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anti-circ celebrities?? - Page 3

post #41 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Howard Stern Jewish as well? I listen to his show every morning and I've heard him go about his anti-circ statements many times.

As someone previously pointed out, Howard Stern is Jewish but he speaks out against his religion and circumcision.

According to photos I've seen, I'm guessing Michael Douglas (and his family) are practicing Jews and chances are his sons are circumcised.
post #42 of 64
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post #43 of 64
Actually, Michael Douglas has a Jewish father and I believe a Catholic mother. I think his affiliation with Judaism is that of cultural only.
post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2six
Actually, Michael Douglas has a Jewish father and I believe a Catholic mother. I think his affiliation with Judaism is that of cultural only.
While you suspect his affiliation may be cultural only, it's probably enough for him to want it done to his son. (Unless his Welsh wife thought otherwise)

How many newborn boys in this country are circumcised because of "culture"?

How many Jewish newborns are cut in hospitals even though their parents are not practicing the faith but do it anyway??

Yes indeed, culture can be an extremely strong motivatating factor.

Not intending to be argumentative, these are just my thoughts...

Pam
post #45 of 64
I was more thinking that it wouldn't be an issue of Jewish relgion and that his wife, being European, might have quite other thoughts on the matter.
post #46 of 64
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post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloli
(not sure what the circ rate is in France, but I know it's fairly low).
There is no European country that has a circ rate higher than 1%. At one time, the rate for the British Isles was well over 50% but they are now at 1% or less.


Frank
post #48 of 64

Tsk-tsk, correction

"At one time, the rate for the British Isles was well over 50% but they are now at 1% or less."

Please don't include Ireland in this statistic - it's never been practiced there.
post #49 of 64
Possibly not to the extent that it was practiced in Britian but it was a fact of life there too. At one time or another, circumcision has touched all English speaking countries around the globe.



Frank
post #50 of 64

Now I'm curious...

Frank,
do you have any pubished stats to back up that assertion? I'm Irish and as far as I've ever been aware, it has not been practiced here except in extremely rare cases.

Take a look at this link
http://www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&con=476
post #51 of 64
Maybe Frank means Northern Ireland, as opposed to the Republic? I couldn't imagine RIC being performed in Ireland.
post #52 of 64
I couldn't imagine it being performed in the States or Australia or New Zealand (or indeed the UK) either. Until three months ago. I'd never had any reason to research it before then, I thought that it was something people did for religious purposes only, I couldn't imagine that anyone would do it to a baby for any other reason.

I don't pretend to know any stats about Ireland, I can't imagine the Irish falling for it, but I don't think anything would surprise me any more.

Just a thought.
post #53 of 64
I think what we are thinking about here is a matter of interpretation.

Routine Infant Circumcision means infants that are circumcised with no medical indication as a matter of course of events. Many people think that when the circumcision rate is less than 50%, it will no longer be routine but if as many as 5%-10% are circumcised without medical indication, it would still be Routine Infant circumcision. This does not include ritual circumcisions.

At one time, all English speaking countries practiced RIC although none took it up to the extent that The US did. The pre war circumcision rate in GB was about 57% - 60% immediately before WWII. In 1949, The Gardiner Report was issued that spoke strongly against circumcision and within a year, neonatal circumcision was defunded from the national health care plan. The economic devastation of WWII insured that few parents had the financial wherewithal to pay for it themselves and almost immediately, the circumcision rate fell to single digits. To see a true picture of the circumcision rate anywhere in GB prior to this time, you would have to limit your poll to men who are 55 years old or older today. This is why many Brits do not know that this was once a common practice in their country once. They look at their peers and see that none of them are circumcised. If they only look a couple of generations back, they will see it.

Just like here in the states, I'm sure that the procedure was more prevalent in some areas and less prevalent in others but with an overall rate of 57%, it was common in all areas including Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It's just like in Canada. In the maritime provinces, it is extremely rare but once, it was more common. With the recent drastic drops in the circumcision rates in the western provinces, in another 25 or 30 years, people will believe it was never common there even though it exceeded 60% and possibly 70% at one time. We have a collective memory but it is not very accurate.



Frank
post #54 of 64

And your sources would be?

Frank,
you keep making the unsupported assertion that RIC was practised in Ireland at one stage (since you claim that it had a greater than 50% rate in the British Isles, which does include Ireland, both the republic and northern).

"At one time, all English speaking countries practiced RIC although none took it up to the extent that The US did."

Where are you getting this supposed information? Did you even read the link I supplied, an Irish site? It states the opposite to your claim and I find it a lot more credible.

Are you confused about the fact that the Republic of Ireland is not part of GB - has been a separate country since 1922. Therefore the British NHS (established after 1922) and its effects on RIC don't apply to R of Ireland. Briitish statistics have absolutely no relevance here. And your post-WW2 arguments don't hold much water either since the Republic of Ireland was neutral in that conflict.

Finally - I do know the definition of a routine procedure. I find the whole concept of RIC to be horrific.
post #55 of 64
I think EDAardvark and the assertion on that site is right, it would make sense.

The Irish would not have had anything to do with a stupid procedure that the British would have tried to foist on them, even if every Brit was circumcised - and Frank states that it only got up to about 60% at most, the Irish would not have been about to copy them. The British were an occupying power and were violently (and apparently still are for the most part) hated, they would not have been copied or had their advice followed voluntarily; I'm sure someone would have written about forced circumcisions if they had taken place. This is also why Eire stayed Catholic.

British figures after 1922 would only include the North - although they, like Scotland, tend to be one of the rather more "separate" parts of the UK than say Wales , with their own laws, customs and traditions so it's entirely possible that they aren't included at all. There is a habit over here to separate the parts of the UK out into the three constituent countries when compiling stats, England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
post #56 of 64
:stupid American smilie

:

I thought that Ireland was under the GB health system too! Der.

Thanks for the information EDAardvark, good link. (Though their illustration is pretty pitiful! :LOL)
post #57 of 64
i just have to say, i have known men from every english speaking country in the world, and in my personal experience, i have met circed and intact from america, canada, England, australia, new zealand, and south africa.
i have never met a circumcised man from Ireland: northern ireland, or the country.
* i am not including scotland or wales. i don't know the status of the scottish or welsh men i know.
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDAardvark
Are you confused about the fact that the Republic of Ireland is not part of GB - has been a separate country since 1922. Therefore the British NHS (established after 1922) and its effects on RIC don't apply to R of Ireland. Briitish statistics have absolutely no relevance here. And your post-WW2 arguments don't hold much water either since the Republic of Ireland was neutral in that conflict.

You probably have a point there. I can't say that I have seen separate statistics for The Republic of Ireland. (and imagine, I'm of Irish descent!)




Frank
post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
that's funny, all of these celebs are not american! It's so unbelievable that this is the only country that does this

About that - the US isn't the only country... but it's pretty much the only Western country that hasn't mostly given it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision

The majority of males are circumcised in the following countries:

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Benin, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Niger, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Republic of the Congo, Samoa. Tonga, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, "Somaliland", South Africa, South Korea, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, the United States of America, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu and Yemen.
post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayon
Keanu Reeves- I heard he is Hawaiian, I wonder if in Hawaii it is as common with islanders???
His name is Hawaiian but he was born in Lebanon & is a Canadian citizen.
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