.
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