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TLC- Family of 15 Kids -WOW!!!!! - Page 4

post #61 of 176
That's appropriate for young children but I personally want my children to be and have more than me. That would include reading material.

To limit the books an emerging adult can read to that which a parent (a father who is likely too busy to read too many books) can read is, ahem, extremely limiting to the emerging adult.

Debra Baker

I'm editing to add an other link to another article making the rounds amongst the Patriarchal types.

http://www.patriarchspath.org/daught...gdaughter.html
post #62 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka Falls
People teach their kids what they value. Shocking stuff! I'm glad none of us are doing that.
LOL, yea imagine if we were doing that Don't many of us AP/NFL parents often feel a little "outside" and counter culture? As I said earlier, I do not share the religious convictions of the Dugger family, but I do share many other things with them. I have taught my kids the things that I value, whether my neighbor agrees with them or not.

It isn't hard to find something in any family that you don't agree with or that wouldn't work for your family. So what? For example, I generally do not care for schools (K-12) and my children are unschoolers. I encourage the kids to go to college if they wish, but I do not push them. I don't care how they wear their hair, and in fact they often dye it. They stay up late and watch TV. To many families these things are not okay. To many of my friends these things are not okay for their children, and yet we respect each other for the things we have in common like womanhood, motherhood, and the challenges and rewards of being wives or partners. We don't worry about hair though.

Don't we all live according to the way we feel is right? Should the Dugger Mama (I cannot recall her first name right now) just decide that her faith and wardrobe, and her marriage all need to be reworked because some people find her outdated and un hip? Sorry I am rambling now, but it's only in an effort to understand this thread.
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post #63 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom
Ha! No.

But it's pulled back and under a covering, so I suppose I would be up for some jabs if *I* were on tv, too.

:
I'm assuming you mean lke a religious covering, or women who where their hair covered for religious reasons, I don't think anyone would make fun of that. (shouldn't not woulnd't).don't worry about it

never mind the rest as these cramps are making me kinda snarky.
post #64 of 176
delurking to comment that the whole environmetnal factor has not been mentioned....


that's a lot of resources, folks, in an already overpopulated world.

post #65 of 176
Well, I'm glad a few people do see my point. THat's encouraging.

Well, I'm off to hypershelter my son and overpopulate the world! All while listening to Dr. Laura!













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post #66 of 176
ITA DB...Having been extremely sheltered in an ultra conservative Christian family, I had no clue of the world in which I lived when I started college. People took advantage of me and I was hurt many times because I was so naieve.

Of course it's okay to believe in patriarchy and the biblical principle that the man is the head of the household (!), but the best choice is an INFORMED choice. These girls (and boys, actually) don't have a choice because they don't know what's out there. Even going to a Christian school in their town would help break them out of their little bubble.
post #67 of 176
I'm sorry...I can't buy the victim points.

I was very sheltered. And, forbidden to do many things, even once I left my parent's home! But, I wasn't closeminded enough to think that how we did it in our home was the only way to do things.

Sure, the best choice is an informed choice. But, we'd never do anything if we needed all the information in order to feel we were making a truly informed choice. I mean, experience teaches one lots of things information will never be able to divulge.

Now, maybe those girls won't have lots of experiences we think are good or important. But, that doesn't mean their lives are less enjoyable, less meaningful, or pitiable.

Some people don't do well with too many choices or information. Hell...lots of ppl don't. Those girls could be happy if they were given a different type of life to lead, sure. But, what matters most is that they are happy already. Happiness does not come from living a certain kind of life. Happiness is not guaranteed.

Happiness comes from within. You thinking someone is suffering doesn't make it so.
post #68 of 176
Before I say anything, I should point out I havent' read all the other posts (rarely get a chance to do that anymore because DD doesn't like me to be on the 'puter too much.)

Anyway, I also thought the family seemed a little cult-ish, which I admittedly think is a bit judgemental and harsh of me. I guess if they were Amish or something, it wouldn't bother me that they are the way they are, and that is unfair.

That said, I was REALLY bothered that the one little girl was excited about the new house because she could not wait for there to be a bigger laundry room so she could get the laundry done faster. WTF?

But to each his own...I guess.

And I wanted to add that having 15 kids seems like it would be pretty hard on the body....
post #69 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggiesMom
That said, I was REALLY bothered that the one little girl was excited about the new house because she could not wait for there to be a bigger laundry room so she could get the laundry done faster. WTF?
...
Someone else mentioned that way back there (sorry, can't recall who it was). I don't understand why this is an issue. I mean I'd welcome a bigger laundry room or better washer and dryer to get my stuff done faster too, and there are only 4 people in my family. Is it because she is a kid thinking about doing laundry? My kids do laundry. They are not forced to, but they understand that helping out helps everyone and is respectful. In a family of 15 kids do you think it is wrong for the kids to pitch in and help with the laundry?

I know this is alot of questions that might sound snarky, but I honestly don't mean them that way. It's just how I get it all out of my brain LOL. I am willing to bet that there are other things the kid was excited about regarding the bigger home. If they had talked to her more, or aired more (possibly?) of what she said there could have been lots of things she was into about it. A few of them said "More space" and more bathrooms. I'd be excited about that if I was them too
post #70 of 176
But they aren't 'chipping in' -- They are completely responsible for laundry, cooking, and cleaning. Also the older brothers are building a house (while they're homeschooling?).
post #71 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by chersolly
But they aren't 'chipping in' -- They are completely responsible for laundry, cooking, and cleaning. Also the older brothers are building a house (while they're homeschooling?).
I do think the mom does laundry and cooking. She talked about a recipe she would make if they were in a hurry, and about how their laundry room worked (each kid has a tub,etc). I might have understood it differently, but it looked like everyone did what they could do to keep total utter chaos from happening... and they looked happy doing it.

As for the older brothers building a house while homeschooling that is absolutely TERRIFIC! Seriously, speaking as a homeschooling (unschooling) mama that sort of thing is exactly why many of us choose to homeschool. We value hands on stuff. We value learning by doing and making. Those boys have built a house (well, helped build it but still) that will house their family for years to come. What a sense of accomplishment and pride they must feel from completing that. The memories made will likely not ever be forgotten. They didn't just have to sit at the table and read about architecture, or practice math, or get a lesson on electricity... they went and did it instead
post #72 of 176
Awesome post, Chaka! We can all create our own happiness, regardless of our circumstances.
post #73 of 176
Quote:
How does she view her parents? Not as if they were her assistants in helping her to somehow be all she can for herself, the society, or even the body of Christ. Rather, she sees herself as God's gift to them, to help them in their work for the Lord.
the above is from Debra Baker's link

Wow, that's sad. I read it wrong at first, because I want my daughters to view us as their assistants to helping them be all they can be for themselves, their families, society, and God. I thought the article was agreeing with me, but it took less than half a sentence to run FAR away from my goals!
post #74 of 176
Okay, I saw this when it aired last month. The things that struck me as very odd and patriarchal were the J-names, and the way the girls were all dressed in clothing to accentuate their (can't remember her word for it but basically) God-given facial features. All the girls had identical un-cut hair and frilly-tent dresses, as did the mother (I can't imagine anything more strange than a grown woman dressing like a 3 year old).

I noticed the boys also dressed all alike, but in simple polo shirts and pants.

She made all of their clothing. I could not figure out how she could direct that family (as it seemed...she was definitely the COO), homeschool and make all their clothing!

As for the "cult" comments. It seemed to me, based upon the show, that they made their own "church" with another family. My guess is some type of Fundamentalist Christian gathering. I would not think they were in a cult, based upon the true meaning of the word.

I do wonder, though, what the future would hold for their children...girls especially.

I also thought she must have nursed for a short amount of time based upon the consistently-close ages of her children.

They really glossed over the family's income, didn't they? They mentioned real estate, insurance, used car sales...I had to wonder. Clearly they had enough funds to support themselves...did you see that playground at their new humongous home?!

And ICK to the contents of their pantry! I was expecting all made-from-scratch stuff when she takes the time to make all their clothing, but that Tater Tot Casserole?

The wife looked SO young to have all those children...both meaning she must have started young, and how can she possibly STILL look that young? LOL. Good for her, though, on only have 2 c-sections...I was impressed that her 2nd birth was a c-section and she went on to have all those VBACS before #15.

ETA...and of course the whole Jim-Bob-centered nature of things (the children's names, and even check out their website's name) irritated me, personally, but clearly there are those in this country who feel the male is the center of their family's universe.

Did anyone else notice in their family photos that they had the tiny babies in car seats just sitting in cheapy umbrella strollers? That seems really unsafe.
post #75 of 176
Some of the comments here are really judgemental and mean-spirited (not all but some). I doubt any of us would withstand the scrutiny we are heaping on them. I know I wouldn't. You'd no doubt be making fun of me for any number of things.

I find their family facinating and I do think she has to be a pretty hard worker to coordinate everything. I only coordinate 3 kids doing chores and it is a job! After homeschooling and overseeing the family chores, I don't have time to clean and rarely have time to cook- thankfully dh does that.

The idea that not everyone goes to college is really popular in my hs group and after attending a seminar on it, I have to say it makes a lot of sense. I do support giving girls more options than they seem to, but I also think being a sahm is the greatest job in the world. I know I would have loved a better preparation for it while growing up. I got the opposite- a huge amount of pressure to work out of the home, even now.

As for the J names, she said why she did it. She gave the second one a J name to be like the older one, then she kept on doing it because she "didn't want anyone to feel left out". I am in the same predicament. My son wanted his sisters to have T names like him. We managed it but I don't think we could agree on another T name if we had anymore, and I would feel sad for the one without the T name even though it is silly.
post #76 of 176
laralou - you've said it so well!

Quote:
I doubt any of us would withstand the scrutiny we are heaping on them. I know I wouldn't. You'd no doubt be making fun of me for any number of things.
I consider myself and my kids to be quite normal, but I'm sure others could find reasons to make fun of me...

Quote:
I am in the same predicament. My son wanted his sisters to have T names like him. We managed it but I don't think we could agree on another T name if we had anymore, and I would feel sad for the one without the T name even though it is silly.
We are a family of M names for the same reason. We thought it would be fun to give our oldest an M name (H and I both have names that start with an M) and it just kind of snowballed from there. With our third, I said the same exact thing - that I was afraid that she would feel like the oddball if her name started with something else.

One more comment:

Quote:
I also thought she must have nursed for a short amount of time based upon the consistently-close ages of her children.
I exclusively nursed my baby girl, and my period returned at four months, just about the time she started sleeping through the night. I think we all know people that got pregnant while still nursing exclusively...
post #77 of 176
mmace

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmace
I exclusively nursed my baby girl, and my period returned at four months, just about the time she started sleeping through the night. I think we all know people that got pregnant while still nursing exclusively...
I exclusively nursed twins on demand (I was nursing every hour or more including through the night) and still got my period at 12 months on the dot. I felt robbed, but have since learned I was lucky to have 12 months off.
post #78 of 176
As for the J names, I have a friend whose family did something like that, and she is the only one of 10 that they didn't do it for, and she still feels it as an adult. Both my dds and I have names that end in "a", and if we ever had another, the name would have to end in "a" too.

And why can't the girls help build the house - I know as a kid I would have much preferred that than sewing or cooking.
post #79 of 176
I guess I don't see the kids working on the house as such a bad thing.

In this day and age..how many of us had parents who stood beside us and taught a single marketable skill? Because let me tell you, neither one of MY parents did, and in most families I se around me the kids are supposed to go to school, get decent enough grades to stay in volleyball or football or basketball or what have you..get into college, maintain decent grades tehre..and eventually get a 'professional' job somewhere other than pizza hut, sub way, dennies, or the gas station.


My husband and I have what we have because his dad sat beside him when he was a little boy and allowed him to learn how to drive a semi truck , a log truck, an excavator, tractors, you name it. My Fil taught his boys through work and experiance, which is why my husband and I were able to buy a house and land when we were 25 and 26.


I HOPE to GOD above that my children BOTH learn how to use tools, measure , fix thier own cars, deal with their own pliumbing emergancies.I hope to God above that when the washing machine stops working my son or daughter can un plug it, yanl it away fromt he awll, open thier tool box, open the guts of the machine, and in the course of an afternoon, fix the darn thing themselves. Not have to call up some schmoozy repair guy from the phone book and hope he does not charge them enough to have to go out and buy a hwole new machine !

If my daughter is on a date and her date tries to pull any crap about his car not working so they are' stuck' I hope she has the skills and knowledge to open the hood and see for herself. I hope she and her brother can both use a skill saw and a power drill and a screw driver with knowledge and skill.


If I had to pick..I would hope that my Emily is similar to sohj when she is a woman, knwledgable, skilled, capable, and talented. Not like her Mother...at least when it comes to being able to take care of herself or her family.


I sure to hell do not want my daughter to be like me. I have no education, no job skills, no real idea how to do a darn thing for myself past a certain point. I can't hang a danr picture straight. I could not ,meaure a piece of lumber or pipe to save my life. I CANNOT do a thing with my own car. If my tire went flat I would be screwed until someone came and helped me. My job skills are along the lines ofoh..bagger at grocery store, baby sitter, dish washer...all low paid jobs with no future and no way to support a family .




I am envious of the fact that this man had the time to stand with his kids and help them learn how to do these things. I am envious that the Mom in this family manages so well. You should see my house, ask Madrone or ja mama what my house looks like ! It is like a damned bomb has gone off and I spend most of my time running about here with my head spining because I do not know where to start ! The only organized things I own are either still in the box or my dishes in my hutch.Thats it..everything else is in a pile somewhere. i wish to heaven it wasn't. But thats the reality of it.




I realize the kids wear funky clothes, I realize they subscribe to an old fashioned ( and possibly to some evil ) ideal of Father=head of household..but in all honesty..if MY husband was home every night for dinner and we had this well of a system going, I would be THRILLED! Although my hair would not be that floofy and I don't know as I would wear those retro 1980s church dresses. Maybe something similar to..oh, jeans and shirts...but oh well.



I would love totake a "how too" class from this woman. It is too bad she has no access to the internet.




I am also sort of amazed at the reactions of shock that the kids were helping with the house. Don't we, as adults, want capable kids? How are they going to learn that if all they do is read a book? or watch a movie, or play games or play? yes, those things are good...and fun..but when you learn how to do something a lot of the time it means you must get your hands dirty and get into it...Good for this family for teaching their kids that fact ! I don't see much of that our my area or society! peoiple seem to feel sorry for those who do that sort of thing...which astounds me to no end.





ps..about the name thing..my husband and I used to talk about giving each of our kids aname that had to do with the number in which they arrived:


Paul-primary

Secondary child-s name

Third child- T name...aand so on.


We didn't so it, of course, but it was a sort of semi serious discussion at one time.

I think the 'Jinger' is sort of pushing it though.
post #80 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by laralou
Some of the comments here are really judgemental and mean-spirited (not all but some). I doubt any of us would withstand the scrutiny we are heaping on them. I know I wouldn't. You'd no doubt be making fun of me for any number of things.....................The idea that not everyone goes to college is really popular in my hs group and after attending a seminar on it, I have to say it makes a lot of sense. I do support giving girls more options than they seem to, but I also think being a sahm is the greatest job in the world. I know I would have loved a better preparation for it while growing up. I got the opposite- a huge amount of pressure to work out of the home, even now.


I very much agree with what you've said here. It's got to be difficult to sum 17 peoples lives together up in an hour and half (or however long the program was, I cannot recall just now) And when you through in editing well...no one looks great that close up ya know? There's always something that can be picked apart. What has suprised me here is the superficial stuff that people care about. Very odd. Their religion is a big part of their lives clearly, but I just can't see raking them over the coals for that. I've been on that end of things and it's just not fun. No way would I want to do that to another mama.

College is great, and I have told my kids about the cool things to be learned there... if they decide to go. It's not the be all to end all though, and its not for everyone. I know alot have said that these girls cannot choose to go to college, but I am not sure that I think that's true. I am close to a family or two like the Duggers and many of the girls have gone on to a year of college, a college class or two, or have earned a degree.
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