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does your husband look at porn? - Page 6

post #101 of 140
porn is damaging to relationships when one person insists on making others act on their beliefs, spouse or not.

again, I don't see gambling or drinking or drugs as the same thing at all.
post #102 of 140
So we disagree, and that's okay... I am not married to you.
post #103 of 140
oooooh! I am so full of things to say I can't wait for the page to load!!!

"...but to gawk over them in an intimate nature is unacceptable. I personally feel that the need for porn is a cry for help. If one is sexually satisfied, then why would he see the need to find satisfaction in other sexual means? I certainly do not intend on offending anyone who has different opinions. I'm simply stating my opinion on the things that I allow to go on in my home and in my marriage. "

YES! I am in no way trying to be or sound religious, because religion is another thread...AND I am a very conscious person of not giving power to negative thoughts and actions and that evil doesn't really exist in my reality...
BUT - I DO believe that porn is one of the true EVILS of the world. I see what it does to relationships, individuals who are part of the industry or partaking in it, and social-economical structures in countries that would rather SELL their daughters in to sexual slavery than honor them -COME ON!
So as for porn being part of a "healthy" sex life, or "shared" by consenting couples, I cringe. As for those who say here thay they find nothing wrong with it, or that tis okay as long as they teach thier daughters that sex is "special"... do you not think those women in the pictures or on the films may have been told the same, but for whatever reason, they are still in your repetiore with your husband in your bedroom...I just don't know what to say, except that it smells of hipocracy.
I Work for a therapist, and she was just telling me that her friends in the psychology business have never in 30 years seen the need for porn addiction groups or pedophilia or sexual dysfunction in marriage that they have seen SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE INTERNET! Because people can enjoy it in their homes without others knowing they have a penchant for it...
NOW - when my ex-dh was perusing it and I had joined in for a session or two to try to be a good sport and then I got the feeling that it was too much and he thought that my being a good sport meant he could get really crazy and do MORE - I looked into the anti-porn movement. Now some of those sights are very religions, and I had to get through the seawater to find the plankton - but there's some interesting FACTS about what it does in your head...
PORN IS LIKE ANYTHING THAT STIMULATES THE PLEASURE CENTER OF THE BRAIN drugs, gambling, alcohol, etc... and people get very wierd when they start stimulating that area of the brain, they turn on, and they don't WANT to turn off...ever... and it takes MORE and MORE to get turned on at all, much less get off as with porn & sexual stimulation. So what does this mean?
It means that you end up needing more edgy stuff to get off the more you look at it... this brings to the surface any dark things in one's closet, because sexuality is a pandoras box if left unchecked.

sorry to ramble but I just think it is wrong to think of something that powerful in your brain as something that is "no big deal"
like saying you are just a little bit of an alcoholic...? maybe?

Anyway, back to the control thing. Bottom line is that you say something is unacceptable before marriage or anytime during your relationship, agree to it, and he blows it because he didn't think it was that big of a deal... then that shows that mutual agreements in your marriage are not honored, and THAT is an bigger issue than porn.
!
Control can be turned around, too... I wasn't trying to control my dh when I threw away the porn collection for the SECOND TIME - I was trying to save our marriage, told him it had infected our intimacy and we needed to remember why & how to be in love with eachother. I was also trying to protect my 12 yr old from being exposed, and protect dh from himself at that point. That wasn't control....but him making me dress up for him and treating me like one of those porn hoes WAS control.... see?
sorry so long & ventful - but this is still a touchy issue and I don't think anyone has to accept porn because their dh does it...
post #104 of 140
There are so many logical disconnects in that post, I'm sure where to start.

First off you're equating selling children into sexual slavery in other countries to porn made legally in the US by consenting adults. Not the same thing at all.

Second off, not sure where you are getting the idea that people are enjoying porn and then teaching their kids sex is "special" (how we are defining special I'm not sure) I havent' read all 6-7 pages so maybe it's one of those posts.

Third, people have been enjoying porn in the privacy of their own homes for as long as I can remember. This comment "I Work for a therapist, and she was just telling me that her friends in the psychology business have never in 30 years seen the need for porn addiction groups or pedophilia or sexual dysfunction in marriage that they have seen SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE INTERNET! Because people can enjoy it in their homes without others knowing they have a penchant for it..."

is biased and not based in any kind of reality at all. Where do you think people have been enjoying porn prior to the internet? In their homes. You know magazines such as Hustler, Playboy and Penthouse and Playgirl ect have been available for subscription or purchase at stores long long long before the internet. It's not like people were going to public meeting places to view porn prior to the internet. People that wanted it went and bought it or had it delivered and the majority of the time enjoyed it at home.

and again we are back to comparing pedophilia with legal adult pornography. Two different things.

And this whole sexuality is a pandoras box if left unchecked....oy where to start. This is clearly showing that there are some issues with sexuality. It's pure propaganda. First off as long as those participating are consenting adults, what is the problem? We are talking about adults, that are agreeing to whatever acts they do with each other and not bringing in anyone or thing else that isn't consenting. They aren't harming anyone else. If your beliefs keep you from doing certain stuff, don't do it. And no one should coerce you to do it. Other than that, it's none of your business what others do that is between them. Arguments that oooo they might end up doing x.y.z are just scare tactics.

The concept of sexuality as pandoras box is not healthy IMO. It reeks of religious injunction which is fine if you are submitting to it (your choice), but don't expect to make universal value decisions for others based on it, and definately not laws.
post #105 of 140
You would have to have some serious collection of magazines to have all of the images that are available on the internet. Rooms full of it, not something you could hide from your wife. And having a hard copy kinda proves what you're looking at, too. In order to buy magazines, you need to either buy them in a store (where people will see you) or have them delivered, where your postofficer & family members will see it. I think that's where the internet has added a whole new dimension to this issue.
And it IS an issue. It's an addiction. It is often involved with illegal activity. Much the same as drug use, gambling & alcoholism. Women are exploited worldwide, CHILDREN are exploited because there is a call for it, for those that are no longer turned on by the same old, same old.. Subeetaho has experience with this, you really should try & read through the whole thread if you want to go judging people for having a problem with this.
Maybe I'm assuming things, but it sounds like you enjoy pornography. I would never tell you what to do in your home, it is none of my business. To each his own. But if we are not supposed to expect more of our spouses than say, our neighbors, why even get married? What would set that relationship aside from the others? If all along, we both agreed on our values, how we want to live, the examples we want to set, shouldn't we hold the other to that? We're trying to raise a child the best way we know how, we are both in agreement that we want to protect our child from porn. She will see it eventually, but seeing it right here at home sends an entirely different signal than seeing it somewhere else.
post #106 of 140
who says one needs ALL the images available on the internet, or that one would have to hide it from ones wife? It's completely irrelevant if you can get more porn online than at a newstand ect , especially because you know that my point was in reference to your therapists claim

expect more from our spouses than neighbors? I have no idea what that has to do with the discussion, sounds like an excuse to tell your spouse what to do. Better to choose one that has similar views on control, that way there is no conflict. I don't expect more because I'm married to someone, that implies that they owe me the right to tell them what to do. Actually marriage IMO is a choice to share lives and work together, not to sign on as master or servant (unless you're into that and both parties agree )
post #107 of 140
you didn't seem to understand why porn is more of a problem now than prior to the internet... it's more readily available, it's easier to get, could you ever just order kiddie porn by subscription?
If you don't have a problem w/ porn, and you do seem pretty darned defensive about it, GREAT! Do what you want in your home. I don't understand your thoughts on marriage & that is okay. I don't care what your husband does, or my neighbor... what MY husband does has everything to do with me. He is the one I am intimate with. It effects our family. For every action, there is an effect. And this isn't some off the wall concept for my dh, he is STILL in agreement that porn can be really toxic, he admits it is an addiction, it is messed up, it came between us, he would NEVER want dd to know about this.
You got your posters mixed up, I don't have a therapist. I feel like I could use one, and dh is making arrangements to see one... it is an illness.
post #108 of 140
LOL, just because I'm able to argue a side of the argument that you disagree with doesn't make me defensive, but believe what you want.

Bottom line, I don't care what anyone does as long as they are consenting adults.

And yes you aren't the poster that brought up the therapist, that doesn't change that you took what I said out of context which was specifically about the therapist comment.

as far as kiddie porn, it's illegal and not relevant to the discussion because we are discussing legal porn that adults use.
post #109 of 140
I'm done with the semantics.
This thread has gotten so far from the OP.
It is a really sensitive issue w/ some people. I have a family to get to!
Peace
post #110 of 140
Arduinna - you have got to take a chill pill and not be so antagonistic about something very sensitive...

I was replying to beemamas (and others) concern about her husband, and using my own experience and opinion...I don't deserve to be shredded like that and YOU need to learn some compassion!!!

It is not off topic to give backup for why a husband not honoring something that a COUPLE agreed to - is dangerous...

And I really, really resent being treated this way over something SO horrible because you cant take it that some people don't want their husbands doing it and may be worried or upset about the possibilities that pornography brings into a relationship, or into the home for that matter...yes it is easier to hide on the computer - and yes, my son was exposed by just trying to write a report for school! security ya right

If you are fine with it, fine, just back off and maybe read some other posts...like Victims of sexual abuse...and then you could foster some compassion and not be so abusive in your repsponse when it obviously doesn't concern you if you are someone who enjoys it... I said "I don't know what to say to thaos ppl who do like it..." just seems wrong to me, and I think it destroys relationships....among other things.

I have done over a year of therapy for this and other abuses, and don't deserve to be talked to like that for expressing opinion, and fact, and trying to help anyone who is having issues with porn in their marriage - because I have been there and seen what it can do if you aren't careful.
post #111 of 140
Good to hear that you and your dh are going to try to work through this, BeeMama...
Arduinna,
I have a few questions for you.
Would you have a problem with your dh:
1)Going to a strip club?
2)getting a lap dance at one?
3)recieving oral sex from a dancer?

At what point are you "controlling" him?
Is any relationship that isn't open a controlling one in your eyes?
post #112 of 140
IMO the real problem that hurts families is the difference of opinon between spouses. If both parties agree it's not an issue, and that stands either way for or against. If you're both against it, then it isn't an issue. If your both fine with it, or don't care ect then it isn't an issue. As with all differences of opinions in marriages they have to be worked out to the satisfaction of both. Ultimatums don't typically work in the long run but they can be effective in the short term. I think blaming it specifically on the object or issue is missing the point. Because disagreement and value differences are common things since we are individuals. Most people don't agree on eveyrthing. I can totally get why anyone would be pissed that one party didn't live up to an agreement they made. Understandable. But bottom line anyone in a relationship has to work out how differences are handled. In a loving considerate relationship with people with similar values (which hopefully one chose as a partner) you don't need to order or forbid the other partner. You don't need to because 1, both partners want what is best for BOTH of them and 2 consideration and love makes them BOTH willing to talk openly, hear the other person and compromise. If you are not in that kind of relationship then you have a problem which isn't going to be solved by telling your partner what to do. Of course you don't have to live with someone that you don't share values with and that there isn't enough mutual respect to talk and both compromise. You can get counseling, if the willingness is there to work it out, you can divorce or you can agree to disagree. Well there is always the last option (which seems to be the most popular for some reason) which is try your best to make someone else bend to your will and do what you say. Tends to breed resentment though and doesn't bode well in the long term for the relationship.

Cause really this isn't so much about porn IMO it's about how a couple deal with differences of opinion. And power plays and ordering a partner just doesn't a good marriage make in the long run.
post #113 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
Cause really this isn't so much about porn IMO it's about how a couple deal with differences of opinion. And power plays and ordering a partner just doesn't a good marriage make in the long run.
Hmmm....so how should I have handeled the situation, considering the fact that we'd mutually agreed on standards beforehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
The way I confronted him about it was "Hey...I know blablabla...I'm going to try to be cool about it. This is just something I'm going to have to come to terms with...I just need honesty from you...I don't have any right to lay down laws about your sexuality...your sexuality is your and yours alone...etc."
We had mutually agreed upon this before we were even seriously dating.
And you're accusing me of being controlling.
Btw, you never answered my question.
post #114 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
IMO the real problem that hurts families is the difference of opinon between spouses. If both parties agree it's not an issue, and that stands either way for or against. If you're both against it, then it isn't an issue. If your both fine with it, or don't care ect then it isn't an issue. As with all differences of opinions in marriages they have to be worked out to the satisfaction of both. Ultimatums don't typically work in the long run but they can be effective in the short term. I think blaming it specifically on the object or issue is missing the point. Because disagreement and value differences are common things since we are individuals. Most people don't agree on eveyrthing. I can totally get why anyone would be pissed that one party didn't live up to an agreement they made. Understandable. But bottom line anyone in a relationship has to work out how differences are handled. In a loving considerate relationship with people with similar values (which hopefully one chose as a partner) you don't need to order or forbid the other partner.
This is what beemamma has been fundamentally saying all along! I think the misunderstanding here has come from the fact that you consider that the problem in this marriage is how affected beemamma is by her husband viewing porn, dispite a prior agreement that he would not.

You understand that beemamma is upset about being betrayed, but think she would be to blame for breaking up the marriage because her attitude is controlling and leaving him would be some form of 'ultimatum'. I agree that they should try to work out differences in the marriage but I don't think we should undermine beemamma's feelings either. I mean, we are all very different as you have pointed out, and do not agree about everything. You may think beemamma is making a storm in a tea cup but I happen to think this is a very difficult situation for her. What if she can't feel the same as before this all happened? What if this is just one of those things beemamma couldn't live with? That is not to be undermined as her reactions are important and her husband was well aware that she felt strongly about this issue before he snuck off for a peek. I don't think I could trust dh again in the same way if I was rocked to the core ... I mean beemamma doesn't want to have to control her dh, she would like to trust him to control himself and fair enough. Her marriage without this trust may be very empty and lacking of intimacy - and if she were to stay she would have to either watch him like a prison gaurd around the computer and at the newsagent/friends house or risk re investing her trust into an outright sneak and lyer.

I talked with dh about you beemamma and we both agree that it's a tough call to make - it's up to you as only you know how affected by all this you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
You know magazines such as Hustler, Playboy and Penthouse and Playgirl ect have been available for subscription or purchase at stores long long long before the internet. It's not like people were going to public meeting places to view porn prior to the internet.
There are censorships to pornography sold at stores, you can download rape porn off the net which you cannot buy at a store anywhere in the world. Arduinna, are you saying that you could work it out with your husband if he were looking at a legal sexually explicit image but would leave him if the image was an illegal sexually explicit one? You know if it's a store bought image - you don't need to control your husband as the law will do this for you. Do you have the same security with the internet??? Also, Hustler, Playboy and Penthouse have certain 'types' of models - internet porn is waaay more diverse and user specific. Don't miss the fundamental points here in favour of a debate about whether women who hate their dh's looking at porn are being controlling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
I'm facinated at all the threads at mdc by people that are so concerned with controlling their partners. Does he/she look at porn, how much is too much masturbation, does your partner have friend of the opposite sex. I'm married, not dead and not a ruler over my partner.
Your opening generalisation is interesting to me. What happens in your marriage when you ask your husband for respect on a certain issue and he fails to respect these not unreasonable requests after agreeing to do so? Anything you say, by your own definition, would be controlling. If you agree to disagree - then how would you react if your husband were to have an affair? Would you just "agree to disagree" on whether it was right or wrong or would you be doling out ultimatums and attempting to control your husbands future behaviour in an attempt to salvage the marriage. Would you leave? Why? You believe that couples should be able to work things out together, ideally this would be true, but not always is this possible. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, my dear.
post #115 of 140
Thank you, Starlight....
Seriously...I'm a little too upset to tackle these points one by one, so, thanks...
post #116 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
LOL, just because I'm able to argue a side of the argument that you disagree with doesn't make me defensive, but believe what you want.
Your only arguments are that you don't care as long as it's consensual. Beemamma does care, and many other women on this board care, and you are here debating that our feelings don't matter just because you don't care? Not a sustainable argument. Your views are equally as valuable as ours but if you don't care then why are you here badgering those who do? You call us "controlling" and to me that is a defensive statement and I will believe what I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
Bottom line, I don't care what anyone does as long as they are consenting adults.
Good for you!!! I'm really happy this is not an issue for you. I care and Beemamma cares, so does kellyb. We also care that this is a problem for you to accept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
And yes you aren't the poster that brought up the therapist, that doesn't change that you took what I said out of context which was specifically about the therapist comment.
Well I don't know who bought up "the therapist" but I am in therapy, is that also a problem for you? Maybe you should try it yourself. Therapy is a wonderfull thing and no person should be looked down upon because they are in therapy, that stigma is soooo not cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
as far as kiddie porn, it's illegal and not relevant to the discussion because we are discussing legal porn that adults use.
Your discussing legal porn that adults used. Go back and read my earlier post. It has been discussed on this very thread that pornography leads to illegal pornography - I was raped on camera for who's viewing pleasure??? Do you really believe that "legal porn that adults use" means that illegal porn is not really used in the adult community??? Well sadly, it is. There are rape porn, kiddie porn, snuff movies (where they murder the rape victim) all ready for you to download on your PC. And you can do this when you sneak off and use the computer when your wife is not around, you cannot do this by walking into a 'store'. Sorry, we are discussing pornography now although this whole thread has strayed form the OP concerns and feelings about her husband looking at porn. Sorry Taralee!

Arduinna, you may debate me if that is what you wish to do but be prepared to support your arguments and not just offer opinions that are based on the fact that you self admittedly don't care and think those that do are controlling.
post #117 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite

Your discussing legal porn that adults used. Go back and read my earlier post. It has been discussed on this very thread that pornography leads to illegal pornography - I was raped on camera for who's viewing pleasure??? Do you really believe that "legal porn that adults use" means that illegal porn is not really used in the adult community??? Well sadly, it is. There are rape porn, kiddie porn, snuff movies (where they murder the rape victim) all ready for you to download on your PC. And you can do this when you sneak off and use the computer when your wife is not around, you cannot do this by walking into a 'store'.
I am sorry for your personal, painful experiences.

However, there is no proof whatsoever that viewing legal porn leads to viewing illegal porn. I do not accept that normal people go from watching legal porn involving consenting adults to trolling the 'net for child porn.
There is absolutely no OBJECTIVE proof that this is the case.

Blanket statements like this really shed more heat than light on an already emotionally charged issue. And, yes, rape porn and kiddie porn (I do not believe in the widespread existance of snuff films) existed before the internet. You could get them by mail order.. people who wanted such things have always been able to find them. Yes, the internet certainly makes it easier.. the internet is driven by sex. But the problem isn't the internet and it isn't legal porn.

The problem is clashing values in individual marriages/partnerships.
The problem is people having different expectations.. the problem is when one partner is deceptive... the problem is when people can't resolve these complex issues with their own partners.
If having a no-porn household is important to you.. and your partner is viewing porn.. you have tough issues to resolve, indeed. And I can see where that would be a deal-breaker for some people.

I personally do not care if my DH looks at LEGAL porn. I don't really think it is my business. I think people are entitled to some privacy and autonomy even if they are married. I do not like many aspects of the commercial sex industry, but my dh is an adult and is entitled to make his own decisions.

I like to read erotica.. and I would take great offense if dh tried to tell me I couldn't.

But that is my marriage.
Others have to work these things out for themselves.
I guess I just wish it could be left there, with every adult getting to decide for HIM or HERSELF, in his or her own partnership.

I wish people didn't feel the need to generalize their personal opinions to the rest of us.
Because I also do not believe in the concept of sin.. nor do I believe in labeling other people's sexuality as evil or harmful (as long as it is between consenting adults.)
post #118 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah
I am sorry for your personal, painful experiences.

However, there is no proof whatsoever that viewing legal porn leads to viewing illegal porn. I do not accept that normal people go from watching legal porn involving consenting adults to trolling the 'net for child porn.
There is absolutely no OBJECTIVE proof that this is the case.
Yes there is. In Australia we had a federal operation targeting child pornography and paeodofiles. Normal well regaurded adults had illegal porn downloaded onto their hard drives. School teachers and principals, child care workers, doctor's and nurses people like you and me. There is proof of that, I can drag up the details of what this extensive operation uncovered and show you normal looking people, often in a position of trust and well regaurded, caught up in this scandal because their 'private business' was not legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah
Blanket statements like this really shed more heat than light on an already emotionally charged issue. And, yes, rape porn and kiddie porn (I do not believe in the widespread existance of snuff films) existed before the internet. You could get them by mail order.. people who wanted such things have always been able to find them. Yes, the internet certainly makes it easier.. the internet is driven by sex.
I agree that "the internet is driven by sex" which is why so many people women are uncomfortable with it. I will argue with you that illegal porn isn't widespread but will agree that snuff films are rare and hard to find ... also very expensive I'd imagine as it caters for a 'fetish' that in itself is rare. I am not here to add heat to this argument but will have to disagree that illegal porn is not a problem. How many college girls are secretly videod by their boyfriends who download the images onto the net for any one who's interested - passing it off as legal, consensual, all be it amature porn? More than you are probably aware. Ok, I'll grant you snuff films are not the issue here but the up skirt webcams and locker/hotel room spy cams are illegal pornography ... and it could well be your husband looking at that type of site. It's his business though, right?

I'm not here arguing that illegal porn was not around before the internet ... just I truly feel that it is the kind of thing most turn a blind eye to. It is more common than you think is the point I sought to make and it is scary for some of us that our husbands could go there really easily and be lying to us about it. It is wonderful that you are comfortable with your dh viewing internet porn but please don't say that the easy acces to illegal porn via internet is not something I should be worried about. I am.


Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah
But the problem isn't the internet and it isn't legal porn.

The problem is clashing values in individual marriages/partnerships.
The problem is people having different expectations.. the problem is when one partner is deceptive... the problem is when people can't resolve these complex issues with their own partners.
If having a no-porn household is important to you.. and your partner is viewing porn.. you have tough issues to resolve, indeed. And I can see where that would be a deal-breaker for some people.
I have said this myself, but in defense of Beemamma's feelings - she expressed a concern that this was not something she could personally envisage getting past in her marriage. She really felt betrayed and had a right to these feelings. I agree with this point about it being between husband and wife .. and this is why the issue is "complex"

Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah
I personally do not care if my DH looks at LEGAL porn. I don't really think it is my business. I think people are entitled to some privacy and autonomy even if they are married. I do not like many aspects of the commercial sex industry, but my dh is an adult and is entitled to make his own decisions.

I like to read erotica.. and I would take great offense if dh tried to tell me I couldn't.

But that is my marriage.
Others have to work these things out for themselves.
I guess I just wish it could be left there, with every adult getting to decide for HIM or HERSELF, in his or her own partnership.
This is the heart of the point. It is up to each couple ultimately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah
I wish people didn't feel the need to generalize their personal opinions to the rest of us.
Because I also do not believe in the concept of sin.. nor do I believe in labeling other people's sexuality as evil or harmful (as long as it is between consenting adults.)
So you will generalise your personal opinions to us and say that "as long as it is between consenting adults" you don't have a problem with it. That's fantastic, but I will not be made to feel guilty because I do infact have a problem with it - in my marriage we have agreed 'no porn' and I expect all our mutual agreements to be honored. I have nothing against those who use legal porn themselves but would not be comfortable with it in my home - legal or illegal. Period.
post #119 of 140
I haven't said what beanmama or any specific poster should have or should do about their situation. You guys are assuming much more than I said. I posted my general thoughts regarding the general topic of husbands looking at porn. At this point, minds are made up and the situations are what they are and I know that nothing I say is going to change any of it. I'm not trying to. I'm sharing my opinions on the subject at hand.


as for me not answering your question. I did, but apparently you didn't see it. My whole post answered how we handle such things.
post #120 of 140
By the way...I said I WORK for a therapist, and she has discussed this with others in her profession as to how much of a problem it is. She also has noticed an increase in the need for marraige counseling due to "virtual infidelity" ...so there. I have also been through therapy for damages done by this stuff...so there...

Thanks for you who have the wherewithall to site sources and studies, like the one in Australia. I get too emotional to get that detailed...
However, anti=porn sites have backup for that sort of information. If anyone in in a relationship that needs to address this issue, try anti-porn in a search engine and you can find some info on how to approach the issue.

I just want to bring up the addiction point that 'some' people seem to be in denial about. Read earlier that porn affect the pleasure center of the brain, and animal instinct place, not higher brain. Have you heard about the Rats and the food pellet test? Given the choice, they would rather push the lever for pleasure and starve! and they have to push it longer to get a response, because these centers in the brain MAKE us need more, more, more.

So don't try and kid yourself ...
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