Miserable Failure, going back to Poo.

[Baby Hopes]

I tried it. No-pooing. Bought a huge box of BS, a king size jar of ACV and commited myself to no-poo. I even read the million page thread that's on here from ages ago... just so that I would have a clue as to how no-pooing actually works.

The first night I committed to no-pooing my hair hadn't been shampooed/washed since two days prior. (That is not normal for me. I have mouse/brown hair that is STRAIGHT and easily prone to overgreasing if not washed daily.) I made a paste out of, I swear, 5 tablespoons of BS and tried to massage it onto my dry scalp. I then wrapped my hair and sat for exactly ten minutes. At the end of the ten minutes my 9 month old daughter and incredulous husband watched as I unwrapped my now-straw hair. Clumps of BS falling all over the floor.

Dh proclaimed it a failure and announced I had "Killed" my hair. I am not so sure that he was wrong. That first night I didn't rince with ACV. I rinsed with *gasp* white vinager. (It wasn't until the next day that I bought the ACV.)

By the next morning my hair felt horrid. VERY dry and brittle. In desperation I rubbed a bit of olive oil to on my scalp and tried to brush it through with my boar bristle brush. I tried to rinse out my, now clumped, hair with hot water. Hoping the Olive Oil would wash away without soap.

Frantic and scared, because my hair now felt like grease, I applied a ACV rince with warm water and went to bed.

Day three my hair felt greasy, heavy, muddy, dirty, dingy, &NOT-shiney. (Get the picture) Even though most no-poo sites that I read suggested not washing every day I did go ahead and try the BS/ACV again that night. This time I combined a Tablespoon of BS with a cup of HOT water to wash my scalp. Rinsing with ACV.

Day four my hair still felt like crud.

Day five... I grabbed my Pantene and washed my hair. Chemicals be danged.

Today is day six. All I've done is rince with ACV. Although I have my doubts that applying acidity to my hair without a base is a good idea.

Tomorrow I plan on washing with Pantene again.

HELP.

I either need someone to come out and say: "This is how you need to be doing this." (Keeping in mind my fine/thick/brown/straight/grease-prone hair.) OR will someone please point me in the direction of shampoo that is less 'bad' for my hair than standard store brands. a.k.a. Whatever's on sale.

[LaffNowCryLater]

I've never tried going no poo before, but maybe you could at least try a natural shampoo like Burt's Bees, JASON, or Weleda to avoid the chemicals.

[alexisyael]

OK, here's your problems:

day one -- a) you do not need that much b/s! Just two tablespoons should do it... and less if you have short hair. b) don't leave the b/s in for more than a minute (even then, I think most people just put it on, rub it in a little, and rinse it out immediately.)

Which vinegar you use shouldn't be a problem. It sounds like you used way too much olive oil... I've never used that, b/c I also have oily straight hair.

Two tablespoons with enough water to make it a paste is the formula most people go by.

That said, I gave up no poo, too. It was getting to be too much of a hassle, and I broke down and bought a really nice natural shampoo. But I may go back to no poo in the winter, when my hair is less greasy...

[Viriditas]

I have been no-pooing for 10 days, and I have hair very similar to yours: VERY straight, fine, light brown. I'll admit that it's not at it's best right now (I washed-more details later-5 days ago) but it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. From what I understand, you need to go through a few weeks of slightly yucky hair before it gets it's natural balance back. I'll tell you what I've been doing...maybe it will help.

I used to shampoo my hair every day. Like you, if I missed a day it would feel really greasy and yucky. When I moved to England I was in a house without a shower (how did I ever survive!) and found I didn't have time to have a bath every single day. I had to live with greasy hair every other day for awhile, and to my suprise after a few weeks of washing every other day (occasionally every third day) my hair didn't get greasy anymore!

This was my pattern from 2 years ago until ten days ago. I stopped washing my hair, instead massaging my scalp with my fingers and running them through my hair every day in the shower to get the dirt out and hopefully rinse off or at least help redistribute some of the excess oil. It was okay for a couple of days, started getting greasy after 3, and I ignored it and brushed my hair really well (I haven't been able to find my natural bristle brush yet, it would probably help) and pulled it back for a couple of days.

On day 5 I cleaned my hair. I used the recipe for "no-poo" balls that someone posted on that big long thread (apologies- I forget who). It's basically: baking soda, water, honey, & a few drops of lavendar eo rolled into balls and let to dry for a couple of days. I had to use a couple of balls because I made them too small. I just got it wet, smeared it into my scalp, worked it into my hair as best as I could, and let it sit there for about 5 minutes while I did the rest of my showering. I then rinsed it out and did a rinse with diluted acv.

My hair was REALLY squeaky, and a bit dry but not too bad. It stayed really clean for 2 more days and now it's getting kinda oily again, but not horribly so. It has been almost 5 days since I cleaned my hair and I will probably do it again tomorrow or the next day if I can hold out.

I think perhaps you are expecting too much to happen too soon. Your hair is probably in shock from going straight from shampoo to something completely different, and lots of it. I'm by no means an expert on this, but my suggestion would be to go at it slowly and not to expect your hair to be gorgeous right away. I don't think it's a good idea to wash your hair so often (with shampoo or bs/acv). Maybe if you want to start gradually you could go from shampooing daily to every other day. I promise your hair will not keep getting greasy after a few weeks! Then maybe you could try switching back to no-poo and your hair would take it a little better. It also helps if you scrub your scalp well with your hands and rinse your hair with just water on the days you don't clean it.

And I would NOT recommend rubbing olive oil into your scalp. Maybe on the ends only if they're dry. That would make my scalp super disgusting!

Just some ideas. Good luck!

[girlndocs]

Whew!

I made a paste out of, I swear, 5 tablespoons of BS and tried to massage it onto my dry scalp. I then wrapped my hair and sat for exactly ten minutes.

Ow. Ow. *wince* If I did that, my hair would be breaking off in shreds, I swear it would. I don't know of anyone who uses that much baking soda, OR puts in on dry hair. No wonder your hair was like straw! I also, personally, have never had to leave the BS on for any amount of time.

That first night I didn't rince with ACV. I rinsed with *gasp* white vinager.

:LOL *gasp* indeed. I started with white vinegar. It worked OK. I use ACV now, because I heard that colorwise it enhances red tones in blond hair. Next time I wash I think I'll try red wine vinegar and see what that does.

How much vinegar did you use? One would think that vinegar would be a drying agent, but if I use too much my hair is lank, greasy and overconditioned.

In desperation I rubbed a bit of olive oil to on my scalp and tried to brush it through with my boar bristle brush.

I personally find olive oil to be far too heavy for my hair; I prefer a teeny, tiny bit of coconut or jojoba. We're talking about barely enough to make my palms a little glossy. Then I use it *only* on the hair below my chin level. The scalp's job is to keep the rest moist; hair towards the ends is what generally needs extra protection from oils.

HELP.

OK. Breathe deeply :LOL First of all, it's only hair, and it's not even anything that's going to affect your hair permanently. It'll be fine, even if you end up still deciding to go back to shampoo. There's no harm in a little tweaking and experimentation.

Here, FWIW, is my personal method for no-pooing. I'd given up on the baking soda & vinegar, but recently tried it a little differently, and I'm happy again. I'll probably have to change again sometime in the future, more than once, depending on all kinds of factors. Be fluid. Be Zen. Move like water. :LOL

Anyway:

4 Tbsp baking soda
honey
mix to a paste like slightly thin frosting
add a few teaspoons boiling water, stir well, till like thin gravy (it should fizz & bubble when the hot water is added)

Comb out all tangles. Generously oil last 2" of hair (that's generously, not soaking).
Hop in shower, wet hair well, squeeze excess water from hair.
Apply BS/honey mixture with squirt bottle or small cup, around hairline, down part, on as much of scalp as possible. Gently work in with fingers, rinse out well, squeeze excess water from hair.

Squirt 1 tablespoon vinegar in a pint jar. Fill jar to top with water from showerhead. Pour over head & hair (I wrap my fist around the very ends of my hair, holding them out of the way of the vinegar, as they're fragile). Rinse *very well*, squeeze out excess water.

Finish with a chamomile rinse which is left in: 2 tablespoons chamomile to a pint of boiling distilled water, left to steep at least 4 hours (I make mine the night before). You could use rosemary, lavender, hibiscus, nettle or nothing at all. A final rinse of distilled water makes my hair softer.

After hair is air-dried, smooth 1 or 2 drops of jojoba oil or a tiny speck of coconut oil onto hair below chin level, concentrating on very ends.

Now that's MY routine, and as I said, I tweak it periodically and sometimes take a break from it to Co wash depending on what my hair & scalp seem to want. When I started no-pooing, I crashed from a once-every-other-day to a once-a-week wash schedule, so I experienced greasiness for a while. You could no-poo as often as you seem to need it. Everyone's ingredients, method and schedule are different, so have patience, be flexible.

Pantene, by the way, contains some of the very harshest detergents used in shampoo. Alternatives to using petro-detergent shampoos include, as already mentioned, natural soap-based shampoos or shampoo bars (these work best if you have soft water), or conditioner-only washing, which gets fairly expensive using natural conditioners. You can also wash with Indian herbs like shikakai, amla, & bringhraj, or with natural clay, and I also have heard of a cleanser involving infusion of birch leaves.

Hope this helps! Good luck and happy washing!

[KellyB]

And another method...this is what works for me, although I'm new at it...but my hair is very fine, straight, long, and used to be super greasy after 24 hours...

Wait till your hair's naturally really greasy again in a few days...
In the shower or bath, get your hair wet....
Make a watery solution of bs and water (you can use your cupped hand, a cup of some sort, but I use a toy watering can)....
Pour a nice bit on your scalp....
Thoroughly massage your scalp well with your fingertips, especially the top of your head, around your face, and your hairline by your neck. Plan on this taking a little while to be done well. I took about 10 minutes the first time......
Rinse....
Pour the rest on your scalp (or make a new batch, if you need to)
Massage your scalp again and rinse.
Use ACV if you want then. I haven't had to do this so far, so I really don't know anything about it.
Report back here after...this method has worked really well for me so far...my ends have been a little crunchy, but not bad by any means.
I'm thinking of putting a little olive oil on my hairbrush to use on the ends if it gets worse...but I really don't even forsee that being necessary. I'm slowly going longer and longer between needing to even use bs...(every 3 days now) and useing less and less bs when I do...
The main thing to remember is: it's only around your scalp that really needs to be cleaned! Leave the rest of your hair alone....
And make sure you rinse really well...
Good luck!

[stafl]

cool! a new no-poo thread!

everyone does it a little differently. I had to wean myself gradually from using shampoo. I would alternate bs/vinegar and using shampoo, skipping a day or two in between, those first few weeks. After that first week, the shampoo was really making me feel itchy and chemically and I started using DD's natural shampoo instead, but just once a week.

what I do:
I take a cupfull of the hottest water I can get from the tap and mix in about three tbsp baking soda (I have very long, very thick hair). I know it's hot enough if it fizzes.
then I get in the shower and wet my hair. I pour the bs solution over my head and really scrub it into my scalp. Let it sit while I wash the rest of myself. Then rinse it out really well.
Then, I take just a tiny drop of redwine vinegar and mix in the same cup full of clean water and pour that over my head. Rinse again, really really well. Too much vinegar makes my hair greasy. Not enough makes my hair crazy and frizzy and dry.

[Baby Hopes]

You know, I was blaming my limp/crud hair on the BS and now I wonder if maybe it wasn't the vinagers fault? I was using a LOT of vinager. Especially compared to a spoonfull in a cup of water. It never occured to me to dilute the vinager. Ack. (of course I am not sure that the Olive Oil ever really got rinsed out until I Pantened my scalp.)

Learn something new each day.

Today would be two days since my last hair wash (Pantene ) and I am going to wash it again. I think starting gradually is the only thing that is going to make this work for me. Going 100% no-poo outright not only didn't work (never mind my crazy no-poo 'routine') but I think it was scaring my husband. He's a normally very tolerant person, and loves me for my quirkiness... but even HE thought I was nutso for doing what I did to my hair. lol.

I am going to see if I can pick up some EO's today, and maybe some coconut oil. I do have red wine vinager in my house... Might try that instead of ACV, just to spice things up. Anyone have any suggestions for websites or German stores that offer more natural body products? (Right now I am in Germany supporting my hubby whose stationed here. Our base does NOT offer a great selection of natural products.)

Oh, and a question about the chemamile rinse. Is that from tea? Or some other source?

Thank you everyone for your No-Poo regimes. I definately needed a wholistic view of how folks with similar hair handled no-poo.

[mamaBlue]

I have been using Terressentials hair wash for about 4 months. I love it. Its not a shampoo, its like wet clay. To moisturize my hair and scalp, I use Weleda Rosemary Hair Oil. I am very happy with the results. Both items score very very well in the EWG report.

[SMPH]

I was shampoo free for 6 months. My hair was fine and dry so I thought it would help. And it did. I started using shampoo again for the heck of it and to see if it really was in any better shape. These days I usually wash every 3 days and my hiar isn't as dry as it was before going no poo. Finding a more natural solution is on my to do list along with 546 other things so it gets lost in the shuffle. The terresentials look intereseting. Can I find them locally or just on-line?

Anyway, my no poo routine was pretty simple. I put a few tablespoons of BS in boiling water (maybe a cup)and shook. I put that in a bottle in the shower. It would seperate back out but I just shook real good before using. I massaged it in real good (apparentlu I like that phrase) and rinsed. I put a few tablespoons of ACV in a similiar bottle with water (sorry...no exact measurements as I just eyeballed) and rinsed.

That was it. Worked pretty well for 6 months. I'll probably go back to it or something simliar soon.

I only wash Aiden's hair once a week or so and I wash it with Dr B's lavender soap. I hope I can help him not have hair "problems" later.

[girlndocs]

It's the same chamomile that tea is made from, yes. I buy it loose by the ounce, because it's cheaper that way, but 3 or 4 chamomile teabags would probably be equivalent. My hair's just between brown & blonde and over time, the chamomile makes beautiful subtle highlights. It makes my hair shiny and soft and smells good, too.

[Irishmommy]

What is the difference in all the vinegars? I did the bs and vinegar today for the first time, and used regular white vinegar. My only other option was balsamic?

[KellyandKatie]

going on one week now...

Well, I have been no pooing for one week now, and no poos for my one year old for two weeks now.(my dh just walked in and saw what I was typing- he is cracking up about what no pooing stands for) ANYWAY! My DD does not get anything on her head at all but water-- and her hair is soo sooo sooooo curly and cute now! I thought it was cute before, but now she has these curls just springing up everywere-- BUT on her little scalp she STILL has these little scaley cruds! ( the reason I looked into no pooing in the 1st place)
As for me and no pooing- with natural lighter highlights (sun damage probably) it is thick and gets greasy pretty easy. The ends are damaged and dry already as I need a trim. BUT here is what I did, I stopped pooing (cheap Vo5 junk) waited one day, then took a jar with BS in it and added water, rubbed that in and rinsed and then deluted ACV .. anyway I did not empty the jars but in the next day just added more water so it getting more and more deluted each day. My hair and scalp feels great, smells good and is very managable. I am waiting for the horror stories about grease to happen....
(my DH is still making fun of me about the name- he has never seen me on forums before so he thinks all the acronyms are funny too - what a dweeb he is! ) But he also agrees that my hair looks and feels great so he will start no pooing as well.
TOday I tried an egg. It was funny, let it set in a cup all stirred up to get at room temp. I was goingt o rise with leamon juice... I got in the tub with DD and wentto dump the egg in my hair, well it just slid all over my face - My one year old cracked up she thought I was too funny with egg all over me, so, needless to say there was not any left to massage in my hair. Oh well, maybe next week I will get it down.
I am having fun with this so far... I will look for the old forum for more tips.
Thanks!
Kelly S

[Pattyla]

I have been no pooing for nearly 3 months.

I mixed up an old shampoo bottle with equal parts bs and honey and some water (It was probably hot when I started) I use this mixture to wash my hair once every 5-7 days and the rest of my body daily. I do a acv rinse daily. I haven't tried any other vinegars because I like the acv. I use 1-2 tbsp acv in a big cup of water. I make it stronger if my hair seems extra greasy and really light on the days that I wash.

I used to use more bs but it seemed to be too drying so I cut way back on that and just apply the dilution to my scalp now. I do miss suds but other than that I love this new routine. In face my DH has just been converted to it as well!!!

The last time I used any soap on dd was 3 months ago as well. I do give her hair a vinegar rinse from time to time but other than that I just leave her alone. She smells and looks great!

[Baby Hopes]

I thought I'd update. October 16th was the first day of my No-Poo trial. (Although we all witnessed my break down mid-stride with a Pantene wash.) With everyone's help I have balanced my regime and am now happily poo-free! I am aiming for an every other day wash. My eventual goal is to only use the BS once a week.

Did I mention how pleasantly suprised I am by how nice my hair feels? Since getting my ratios right I haven't had a greasy day yet! Well, nothing compared to the olive oil/ACV mess I had early on. :LOL

DD has always been relatively poo free. I am curious, though, if BS and ACV would be a bit harsh for her? What do ya'll do for little ones?

Still haven't done the Chamomile. Just need to get my butt in gear and get some made. Maybe tomorrow?

[girlndocs]

Yay! So glad you found a happy medium!

I'm always all over this forum yapping about how the only thing I use on my kids is water. I know there's some other folks here who're water-only too. Really, it gets the dirt off fine, and even my 5-yo didn't have any greasy period when I quit washing his hair. I wrote a long post about that in a recent thread KellyandKatie started about baby shampoo.

I also know there's people here who BS & ACV their kids' hair. Seems like each of them worked out their own way to keep it out of the little ones' eyes. I won't talk about that though because I don't do it, so I have no experience.

KellyandKatie, I wouldn't panic about the scale if it doesn't seem to be itching her or anything. It might just need time to clear up. Have you tried massaging in oil, letting it sit for a while & then maybe gently picking the crud off with your fingernail? Don't know how well your babe would put up with that -- dd didn't like it one bit when I tried it on her.

I washed my hair again on Saturday, as usual, but I had dd in the shower with me, she decided she was NOT into the whole water thing that day & was freaking out, *and* I was behind schedule to get ready to leave for our big yearly Bradley reunion by the time DH came home from work, so I skipped the baking soda & vinegar. What did I grab instead? Our cat shampoo Yes, on purpose. The ingredients are water, coconut oil soap, organic protein, jojoba oil, aloe vera & vitamin E, so I thought hmmm, why not? It was pretty good too, very gentle, no funky smells. The brand is "Dr Goodpet", if anybody happens to be in the market for a mild natural shampoo :

[PikkuMyy]

Hooray! I'm glad you found a balance. I have chin-length fine, tends-to-be-greasy brown hair. I went no-poo months ago and haven't looked back since. I wash my hair about 4-5 times a week. I have two used plastic shampoo bottles - one with acv and one with baking soda - I filled it about 1/3 full, then added water and shook. I squirt maybe 2 TB of BS in my hand and rub it in my VERY WET hair for a minute before rinsing out. Then I squirt another tablespoon of ACV over my scalp while it's under the water and rinse it out.

That's it!

[KellyandKatie]

baby's hair

thats awesome that there are so many that this is working for!
As far as my Katies scaley scalp- I used to think it was called cradle 'crap" till my grandma corrected me that it was called cradle cap... anyway- it is still there I can hardly see it, most people do not becuase she has such pretty blong curls covering her head so nicely! I did try oil --- BUT I used baby petroleum oil- I just just read about that junk and threw away the bottle- I am going to try olive oil now, I have jojoba oil on my wish list but dont own any yet. I will keep you posted how a natural oil works,
thanks!
Kelly S

OH OH OH I got DH to try my no poo routine tonight! Hee hee

[KellyandKatie]

oops sorry- I forgot to answer - I use just water on Katie and I think her hair looks great and smells great too!
Kelly S