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does your husband look at porn? - Page 4

post #61 of 140
Jordansmommy,
Please re-read my post. I did not say that pron causes rape, what I did do was suggest that the terminology used in gang rape versus gang bang was interestingly correlated. In response to your suggestion that women who perform in porn movies are doing so by their will- well we agreed on that. I did however suggest that what is consensual is not always what it seems- as in the case of a teenager who consents to sex with an older man or relative for that matter.

Try to read between the lines of my suggestions and not take them literally. I also posed the question about why is it so easy for women to enter the sex industry and that is what we are talking about in a general sense.

For the record, rape is not the only type of violence inflicted on women and it happens a lot more than you know- even statistics do not accurately reflect the numbers (almost half of the women did not report the rape or felt they somehow contributed to the situation). I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to do the research themselves.

I also did not say that someone who buys or looks at porn is socially irresponsible, I did say that as conscious mothers we owe it to ourselves to explore and see if there is a better way. Can this industry operate in a more positive way that benefits women? I think so it just takes innovative minds that care ( and a whole list of other things that I will not get into) Once again, if you are just reading this page I encourage you to go back and read from page one. I really do not feel like re-stating what i already said.

Even though I am hooked on this thread I must say good-bye- I have papers due next week!


Mothering dot Commune mommies Rock on......


bah, bah, black sheep
post #62 of 140
Hm, I just read all this and it was very interesting. FTR, dh looks at porn late at night and we have some DVDs and occasionally I look at it. I don't really find it very exciting anymore, though - it kind of makes me sad for the women. So I guess I should be against it for that reason. In terms of marital relations, though, I don't have a problem with it. Dh seems to like some visuals when he masturbates. It doesn't bother me at all, except when we are TTC and he is wasting all that good baby juice! But seriously, I do feel bad for the women; even if they chose to go into it, it is sad that we live in a society where these girls think that this is an exciting thing to be proud of.
post #63 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrieMF
From what I can see on this topic, a woman's self esteem is a huge factor in whether she accepts her SO viewing porn.
Not necessarily. I think a woman's self-esteem is a huge factor in whether she accepts things she's not comfortable with, period. This can be porn, or having koolaid in the house, kwim?
post #64 of 140
Lunamama, yours is certainly not the only post on this thread. While I did reply to your question about exploitation of women, I was also taking a general position on the topic of porn. Perhaps the rhetorical question format confused you. For the record, there was a comment from another poster about porn being a contributory cause of rape and that's what spurred my commentary on that topic. But again, it a personal opinion not a point-by-point refute of other posts.

So please don't trouble yourself re-stating your position for my benefit I didn't miss your point... I simply disagree with it.

As for "seeing if there's a better way" that's the problem. My responsibility to my daughter (on this particular subject) is to help her understand that sex is best between adults who love each other, and that porn is designed for entertainment/ fantasy. My responsibility to my daughter is to raise her to value her worth as a human being and as a woman, and to ensure that she believes she has just as much ability and opportunity as anyone else. If I let her watch any old thing she wanted on tv or surf the web without supervision and then blame filmmakers of pornography that would make me ridiculous.

I disagree that porn cannot benefit women. There are women that have posted on this thread in favor of it, and I know many women personally that enjoy it alone or with a partner. I don't think anyone grows up wanting to be a porn star, but it's a business in need of employees, and at the risk of sounding crass, if it's easier for women to enter it than men, I say it's because men need to be able to get it up and orgasm a bunch of times in front of 25 people.

I don't believe that the answer is "change the industry" The pornography business does not tout itself as the answer to your romantic problems, the ideal of sexual relationships, or the cure for a sexual slump. THAT would be wrong. If a "doctor" came on screen at the beginning of each movie and said "the American Medical Association recommends that you watch this movie to improve your love life and shape your views of women in society" that would be wrong. (silly example but hopefully my point comes across) Porn doesn't claim to be anything other than what it is: pure naughty entertainment. If you don't find it entertaining, you have the option to not watch it.

The answer is "take responsibility for your own child/ husband/ family to educate and discuss" If you don't want your child exposed to it, supervise them. If you don't want your DH to look at it, ask him not to. And if he refuses to comply, it's time for a talk about how much he values your relationship. Censorship is not the answer. You can't exploit someone who willingly enters into the relationship. And yes, there's a big difference between an actress in a pornography film and the teenager whose uncle manipulates her into a sexual relationship because he's a sick bastard who threatens her safety, or because she can't go to her parents since they haven't built that trust with her. If the people who perform in these films hate their jobs... well... they need a new career. I'm not going to say porn is morally reprehensible because those people aren't taking steps to find something else to do.

Violence against women is abhorrent to me, as a woman and as a human being. Rape is very prevalent, and largely unreported, as are many other crimes against women. If you want to eliminate those problems, start at home. Instill confidence and a sense of self-worth in your daughter. Volunteer at a women's shelter. And don't do things that make you uncomfortable, including not watching porn if that's on the list.
post #65 of 140
Just to offer another data point:

I'm the porn consumer in our household. Of all the porn that we own, well over 90% of it was bought or downloaded by me and for me. DH occasionally looks at and reads porn, but he's by far less interested in it than I am.

It seems strange to me that ya'll seem to be confining the disccusion to "The opression of women" and "The Porn Industry", because my experience being a pretty hard-core porn consumer is that you can look at porn in a way that those issues are pretty much irrelevant.

A *huge* amount of the pornography out there is actually completely not-for-profit. My work (mainly of the dirty stories variety) is part of a whole cadre of women creating porn for one another without corporation or profit, and pretty much without exploitation -- I mean, who am I exploiting? Fictional characters? My Job, which I occasionally slack off on because I've got some hot scene in my mind that just has to get on paper?

And it's not only literary porn that can be not-for-profit and non-coercive. I'm a big fan of amateur porn of the more visual variety, and vintage porn from the 1880's, when the sexual and moral climate was entirely different. There's also animated porn -- more DH's thing than mine, but still out there, and still something to be taken into consideration.

Also, since DH and I are both Bisexual, with him tending much more toward the 'gay' side of the spectrum, a large portion of the porn in our house features men rather than women, it's maybe 70/30 ratio of gay to het. It seems to me that people who argue so strenuously that porn is inherently exploitative of women need to educate themselves more on the homosexual porn world -- both in the industry and the more 'amateur' world.

I don't consume mainstream porn because honestly, it doesn't turn me on. The 'skeeze' factor is too high. I guess I just wanted to point out that the world of pornography is a lot broader than you all are giving it credit for, and that there are lots of ways for our partners and ourselves to experience it other than those that have been brought up.
post #66 of 140
I'm still following this thread ... very interesting points are being raised in relation to porn. Congratulations to everyone here for respecting each other's differences. Keep posting ... this is better than soapies on telly any day!!
post #67 of 140
Hey there ladies... just a side note on my mind, a little niggle that needs to be outed...

While I have obvious moral issues with porn, for whatever reason, social, marital, as a mom, etc...

I just never thought it was all that great - it reminds me of a biology or health class video...

"...and this is what it looks like when a 12" dildo is crammed into. (insert preferred orifice).." :LOL

I always thought it was too crude to really be stimulating. I just think those parts of ourselves are meant to be cherished, and shared privately - it belittles it for me to think of a yoni being paraded around on a 34" screen! Makes me feel naked with all my clothes on.

now, I always knew that male and female pleasure centers are stimulated differently - that's why porn is mostly a male thing, cuz they get it visually -
Then what do you get out of it, fellow mommy pron viewers? Is it really something you would seek out by yourself, or is it fun cuz you and partners share...who brings it into the relationship?
just curious, cuz I don't necessarily think it is pursued by the women in a relationship... unless you are an exception to the stats

love to know what you think.
post #68 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by subeetaho

now, I always knew that male and female pleasure centers are stimulated differently - that's why porn is mostly a male thing, cuz they get it visually -
Then what do you get out of it, fellow mommy pron viewers? Is it really something you would seek out by yourself, or is it fun cuz you and partners share...who brings it into the relationship?
just curious, cuz I don't necessarily think it is pursued by the women in a relationship... unless you are an exception to the stats

love to know what you think.
I *loved* porn since I was a little girl and discovered Clan of the Cave Bear. :LOL I used it (esp. written porn) a lot by myself. Then, when dh and I got together, he liked movies. At first, I was into them, but as I have become more of a mommy and wifey, I don't like them so much, b/c they are so clinical, as you said. I think I would like female-centric and directed movies, though.
post #69 of 140
Jordansmommy & Belleweather well-said.
post #70 of 140
My husband has looked at porn, and has admitted he has done when I am usually not "available". LOL
I will be honest and say I look at porn more so than he does. And its not a lust thing. I've always been turned on by sexual pictures, video, etc.
It doesnt bother either one of us that we look at it, and we sometimes look together.
post #71 of 140
Incidentally there's a series on HBO right now called "Pornucopia" which examines different types of pornography. Very interesting for people who do and do not enjoy it, though there are some "excerpts" from various films.

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/pornucopia/index.html
post #72 of 140
Great thread, I enjoy hearing the different viewpoints and trying to understand people's perspectives. I have lots of thoughts but I tend to have trouble formulating them into easily understandable words without spending forever... lunamomma & Jordansmommy to both of you for being able to express yourselves so eloquently.

I find it interesting that some of you have argued that porn does not lead to rape, etc. It may be tempting to consider it an extreme view, but I think it's pretty well established that there is a connection between porn and crime. Just ask any cop what they observe in their work. Am I saying that everyone who looks at porn is a criminal? Of course not, but think about it - porn objectifies women and men, and when it comes to understanding the psychology behind a rapist or murderer the primary prerequisite for committing the atrocity is seeing their victim as less than human. Sure that person probably had issues to begin with and I do believe that we have a responsibility in our families to address those issues, but just like violent movies I believe that porn adds to the desensitization of people.

I personally choose not to watch porn for a lot of reasons. For one I think it's a waste of precious time. Having a family seems to really eat into free time and my husband and I don't have sex enough as it is, so porn would just cut into our sex time together, call me crazy, but I prefer the real thing :LOL

I am always amazed at how many grown people are into porn. For me it was something I stumbled upon in puberty, it satisfied my curiosities and I quite enjoyed it then. A previous poster said that it could play a role in adolescent development and I agree with that, but somehow I just kind of look at porn like video games - something you grow out of. In light of that, when the time comes and my daughter is interested in porn I won't make her think there's something wrong with that, but I will make a point to emphasize that "sex is best between two adults who love each other"(as Jordansmommy said very well).

Overall, I feel that it comes down to different strokes for different folks. If porn does it for you and fits with your lifestyle then great, but me it just leaves with kind of a hollow, unsatisfied feeling and I just don't have time for that.


guerrillamama - I did want to respond to your answer to my question several pages ago. I was not offended by what Carrie said, I simply took issue with it, but I never told her she should not express her point of view. I'm not sure how banana could have said what she did differently so that it would not have been offensive, it's her opinion. I do know what you mean about being bugged when others try to tell you how you feel, it's not very respectful. I guess I just didn't perceive it that way.
post #73 of 140
Wow. We must be massively immature at this house then, since DH and I both enjoy Porn AND videogames. Ignore the whole mistique that I'm a responsible professional and all, the stories about hot boysex and the Sims2 have ruined all of that.
post #74 of 140
Ummmm ....

I've been quitely following this thread - although I have posted before. Yes, many interesting points have been made about 'porn' and it is a very interesting question - "does porn lead to sex crime?" I honestly don't know.

I can't say that I have anything against the women in this thread who enjoy watching consensual porn - I have never even thought that this may lead to more serious harder stuff. It's alot like the argumant that smoking leads to other drugs ... it may, but who's to say for sure.

Just thought I'd add to this thread now because I suffer from Post Traumatic Stress disorder - and although what happened to me was horrific (I am a rape victim) I'm not sure I'd go as far as claiming that a little porn led to this. Bellow is the link to the thread containing my story. Those that read it tell me honestly do you think that a lust for porn could have led to what happened to me? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...90#post2346890

I do not see that something consensual could ever encourage rape!
post #75 of 140
Thread Starter 
hi all, i am a little disapointed that i started this long thread and few if any have responded to me personally? i know that is selfish of me. but i want to feel like i am part of it too. anyway, i was hoping to hear from the A cup ladies, feeling proud. that is now my only beef about porn, the girls always have big boobs and i do not.( i have to admit i have seen maybe 1% porn in my life.) i would like to know that women or men actually like and are turned on by smaller boobies!! my partner loves my boobs and sais he is not a boobs guy anyway, never has been. (like he is ever going to tell me he does not like them). any response on small boobs, even though off the topic a little.
post #76 of 140
I'm sorry for hi jacking - Taralee! Just so many interesting points of views and a good place to ask opinions relating to porn. But you are right (not selfish) and we should get back to the OP.

I think the fact that guy's like big boobs is a bit of a misconception. I have HUGE boobs but the guy's that comment are really low class -kwim? I have asked my husband if I seriously wanted a breast reduction ... what would his reaction be? He started off saying the expected 'I love you the way you are' stuff but I really wanted to know if he would be less attracted to me if I did get my boobs reduced.

He said that he would get used to it as it was more important to him that I was comfortable with the way I am ... and he appreciated that big boobs mean a sore back, uncomfortable jogging and unwanted attention from blokes. He asked me how I would feel about men that had gotton hypothetical penis enlargements and I said that this would look unnatural and ridiculous. He had made his point though and said "Well that's what we think of you's when you put silicone in your chests - it doesn't look right and this just draws more attention to breast size than small boobs who look kinda cute and perky naturally" Hmmm. This is pretty accurate ... men care about actual breast size about as much as we care about penis size.

I don't think it's the size of your boobs that make you sexy - it's your level of self confidence that really turns the guys on! If a women thinks she's sexy and is not worried about being small or big, fat or skinny, etc. then she exudes an aura of confidence that both genders find attractive.

It's funny that your only issue with porn is breastsize ... you could always find some consensual porn with flat chested women as NOT ALL porn has busty babes as you seem to believe. I would love to have your A cups and I would gladly give you my natural DD's! Then you'd truly know whose breasts were better to own ... and no, I wouldn't swap them back!!! Enjoy what you have ... breast/penis size is part of a fantasy land and not as important as stigma would have us believe. Your fella would be with a big titted women if that is what was important to him ... he loves you and finds you sexy just the way you are. I don't think he's lying about not being a 'boobs man' either - bet your a hot mamma with great legs!

PS: You can get awesome sexy lingerie ... all my comfy bra's are off the maternity shelf and look very, ummm, practicle? The only sexy DD bra's I can find come in size 22 (and I'm a 12) so I hate the limitations there ... urgh. I also do karate and the bugga's get in the way. I can't run to make the pedestrian lites without getting wolfwhistled (insulting and degrading ... hate it) and my back aches as I tend to hunch over to hide my rounded profile. Problem is ... couldn't afford a reduction if I wanted one!!! Small boobs are cool.
post #77 of 140
i have skimmed, i am guilty....

i have small boobs and i am happy with them. all my boyfriends have loved my boob size. i am a B cup when not nursing. i never used to wear bras and always felt like a pre pubescent girl. but over the years i have learned the real secret---lots of men find small boobs pretty. even if your DH was hankering for a big boobie that doesnt mean he doesnt like small ones. he was just having some fantasy or whatever. and if he just typed "t*ts" how do you know it wasnt ones like yours he was looking for?

but if it makes you feel bad, then its an issue your husband should respect. maybe he doesnt want to stop looking at big boobie porn, but the fact that it bothers you should arouse some compassion in him ( pun intended, lol)

really. its plain and simple . if he is being so brash about it, like writing you off so harshly, then there is a problem going on that is bigger than the porn/boob issue. part could be your insecurities and part could be his resistance to being "controlled" but in an ideal situation you would both be able to have a real open honest conversation about it that didnt feel so hurtful. Maybe neither of you would "get your way" in the conversation, but you would gain understanding , and reach a new bond between each other.

anyway i agree with all the advice that revolves around being more playful in the bedroom, using lengerie, etc. so you feel more sexy again. but make sure its things YOU want to do too, not just crap to please HIM, so you dont feel like an object... especially since you have issues. take very small steps toward feeling better and always stop if you feel uncomfortable. that should, for your sake, be verbally stated between the two of you.

if that sounds out of the question, ( like you think you two couldnt be that open at this point) then there is work to be done in your marriage, but that work can be fun and very worthwhile. i say this from experience of being relly unsexual, feeling totally ugly, ( due to my own sexual issues) with my DH, to feeling like a total Diva around him. he hasnt really changed much, i have just gotten more mentally sexual, and able to be more open about what i like and need.
post #78 of 140
Thread Starter 
hi starlite, thanks for your support, hahahaha.. heee. hee. umm. i fully agree with you that men probably don't think much on it, maybe when they were younger going through puburty. i have thought of sexy bras but no extra money. maybe when i am older. and yes i do know your aches and pains not first hand but my sister is very large chested and she too hunches shoulders, first girl in 5th grade with boobs.... and she has sore back. she also was unsuccessful with breastfeeding her first, but i think if she'd had better care she may have breastfeeded with time? anyway, i also agree fake ones look funny, i looked at websites for boob jobs and they do look odd. not natural at all. but i would like to compile a portfolio of women nude with allll ALL sorts of bodies. we are bobarded with one type of figure in the world. men too.
i just don't know about your rape and the porn. hard to say. i am sorry you went throught that, i experienced a rape in college with a guy, i was drunk, he would not stop and it was not violent, more subtle but he did not respect me, i ended up pregnant too.
it is great your doing karate! if you don't mind me asking where do you live in australia?
thanks again for your kind words.
post #79 of 140
Thread Starter 
jesus starlite, i feel like such a looser whining about my boobs, i read your story, and your strength is amazing. i don't know anything about the type of depression you have, i have never heard of it until now. i don't know what else to say. i am so happy your living a life you love with people you love!!!! thank god.
post #80 of 140
I haven't read through all of these. I'm so upset, livid.

I have a MAJOR problem w/porn. I grew up sneaking peaks at my brother's porn & always felt like that's what I had to be. I was a promiscuous teenager. I had eating disorders to stay skinny. I began to base my self-worth on being sexy & alluring. I got lots of attention & thought all of my efforts were paying off.
Then as I got older, trying to hold myself to that image, like that's what was special or unique about me started seeming really messed up. Then I was in an accident & had some major scarring on my leg. The accident changed me in so many ways, it was kind of a re-birth. I really became anti-porn.
I had one very serious relationship break up over it. I know some women are okay w/porn, but I"m not one of them. I really felt like he should find someone that was okay with it... I'd find someone who felt creeped out by it like me. We're still good friends.
I'm getting to my point here. I'm so upset I'm having a hard time staying on track.
I can't deal w/ it, it really messes with me. I'm 30, I'm not firm by any stretch of the imagination. I should be proud of my breasts, they've fed the healthiest little girl I've ever seen and still bring her comfort & nourishment.
I met my husband a few years back & told him before it got serious that this was such a major issue for me. He agreed that it objectified women & admitted feeliing guilty for looking at it in the past. He's always said that he doesn't need that now. We got a computer a little over a year ago even though I was worried about the temptation, he eased my fears & I went ahead with it (which has been good, it's the only contact I have w/people right now). This morning I just had a feeling that something was up(I always seem to pick up on these kind of things), I asked him & he denied it. The computer was defragmenting so I thought I'd wait it out. Then I told him if he were to lie about it (as the previous serious relationship had) it was going to be so much worse. He told me he did look at some. I'm having a hard time breathing. I want to leave him, this is something I can't deal with. HOw can I stay w/him?
I live 500 miles from the closest friend, I'm in a town I hate (his backward little hometown), I have a baby who hates to travel. I don't know what I"m going to do. I can't look at him. If it's not important to have a particular shape, why did he risk our whole relationship to look at it?
I don't know what to do. I just need to vent I guess, sort through this mess. I don't want to do anything too rash. I need to leave but I've got to plan it out.
Did I end up with a point?
For the ladies who feel uneasy , I totally understand.
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