Non-Christians celebrating Christmas? Reconciling the hippocracy... - Page 3

[Darrel]

Originally Posted by kamilla626

OK, I'll try to make this fast and simple.

I was raised (casually, liberally) Protestant, until I was a teenager, when I was pretty much allowed to figure out my own spiritual/religous path.

I don't really consider myself to be a Christian now, but everyone in my family (parents, sib's, extended...) is Christian and we all celebrate Christmas in a big expensive commercialized chocolately cholesterol filled way!! Gift exchanges, get-togethers, tons of food, etc.

Part of me feels a little strange participating in what is essentially a "Happy Birthday Jesus" party. I just don't consider myself Christian, because I don't shape my life around living as Christ lived.

OTOH, I'm not anti-Christian. I do think Jesus was a powerful, wise, charismatic, (probably psychic) man who did a lot of cool hippy socialist things in his day. But I equally "take in" the values and teachings of other spiritual leaders as well, (including Nature itself).
So...
Is anyone else in a similar situation - celebrating only the secular aspects of Christmas, without being truly Christian? Do you feel guilty or weird about it? Have you added or eliminated parts of "traditional" Christmas to better suit your own beliefs?

Christmas has never had anything to do with Jesus or his day of birth . Christmas was never instituted by Jesus or celebrated by his apostles . Jesus was not even born in the winter as the lie is propagated .

[Darrel]

Originally Posted by chersolly

(Hippocracy? Rule by the Hippos.)

I'm agnostic and I don't find it hypocritical to celebrate Xmas. The Roman Catholic church picked Jesus' birthdate to be Dec. 25 in 336 a.d. to attempt to convert the masses who still wanted to celebrate Saturnalia. For me, Xmas is about family. DH is military and so was I not to long ago. The holiday season is the only time we're able to go home. We're able to see our loved ones, celebrate and have good time, regardless of our religious affiliations.

That is right on the money what you said about the R.C church picking that day to convert ( or kill anyone who opposed there doctrine ) .

[Ceinwen]

That is right on the money what you said about the R.C church picking that day to convert ( or kill anyone who opposed there doctrine ) .

Ooookay. I'm a non-practicing Catholic (much to my parents dismay ) But is it just me - those last two posts felt a little inflammatory? And whether you like it or not - the word "Christmas" has the word "Christ" in it - meaning "Jesus". You can't change that - even if you don't believe in it.

I don't think we're here to debate anyone's faith - just whether or not you celebrate Christmas and how. And just for the record in my family, we use the Christmas season to relax and just hang together in a very low key way. Baking, playing outside in the snow, hanging with friends - that's my idea of a holiday.

[sevenkids]

I love, love, LOVE Christmas!
I'm not Christian, I'm rather Pagan, but I LOVE Christmas! I also love celebrating Yule and Kwaanza.
The shopping frenzy doesn't bother me at all, because I don't participate in it.
I don't go to the mall, because we make our gifts. We spend a week baking cookies and cakes, making mulled wine, eggnog and spiced apple cider for gifts. I have my dried fruits soaking in wine in anticipation of baking my Jamaican style fruit cakes. I love how my house smells at Christmas time! Like cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla, allspice, cloves and orange peels.................
Everything on our tree is edible, except the lights.......we bake and decorate cookies and wrap them in plastic wrap and tie them with ribbons. We string cranberries and popcorn garlands. We hang candy canes. We make popcorn balls and wrap them in red, green and gold cellophane and tie them on with ribbons.
I love getting together with family and friends, sharing food, drink and laughter. I love having my son's friends over for dinner. (There's usually at least 6 or 7 of them)
My kids choose ONE really important gift. That's it, they get ONE gift, and their stockings filled with trinkets and candy. (The only time they get candy is for holidays)
We walk to midnight mass at the R.C. church, and then walk home under the winter stars, filled with peace and joy. Oh, the carols are so beautiful! What a message of hope and love!
We make tons of food, and we share into paper plates nicely wrapped with foil complete dinners, and then drive dwn to the marina and share our food with the homeless. We collect clothing and blankets and distribute them with the food.
We go to every party we can, not out of a feeling of obligation, but because we love the people there.
I don't feel a bit guilty at all. Why should anyone feel guilty celebrating love and giving?

[Hayes]

Christmas only has something to do with Christ because of the Roman Catholic Church. Call it inflamatory if you like, but it is the truth. Easter is quite the same. The RCC picked December 25th because it is close to the winter equinox, a pagan celebrated holiday. Christmas is the same as Halloween, just made "pretty" by people, not by Christ, and not preached in the Bible.

I always find it laughable when staunch Christians refuse to celebrate Halloween because it is "Satanic" but celebrate Christmas with trees and lights and such.

For the record, I am a Christian. We celebrate Christmas a purely secular holiday, trees, gifts, family, food. Halloween is the same, except we get candy instead. Easter too, eggs, bunnies, ham, but no Jesus.

We celebrate the death burial and ressurection of Christ on every Lord's Day, through the Lord's Supper, as commanded in the New Testament.

[wednesday]

I am not Christian but I enjoy celebrating the secular aspects of Xmas. I would never have angels or nativity scenes for decoration, but I dig decorating the tree and hanging stockings and exchanging presents with family. I see it as a cultural celebration. I understand it also has religious significance to some people but that does not affect my experience and enjoyment of it.

[Darrel]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

Ooookay. I'm a non-practicing Catholic (much to my parents dismay ) But is it just me - those last two posts felt a little inflammatory? And whether you like it or not - the word "Christmas" has the word "Christ" in it - meaning "Jesus". You can't change that - even if you don't believe in it.

I don't think we're here to debate anyone's faith - just whether or not you celebrate Christmas and how. And just for the record in my family, we use the Christmas season to relax and just hang together in a very low key way. Baking, playing outside in the snow, hanging with friends - that's my idea of a holiday.

"Christ is the Anglican form of the Greek word "Christos" which is derived from the Hebrew word "Messiah." Since Christ is synonymous with Messiah, it is logical that if we want to know the meaning of the word Christ then we need to know the definition of the word Messiah."

Christ does not mean Jesus .


Truth is inflammatory ? Fact is fact . Simple and plain . Jesus the Christ had not one thing to do with "christmas" . It was never practiced by the jewish nation at that time nor did he command his apostles to adhere to such a false man made teaching .

I marvel at the fact you label us with such a term as inflammatory. I never once put down the Roman Catholic church . Check your history and you will find out how the church merged the practice of sun woship with their agenda.

Neither am I here to argue faith but simply to tell the facts about Christmas. Just because a word has the name christ in it does not make it approved . You could merge many things with the name and call it so and so .

[Free Thinker]

I love Christmas, too!!! I don't find it hipocritical to celebrate it, and when DD is older I will explain that there are a host of other holidays celebrated. I am trying to come up w/ some good traditions to start this year, since DD is 18 months old, and will probably know what is going on this time around! I do put up a tree, and do the gifts, not sure on Santa, but we will get our pics made w/ him I think I might go ahead and tell her it's makebelieve when she can understand what that means. I think it will be neat to pick different ways to celebrate when the kids are older. Mostly, we think of the food, and time w/ families and presents! I hope to also instill the value of thankfulness and giving that is shown in abundance this time of year. I don't limit what I buy DD, but since she is the only grandchild and greatgrandchild, it got out of hand last year. This year I am getting her a craft table as her big gift, and I ordered some Melissa and Doug toys a while back that I think she will enjoy playing with. Family gets her SO much! I am hoping that they ask me what to get, so I can tell them craft supplies, or such. I'm not sure how to bring it up if they don't ask

[lavendermama]

This is a funny debate, because I guess I am one of those "hardcore" Christians who at times has wondered exactly why I celebrate it. The pagans are wondering if they should celebrate it, some Christians are wondering if they should..just strikes me as funny
I say if you want to celebrate Christmas celebrate Christmas.
BTW, I have heard that Jesus was probably born in late summer, early fall-around the time of Feast of Tabernacles. Anyone else hear this?

[Meiri]

The word Christmas comes from Christ's Mass.

The name of the holy day inaugurated by the RC church back in the 400's is actually "The Feast of the Nativity". But Christmas is shorter to say.

Of course Christmas was never celebrated by the Jews. They have their holidays just as all the peoples 2000 years ago had theirs. Why would they adopt anyone else's holy day? Why would they adopt a holy day on a date co-opted to celebrate a messiah in whom they do not beleive? What does that have to do with this discussion?

The Church chose the date to celebrate the fact (in their belief) of Jesus's birth to coincide with a time during which others were already celebrating. You make converts more easily if you fit your religion into a framework they already understand. Celebrating the birth of the sun was easily changed into celebrating the birth of the son (thank-you Star Trek), not to mention that other virgin-birth dying and rising Gods' births were celebrated at that time of year.

I will honor the longest night, or maybe the sunrise after it! by lighting candles and the tree, and then on the 25th we'll see what Santa brought us.

I'm getting more to seeing some of these holidays as seasons rather than A day.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

I think, NM, that you will find that Jesus was born in September/October... god always having meaning in everything...{and when shepherds might be out on the hills gurding sheep and why} it makes more sense to have Jesus conceived on 25th December which is the 'purification of the temple" and born on Israel's "Day of Atonement"..... )

Most real christians I know (with the exception of Nursing Mother) don't "celebrate" Christmas, for reasons mentioned by other people above.

I can appreciate the fact that for many people, traditions, and such like give real meaning to their lives. From my point of view, I just wish the "church" had kept their big nose out of it, and left all the pagan festivals to stand for what they are.

So for us, there is no hypocrisy, since it never has been relevant to us.

[Meiri]

Most real christians I know (with the exception of Nursing Mother) don't "celebrate" Christmas, for reasons mentioned by other people above.

Ummmmm, the Roman Catholic Church is the largest organized Christian denomination on the planet, over 1 billion strong according to DH's memory. They are real Christians. They celebrate Christmas, no quotation marks needed.

Or am I misreading that statement somehow?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by Meiri

Ummmmm, the Roman Catholic Church is the largest organized Christian denomination on the planet, over 1 billion strong according to DH's memory. They are real Christians. They celebrate Christmas, no quotation marks needed.

Or am I misreading that statement somehow?

Those who know me well, know that I divide Christianity into two sections, amongst which there is considerable overlap.

The first is churchianity, and amongst "churchianity" you will find "christians". But not everyone who attends "churchianity" will be a christian. Just because someone goes by a denominational label, doesn't mean that they are really christians. It might just mean they were born into it, and its tradition, but not something they really adhere to. And Jesus, isn't to them, someone with whom they have a personal relationship.

There are some real christians I know who still chose to celebrate Christmas, but the "christians" that I mix with, don't.

Because for them, and for us, we can't find a good reason for us to do so. The reasons that the Churchian Powers That Be, decided to "make" Christmas, christmas and Easter, Easter, never held water to me, or the people that I know.

christmas and easter should revert to their pagan names, and "christians" should really work out what they want to celebrate, why, and keep commerciality out of it.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Just wanted to add, in terms of defining a real Christian, there is a big difference between believing that Jesus is the son of God, and belonging to Jesus.

The two are not synonymous.

[Meiri]

I see.

When I meet someone and they tell me that they are Christian, I take their word for it. Their actions will tell me if they are the kind of person who puts more importance on Dogma or on people: letter of law judgementalism versus loving actions as Jesus would Do.

Either way, I don't take it upon myself to declare that some are real and some are " ". Not my call. Not yours either IMO.

Come to think on it, I find the same applies to any other religion too.

[lab]

Originally Posted by sevenkids

I We spend a week baking cookies and cakes, making mulled wine, eggnog and spiced apple cider for gifts. I have my dried fruits soaking in wine in anticipation of baking my Jamaican style fruit cakes. Everything on our tree is edible, except the lights.......we bake and decorate cookies and wrap them in plastic wrap and tie them with ribbons. We string cranberries and popcorn garlands. We hang candy canes. We make popcorn balls and wrap them in red, green and gold cellophane and tie them on with ribbons.
I love getting together with family and friends, sharing food, drink and laughter.
We walk to midnight mass at the R.C. church, and then walk home under the winter stars, filled with peace and joy. Oh, the carols are so beautiful! What a message of hope and love!
We make tons of food, and we share into paper plates nicely wrapped with foil complete dinners, and then drive dwn to the marina and share our food with the homeless. We collect clothing and blankets and distribute them with the food.
We go to every party we can, not out of a feeling of obligation, but because we love the people there.
I don't feel a bit guilty at all. Why should anyone feel guilty celebrating love and giving?

I wanna come to YOUR house for Christmas! What a beautiful picture you painted!

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by Meiri

I see.

When I meet someone and they tell me that they are Christian, I take their word for it. Their actions will tell me if they are the kind of person who puts more importance on Dogma or on people: letter of law judgementalism versus loving actions as Jesus would Do.

Either way, I don't take it upon myself to declare that some are real and some are " ". Not my call. Not yours either IMO.

Come to think on it, I find the same applies to any other religion too.

It is my call, and yours too. You admitted as much above, by reference to people actions.

The Bible doesn't ask you to take their word for it. Any more than you should take Bush's word for it, that he is a Christian.

The Bible is very specific, that all claims should be "tested". The ultimate "test" though, is that "by their fruits you shall know them" as you yourself said.

If their actions don't match their words, then their words are meaningless.

Therefore, it is my "call" to "know" in my own head, if someone is a fraud or not. Were I to accept everyone's word for it, I would have been drowned in a load of hogswash years ago.

[Meiri]

It is my call, and yours too. You admitted as much above, by reference to people actions.

It's their actions that tell me if that person is loving or judgmental. That has nothing to do with their being Christian or not. If someone says he/she is Christian, I take their word for it that they are. If someone tells me they are Jewish or Muslim or whatever form of Pagan, I take their word for it that that is what they are and what they believe. That has nothing to do with their actions telling me whether they are a loving person or a judgmental one.

The Bible doesn't ask you to take their word for it. Any more than you should take Bush's word for it, that he is a Christian.

I couldn't care less what the Bible says. Bush says he's a Christian. I believe him. I can see by his actions though......

The Bible is very specific, that all claims should be "tested". The ultimate "test" though, is that "by their fruits you shall know them" as you yourself said.

While I couldn't care less what the Bible says, there are some points on which the writers got things correct.

If their actions don't match their words, then their words are meaningless.

Exactly

Therefore, it is my "call" to "know" in my own head, if someone is a fraud or not. Were I to accept everyone's word for it, I would have been drowned in a load of hogswash years ago.

I don't challenge someone's religious self-label because that's irrelevent. Any religion can be used to bolster a person's ability to be good, a blessing on the world, helpful, loving, caring, etc. Any religion can also be used to bolster a person's ability to be hateful and judgemental, legalistic, bigotted, etc. Since the religious label is meaningless, I don't take it to mean anything beyond that the person follows a particular religious mythology or another. Therefor, why argue with them, or declare them to not be a real Christian, Jew, Muslim, Pagan, etc? They are all real.

[CryPixie83]

Originally Posted by kamilla626

So...
Is anyone else in a similar situation - celebrating only the secular aspects of Christmas, without being truly Christian? Do you feel guilty or weird about it? Have you added or eliminated parts of "traditional" Christmas to better suit your own beliefs?

Well, my family is made up of various paths. My granny is Christian, my fiance is agnostic, his family is pretty much not religious while claiming Christianity (not practising in any way), my best friend and her family are Jewish & my mom, my coven, numerous friends and myself are Pagan. So I like to think we celebrate the season

In my house however we celebrate Yule which focuses on nature as well as deity. We have trees, presents, songs, the holly king, stags, feasting, etc. Around more mainstream folk I use "Christmas" when I mean Yule simply for the sake of keeping my faith private (or if i don't particularly feel like explaining or debating).

I think of Christmas as more of a traditional, family oriented holiday rather than a religious one.